1. #1

    Has Paladin feedback been read at all this entire beta/alpha? (holy & Ret)

    There has been countless voices about how bad holy & ret feel to play, voicing concerns every week and when i think maybe this beta build will be any different
    i am always left disappointed that there are 0 changes to either spec.

    But i see countless changes to other classes.

  2. #2
    My main is holy and I absolutely adore it, not really what are you talking about there. Maybe they could revert Blessing of Sacrifice to transferring damage instead of reducing flat damage and to having 2 charges in PvP with Blessed Hands like it was before, but that's it.

    In regards to Ret, there are a few changes but I agree it could get some love.
    We are too close from a release tho so I doubt we'll see anything substantial at this point.

  3. #3
    Justicar's Vengeance should be removed, and Cavalier should be made baseline at this point. No idea why they haven't. I'd also love to see Judgement go back to cleaving a nearby target, along with the 8s debuff it used to apply back in Legion that increased the holy damage of our spenders. Secondary wishes are to revert the aoe nerf on Wake of Ashes and give it a 30s CD (still capped at 5 targets) and slightly increase the range of Blade of Justice. I'd mention Long Arm of the Law, but god knows we are never getting it back.

    With that said, Retribution is already looking 10x better than it is in BfA. The Word of Glory nerf was an odd choice, but mostly everything else has been a welcome change imo.

  4. #4

    To the OP of this thread, to be completely honest, looking at all the beta content videos and playthroughs, holy will still retain a good solid spot in Mythic dungeons, Raids and even PVP. The major issue for holy has always been the singular school of magic and the lock out in PVP due to hard casting of spells and the limited mobility options. However S/L PVP on beta is just a pillar humping game.

    PVE wise holy is a strong healer with some very good synergy in terms of covenants, legendaries and core abilities. I have been playing Holy Paladin since TBC and to be completely honest, am really looking forward to the next expansion, holy paladins have seen a complete overhaul from the BFA playstyle. If you are comparing holy in Shadowlands to BFA, this is an unfair comparision because expectations are skewed due to the amount of "borrowed" power from Azertite traits and heart of Azeroth essences which lets face it were just soo good.

    You mention that there have been "zero" changes to both Ret and Holy, as a player with a paladin main, I can empathise with the need for new and interesting abilties and power for your favourite spec, however lets wait and see how Shadowlands plays out.

  5. #5
    I don’t think the feedback has been ignored, but rather Blizzard wants Ret to be something different. They want us to have crappy baseline damage and high burst. They want us to be kinda slow and rely on heals rather than defensive skills (which we do have in bubble and SOV). I’d rather it be different but I’m ok with us having weaknesses and strengths. I don’t want to be a rogue or a warrior, or I’d play those.

    But if we’re going to be this slow, self healing, burst damage spec, you can’t nerf those strengths without fixing a weakness. And right now I think Ret is in a good place in pvp, but those strengths don’t really map onto competitive PVE. So there needs to be PVE only buffs to sustained damage and low target cleave maybe for the trade off of less healing in pve. But the two are at odds right now. And even in pvp, healing is great...until dampening.
    Check out my Ret Paladin YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpj...XQlp6XtDv9Uk4Q


  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Celvira View Post
    With that said, Retribution is already looking 10x better than it is in BfA. The Word of Glory nerf was an odd choice, but mostly everything else has been a welcome change imo.
    What do you think is better? I think it plays like garbage without VoP procs, and the damage is not at all competitive (though this will probably change)

    I personally feel like the spec got a bunch of extra buttons (auras) that are annoying rather than useful. Retri aura instead of passive Retribution is just a direct nerf. Devo aura is neat but raids will always have a holy paladin for Aura Mastery, so it's not really a ret thing. Still no useful buffs (no battleshout, no demon hunter or monk damage debuff). I guess Blessing of Sacrifice is back?

    I don't pvp, but the toolkit does not feel meaningfully improved for high level m+ or raiding. I don't think it is worse, I just don't see why anyone thinks it is better. There are still precious few melee raid spots and many melee specs that bring something better to the table.

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