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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Asrialol View Post
    You mean without whiners on the official forums. They don't give a shit about MMOC or wowhead forums. Did you even see the response on official forums?

    Anyway. Beta. Blizzard tests something. People go batshit crazy and whine like little kids instead of just giving proper feedback. Blizzard reverts change. People still whine like little kids.

    Love this community. Quality people.
    Am I taking crazy pills or should the beta these days be in a state where they aren't making experiments anymore and just iterate on what is there, fix bugs and balance classes? They literally delayed the release of the game because they wouldn't be able to do that in time and then they go back to making bigger changes to systems again. That delay is only 4-6 weeks, not 3+ months! WTF are they doing...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    That tell you more about Asmongold than about game. If he wasn't faking it obviously.
    It tells me that Asmongold is sick and tired of what Blizzard is doing. It's not that he throws a fit because of this one thing. Rich Campbell didn't lose his mind and lost his job at Blizzard because he died once in a vision. It's the mass of all design decisions of the last few years that piled on until that one straw broke the camel's back.

  2. #42
    This isn't about whining. Blizzard outright said they are planning on more of these expansion specific systems in a box in future expansions.
    Classes and player power were going to be even more sidelined by these temporary progression systems that only work within new content.
    That isn't a trivial change and it has already been said by many folks that temporary progression systems are a bad idea.....

    Heck they had to delay the release partly because of that.

    They know a lot of people don't like these temporary progression systems and there are some that do.
    But according to that blue post they are going to try to get as much mileage as possible.

    And true a lot of things in the game like that but these system of systems are something that can literally make or break the game.


    I would rather they launched more expansions with more actual content and just one new ability or talent row (if any).
    14 dungeons and 8 traids at a minimum would be a lot of content especially if some of those dungeons are long and have multiple wings.
    And make real 3D zones again and not these Argus style 2.5D zones that they can pump out but had all sorts of jagged bogus terrain and no flying.
    Last edited by InfiniteCharger; 2020-10-09 at 09:00 AM.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Aurosh View Post
    I like that they revert things, but that whiny thing is crazy. I don't see how people can be so dramatic about such minor stuff.

    For what content outside of Shadowlands do you need Covenant spells? Duels? Clearing old raids? That's it.
    It's not minor. It's just more restrictions added to an already existing PILE OF RESTRICTIONS. At some point we're talking about the proverbial stick that broke the camel's back. "Play the game as we want you to" can only go so far before people get pissed.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harbour View Post
    This is the proof that we can help Blizzard understand what ideas are clearly bad, and thus help them to make the game better.



    Without "whiners" today on reddit, wowhead, mmo-champion and twitter we would have end up with this dumb pointless mechanic of Covenant use restriction.
    Criticism =/= Whine or complaining.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Harbour View Post
    This is the proof that we can help Blizzard understand what ideas are clearly bad, and thus help them to make the game better.



    Without "whiners" today on reddit, wowhead, mmo-champion and twitter we would have end up with this dumb pointless mechanic of Covenant use restriction.
    I like that they revert things, but that whiny thing is crazy. I don't see how people can be so dramatic about such minor stuff.

    For what content outside of Shadowlands do you need Covenant spells? Duels? Clearing old raids? That's it.

  6. #46
    The reason they don't always make a change to a system as a result of whining is because they want to test the silent majority before listening to the vocal minority.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Bullerick View Post
    The reason they don't always make a change to a system as a result of whining is because they want to test the silent majority before listening to the vocal minority.
    It does not need to go that far. It should be based on a simple question: is it fun for the players?

    For example: Is disabling legion artifacts and legendaries fun for the players? No. Then Why do it? Why not just keep them enabled while in Legion content instead?

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Wuusah View Post
    Am I taking crazy pills or should the beta these days be in a state where they aren't making experiments anymore and just iterate on what is there, fix bugs and balance classes? They literally delayed the release of the game because they wouldn't be able to do that in time and then they go back to making bigger changes to systems again. That delay is only 4-6 weeks, not 3+ months! WTF are they doing...



    It tells me that Asmongold is sick and tired of what Blizzard is doing. It's not that he throws a fit because of this one thing. Rich Campbell didn't lose his mind and lost his job at Blizzard because he died once in a vision. It's the mass of all design decisions of the last few years that piled on until that one straw broke the camel's back.
    I'm sure this change was something that required a ton of work, and since they (they being all the developers, since they don't work on individual things and whatnot) spent time doing this, they (again, all developers) have a LOT less time on iterating on balance tuning and whatnot.

    You know, changing what area a spell can be used in is extremely simple work. This was in no way, at all, a "big" change.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by facefist View Post
    Love this post.

    First passive-aggressive towards the OP without actually providing anything useful. Continues to say people go batshit crazy and call people little kids who whine.

    Ends up with bashing the community and people within it because they whine. Shortly after being a whining little kid himself. Quality post.
    Ouch, someone felt offended.
    Hi

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Asrialol View Post
    I'm sure this change was something that required a ton of work, and since they (they being all the developers, since they don't work on individual things and whatnot) spent time doing this, they (again, all developers) have a LOT less time on iterating on balance tuning and whatnot.

    You know, changing what area a spell can be used in is extremely simple work. This was in no way, at all, a "big" change.
    You are a fool if you think that change just happened casually with one developer just putting in a new skill restriction. Changes like these happen after many meetings where this needs to be discussed first. Welcome to corporate bloat, where you need meetings to plan meetings.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Asrialol View Post
    They don't give a shit about MMOC or wowhead forums.
    Not sure why you say this. Ion himself has linked to MMOC forums on his Twitter.

    https://twitter.com/watcherdev/statu...88507806576640

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Harbour View Post
    This is the proof that we can help Blizzard understand what ideas are clearly bad, and thus help them to make the game better.



    Without "whiners" today on reddit, wowhead, mmo-champion and twitter we would have end up with this dumb pointless mechanic of Covenant use restriction.
    There is a thread with over 1000 pages asking for high elves. Please explain.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by sykoex View Post
    Not sure why you say this. Ion himself has linked to MMOC forums on his Twitter.

    https://twitter.com/watcherdev/statu...88507806576640
    Did you just link a post from nearly 7 years ago? Or am I reading that wrong?

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harbour View Post
    This is the proof that we can help Blizzard understand what ideas are clearly bad, and thus help them to make the game better.



    Without "whiners" today on reddit, wowhead, mmo-champion and twitter we would have end up with this dumb pointless mechanic of Covenant use restriction.
    Yet here we are and conduits are still a thing. This "change" might as well have been a ruse just so they could go back on something to show us that they are willing to make changes without touching the features people hate the most. It's as if they have some sort of obsession over some of the more fucked up designs they have come up with.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Harbour View Post
    This is the proof that we can help Blizzard understand what ideas are clearly bad, and thus help them to make the game better.



    Without "whiners" today on reddit, wowhead, mmo-champion and twitter we would have end up with this dumb pointless mechanic of Covenant use restriction.
    More players have complained more vehemently about more important issues for a much longer time and Blizzard has done nothing.

    With this issue they didn't really feel too strongly about it in the first place, so they thought "might as well give it to them, they'll applaud us for having listened". It makes people forget about the mess that Shadowlands is.

  14. #54
    Change the title to proof that people should read first, the very original post reads , this may be unintended

  15. #55
    ITT: People that believe giving feedback about the game = whining.

  16. #56
    Itt : people that believe that whining without reading the full post = feedback

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Asrialol View Post

    Ouch, someone felt offended.
    The one being you obviously, as you felt the need to reply while knowing I was right If you don't see the childish rant in your original post, then that's not on me

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by facefist View Post
    The one being you obviously, as you felt the need to reply while knowing I was right If you don't see the childish rant in your original post, then that's not on me
    Ah, the "you replied thus I am right" argument. You felt the need to reply as well.

    Also, I disagree.
    Hi

  19. #59
    I think almost everyone agrees that players providing feedback is a good thing.

    It's not the existence of feedback that is questionable, but the way it should be given. Too many people feel like they are entitled to be toxic about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aurosh View Post
    I like that they revert things, but that whiny thing is crazy. I don't see how people can be so dramatic about such minor stuff.

    For what content outside of Shadowlands do you need Covenant spells? Duels? Clearing old raids? That's it.
    For you it may be minor. For me it's not. I spend multiple hours a day doing old content, especially during times when the new content is over / complete for the most part. Playing an incomplete class for all those hours would just suck.
    Last edited by Azerate; 2020-10-09 at 01:18 PM.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Problem is - the majority of the time the vocal minority convince Blizzard to do something which is clearly bad.

    If Blizzard reverted to the original goal from Vanilla of just designing interesting games, and not worry so much about absolute perfect homogenisation that some players want - the game would be far more fun.
    The game would be absolutely not fun if it were balanced today as horribly as it was in Classic.

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