Was the Jailer the former Arbiter?

[Dzonathan]

They are literally angels. People like Uther who were paladins in life are prepared to become Kyrians and then ascend to become Spirit Healers. You know the thing priests turn into when they die. The guys that resurrect us. But they are creatures of death and not of the light. Ok. I didn't expect the lore to make sense at this point anyway.

Light has no monopoly on angelic aesthetic.
Uther was send to Bastion not because he was dedicated to Light but because he was a soul with strong dedication.
Said dedication was to be used to serve the Purpose.

If all of the Shadowlands serve death, then don't they ultimately all serve the jailor? Then why should we stop him? Why should the denizens of the realm of death want the help of living creatures (us) in order to stop death, when they all serve death?

Zovaal's ideas for death's purpose in the cosmic order are likely too radical and extreme and the rest of Shadowlands have decided they want none of it. That's why they locked his crazy ass in the Maw.

[username993720]

Personally I don't think Arbiter is native to Shadowlands, I think she's been placed there by some external force. She looks foreign to the place. Well that's just my impression, got no concrete proof.

I know what you mean... too robotic.
But, i guess you have to be one to judge souls, objectively.

It looks like someone/thing might've built her. She seems far too robotic to be an actual living thing. I wouldn't be surprised if the Jailer was related to her in some way tbh.
YMMV of course though

She's not alive.
None of the Shadowalnds' denizens are.

They aren't literal angels, though; just as the Val'kyr themselves aren't angels. People whose primary interest was service to a greater cause are drawn to becoming Kyrians - this can include Paladins, but also includes a wide swath of other classes, people, and professions. Character abilities don't translate 1:1 into lore, either. This isn't an issue with the lore not making sense, but more you not understanding the lore.

Valkyr are Valkyrie.
Kyrians are angels with a greek inspiration. Just like Bastion is a play on heaven. You can see the play on Archangel/Dark Archangel of the priest with Kyrians and Forsworn.

Just because they look like divine, winged humanoids does not mean they're angels.

It kinda does. Because Bastion is a play on heaven.
And before you mention the Valkyr, they are based on the nordic valkyrie and valhalla.
They were just given culture based on greece and use arcane because they are part of the Shadowlands.

[Rootsbum]

I wonder what we Will discover in Korthia.
The Arbiter looks alot like the Brokers somehow.
Was the Jailer the Arbiter and made a horrible deal that backfired?

[Powerogue]

I'm sure that's important somehow, it's a core detail to both their character designs. So that'd be my best guess. All we know is he used to be part of the pantheon, until he betrayed them (but he says the opposite) and they banished him to the Maw. So he must've had some non-Maw duty prior to that, right?

[Vampyrr]

I know what you mean... too robotic.
Valkyr are Valkyrie.
Kyrians are angels with a greek inspiration. Just like Bastion is a play on heaven. You can see the play on Archangel/Dark Archangel of the priest with Kyrians and Forsworn.



It kinda does. Because Bastion is a play on heaven.
And before you mention the Valkyr, they are based on the nordic valkyrie and valhalla.
They were just given culture based on greece and use arcane because they are part of the Shadowlands.

Modeled after angels maybe but they arent angels. Nothing about them and how they operate seems angelic to me really theres no paradise theres no serving a singular god. They serve order.

[username993720]

Modeled after angels maybe but they arent angels. Nothing about them and how they operate seems angelic to me really theres no paradise theres no serving a singular god. They serve order.

Ascending to get wings?
The point is, they don't have to be exactly the same to be considered WoW's angels. You wouldn't want them to repeat Diablo's angels, would you? That's WoW take on them.

[Chonar]

Yes. The entire Shadowlands story is just a warning tale of the dangers of automation, and people losing their jobs to robots.

[shoc]

No, your theory is wrong, because the Arbiter despises the Light. In fact, I believe Kael'thas Sunstrider was actually doomed to the Maw, until the Arbiter found out that he was torturing a fallen naaru, at which point she deemed him redeemable. The Arbiter despises both the Light and the Void because they pose serious threats to the Shadowlands, just look at Revendreth and how a large portion of it was scorched completely by the naaru Z'rali, or how in Bastion the Void came very close to wiping out ALL kyrians.

Also N'Zoth mentioned that the Light made a bargain with the enemy of all, and from his perspective Death is the enemy of all, which means that the Light would actually be an ally of the Jailer, and thus an enemy of the Arbiter.

This lore never made it out of the Beta and isn't currently in the game. And it was Sharth Voldoun who (in the beta) got Revendreth for torturing a Naaru, not Kael'thas. https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Sha...oun_(sinstone)

[Vampyrr]

Ascending to get wings?
The point is, they don't have to be exactly the same to be considered WoW's angels. You wouldn't want them to repeat Diablo's angels, would you? That's WoW take on them.

Eh agree to disagree

[ohwell]

I'm sure that's important somehow, it's a core detail to both their character designs. So that'd be my best guess. All we know is he used to be part of the pantheon, until he betrayed them (but he says the opposite) and they banished him to the Maw. So he must've had some non-Maw duty prior to that, right?

Not really considering everything indicates he was in charge of the Maw prior to it. He was simply forced to remain there. His name is the Jailer, not the Jailed which implies that he was in charge of the souls being sent to the Maw.

[craigw]

thats because the first ones, who created everything (most likely including specifically the arbiter, which would explain why shes basically no more than a robot), are straight up titan rip-offs

who created the first ones, if the first ones created everything?

[username993720]

Eh agree to disagree

As someone with the nickname Vampyrr, are Venthyr not vampires? Are Sylvar not fauns?

[Aliven]

He has hole in chest, she - the new Arbiter - has black orb near her chest. Maybe this his heart was like an artifact that acts like a black hole for souls, and when she usurped him, pried it from his chest and locked him away. Then assumed his role.

I can see this reveal being something that shows the overreach of the light, the current Arbiter has the same visual motif as a Naaru.

He did not even exist before 2019 so i say no.

[Daronokk]

The Jailer is a gigantic loser that was only conceived by Danuser's eboner for undead and one-upping the previous writers by making a scourgier Scourge and lich kingier Lich King. Danuser should be fired if Warcraft is to survive. At least Metzen did a good job.

[loras]

No, your theory is wrong, because the Arbiter despises the Light. In fact, I believe Kael'thas Sunstrider was actually doomed to the Maw, until the Arbiter found out that he was torturing a fallen naaru, at which point she deemed him redeemable. The Arbiter despises both the Light and the Void because they pose serious threats to the Shadowlands, just look at Revendreth and how a large portion of it was scorched completely by the naaru Z'rali, or how in Bastion the Void came very close to wiping out ALL kyrians.

Also N'Zoth mentioned that the Light made a bargain with the enemy of all, and from his perspective Death is the enemy of all, which means that the Light would actually be an ally of the Jailer, and thus an enemy of the Arbiter.

How are you certain that death is the enemy of all, especially to the void? They seem to have cooperated more than most.

Honestly from the context of that quote it may just as easily refer to order, since the void is in active conflict with titan constructs most of the time and views us as "saved" titan constructs.

Death is an inherent and natural part of the existence of the mortals he adresses with that quote, order is not.

Chaos is also a valid contender due to the Legion, but the Legion had recently been crippled, and Illidan (another chaos-touched powerhouse) had recently rejected the light, so it seems less likely.

Life too is natural, and corruptible / cooperative in giving birth to void tainted life, so that seems off as well.

So basically: Why would he be talking about death, since the void is basically immune to many death-related things, the void is basically destruction, a.k.a. greater death.

[Blackthorn94]

I do like the idea of the Jailer actually being wronged by the other leaders and imprisoned in the Maw and he has now twisted and became evil but I feel that is to nuanced for WOW and instead he is just going to have always been bad and the others had enough of him and locked him away which is a shame as it has the possibility to have a good story twist with him.

[Foolicious]

I'm sure that's important somehow, it's a core detail to both their character designs. So that'd be my best guess. All we know is he used to be part of the pantheon, until he betrayed them (but he says the opposite) and they banished him to the Maw. So he must've had some non-Maw duty prior to that, right?

It's also possible that the maw wasn't always what it is now. There is a high chance that it either was a realm like bastion before and got twisted when the eternal ones fought and imprisoned the jailer or that it existed beforehand and the jailer with his realm was banished which ripped his land apart.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

I am of the belief that Zovaal functioned as the original "judge of souls" for the Shadowlands before the Arbiter. Then he did something that was perceived as wrong (and a subsequent betrayal of the Shadowlands) by the other Eternal Ones, so they cast him into the Maw right after taking his power of soul judging. They then put that power into a glorified robot-like being (the current Arbiter) so as each soul can be judged objectively without bias... as I think Zovaal was maybe doing.


I've expressed this belief before and people have said the Arbiter's existence predates all memory ("even older than the Titans") but that is from one perception. A lot of Blizzard's recent lore explanations come through certain perspectives (the Titans for 'Warcraft Chronicle' and the Brokers for the new Shadowlands book) so this "lore" of the Arbiter can certainly be just what they know it to be.


And it gives Blizzard a built-in excuse -- a blank cheque even -- for changing/expanding lore as the story progresses.

[mingarrubia]

The Jailer is a gigantic loser

Nah, the Jailer is WoW’s Prometheus. We know now that he was punished for his thirst for knowledge. In the end he will be portrayed as some sort of heroic figure, a rebel against the tyranny of the gods.