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  1. #81
    The Patient BrintoSFJ's Avatar
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    Blehhh... yet again, world lore gets shafted just to accommodate gameplay. How about we completely remove lore from the game and turn it into pure monster grinding and pvp instance game? If world lore is just an excuse to give more power to players, there is no reason for it to exist. You can just add new system to the game without any lore or whatsoever.

    Next, allow players to join all covenant and swap between covenant soulbinds and abilities at will. There is no need for this restriction too. More people are complaining about this than they are complaining about the location restriction. Just do it!
    Moderators on this site are, to put it nicely, morons. They believe any opinion contrary to popular ones are either trolling or flaming or baiting. They can not comprehend the fact that there can be people who would utterly detest what they like or million others like. Well, it is their site and their "Authoretaeh" but they are morons nonetheless.

  2. #82
    doesnt change the fact that theyre taking 1 step forward 3 steps backwards. and that its worrying that blizz even had the thought that it would be a good idea.

  3. #83
    They really should have made World of Starcraft , such a missed opportunity

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    Quote Originally Posted by mojusk View Post
    doesnt change the fact that theyre taking 1 step forward 3 steps backwards. and that its worrying that blizz even had the thought that it would be a good idea.
    YEah , all these issues, them coming out with a obvious stupid decision has now caused me to decide to sit out SL for a long time. Maybe after 2-3 patches I might come back if the player feedback is good. I dont have faith in Blizzard anymore to put out a quality product. We will see but SL is shaping up to be worse than BFA and thats saying something

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrintoSFJ View Post
    Blehhh... yet again, world lore gets shafted just to accommodate gameplay. How about we completely remove lore from the game and turn it into pure monster grinding and pvp instance game? If world lore is just an excuse to give more power to players, there is no reason for it to exist. You can just add new system to the game without any lore or whatsoever.

    Next, allow players to join all covenant and swap between covenant soulbinds and abilities at will. There is no need for this restriction too. More people are complaining about this than they are complaining about the location restriction. Just do it!
    Very very few people really care about the lore to the point they would be willing to give up player power in game
    Non nobis Domine, non nobis, sed nomini tuo da gloriam

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Ohsorry View Post
    We’re on a roll, guys!

    Now, what else do the people want changed?
    My needs are simple ...

    1 - Go back to the days where gear was simple and meaningful by way of scarcity or difficulty of obtaining it.
    2 - Put all that extra dev time into more playable content.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Dystemper View Post
    Very very few people really care about the lore to the point they would be willing to give up player power in game
    Tbh, I just want the game to work and be fun. Player power isn't as important to me as that. To me part of the game working is things being balanced and that is the issue at hand.

  6. #86
    Legendary! Frolk's Avatar
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    Who ever came up with the idea in the first place should be removed from making future decisions like this, cause they are too disconnected from the playerbase and cant be trusted to make good changes.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Dystemper View Post
    They really should have made World of Starcraft , such a missed opportunity

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    YEah , all these issues, them coming out with a obvious stupid decision has now caused me to decide to sit out SL for a long time. Maybe after 2-3 patches I might come back if the player feedback is good. I dont have faith in Blizzard anymore to put out a quality product. We will see but SL is shaping up to be worse than BFA and thats saying something

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    Very very few people really care about the lore to the point they would be willing to give up player power in game
    agreed, espicially since they people who wouldve made world of starcrfat was gonna be the jeff kaplan and his team, the og devs

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    Any arguments for yes, more abilities every expansion without losing it does not mean button bloat or are you just ranting about my facts, you don't like?
    You don't have facts. I'm just tired of having to say the same thing. Go to one of the threads on the topic and learn.
    Upgrading existing abilities or a design like the pvp abilities where you add to the pool and select a limited amount or yes even the old pruning useless abilities are all better systems.
    You also need 15+ new abilities per expansion to reach 50 abilities in 3 expansions mr facts.

    Aka stop the gullability. WoW is the only mmo using the trash rental power system and no one in their right mind likes it.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Dystemper View Post
    There will never be a WOW 2. the MMO genre is stagnant and they dont have the creative ability to do such a thing considering it would be a 5-10 year development
    This. Casuals switched to mobile/session type games.

  10. #90
    Going by Blizzard's own logic, if this actually played out in the long term, when you left the content of one expansion, abilities would stop working.
    Then, depending on what part of the old content you went into, you would have to somehow re-enable those old systems just for that content. And so forth and so on as you moved around various content areas. It sounds absolutely atrocious. Drop covenants to go into BFA and pick up Azerite. Drop Azerite to go into Legion and pick up your legendary. Making these systems last only for one expansion makes no sense. Now they have to rebalance everything all over again for the next expansion and whatever new iteration of systems they are going to make.

    And because they spend all of their time designing these systems of systems they give us less content in terms of dungeons and raids.
    But instead give us half baked zones full of boring world quest daily grinds.... Somehow I cant believe they think this is good for the long term.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Inukashi View Post
    Nice, now revert the conduit change and make it something you have to think about again and add the possibility to pick a second covenant for pvp.

    Can't be too hard to put four ambassadors into oribos "Yeah, we know you are Venthyr in PvE, but wanna wear a Kyrian dress in Arena and BG?" where you can level up your Kyrian relations for extra pvp rewards like a flag on your back or stuff like this.
    ummmmmm. No thanks. Please don't tell me you were one of those who wanted and liked when you couldn't switch between conduits for once a week.
    Shadow deserves nothing, the same as Fire Mages.

  12. #92
    This entire BS could be resolved if Blizzard would simply scrap borrowed power entirely.

    I want MY BASE CLASS AND SPEC to feel great. I don't want that to come from some external system.

    I've played a Rogue for 16 years. I am extremely invested in the Rogue class. I don't give a fuck about Kyrian, Necrolord, or any other covenant. I flat out do not care.

    It's a shit system designed to sell boxes to expansion tourists who will quit after 2-3 months anyway.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Gamevizier View Post
    I too felt weird when Sylvanas used her Shadowlands abilities on Saurfang by the Orgrimmar gates.
    Maybe cause I just woke up but I found this hilarious; well played.

    But as a few others have already said, I would agree that the obvious solution is to stop with the borrowed power nonsense.

  14. #94
    I wish they kept it. But unfortunately Asmongold and his army seem to have Blizzard by the throat with his cancel culture mob.

  15. #95
    Good move... yeah. Still leaves that bitter taste in mouth. Because it is the same as some game dev company being glorified these days for simply stating that their game will not have microstransactaions. Basically celebrating something that should be the standard.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    You don't have facts.
    If they're going to give us new abilities, then it is a fact that without some mechanism for removing an equal number of abilities, ability bloat will be a thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    I'm just tired of having to say the same thing. Go to one of the threads on the topic and learn.
    Except that the things that people keep echoing on the subject of "rental powers" are also shitty arguments with basically zero merit, so it doesn't help to convince me that you actually have a decent argument yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    Upgrading existing abilities or a design like the pvp abilities where you add to the pool and select a limited amount or yes even the old pruning useless abilities are all better systems.
    I disagree. What I like about "rental powers" is that they allow us to immerse ourselves in a new and interesting set of abilities that are tied to the story. WoW is all about progression, and the systems introduced in Legion and BfA have genuinely felt like character progression while at the same time retaining that sense of immersion. The use of "rental powers" essentially gives us the opportunity to start with a clean slate (progression wise) with each new expansion which in turn opens up the possibility of interesting and cool things.

    And honestly, once the new expansion arrives, and I start with progressing a new system, I don't even really notice the loss of the old one, so I really struggle to take the complaints about the feelings of loss that others claim to have when they lose those rental systems. Sure, I am going to miss having insane corruption procs when they disappear, but I am totally confident that I'll get over it as soon as I have new and interesting stuff to keep me busy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    WoW is the only mmo using the trash rental power system and no one in their right mind likes it.
    Sorry buddy, but when you take that kind of condescending approach (ie essentially calling everyone who disagrees with you an idiot, just without using the kind of phrasing that will earn you an infraction) - especially given the conspicuous lack of backing up your own assertions - it just makes you look like the silly one. Apart from anything else, berating the market leader/most successful MMO out there for taking a different approach to the followers is pretty much nonsensical.

    The "rental power" system makes a lot of sense and in my experience it works well. Yes, of course there is a small glitch when one transitions from the end of an expansion to the start of the next, but I honestly don't believe that is even avoidable. Importantly, these "rental powers" open up the possibility of starting with the proverbial fresh slate, which is necessary to keep the game fresh and engaging.
    Last edited by Raelbo; 2020-10-09 at 02:27 PM.

  17. #97
    Pit Lord Mrbleedinggums's Avatar
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    I wonder if people would have bitched this much about Garrison abilities as well. HOW DARE YOU SAY I CANNOT CALL IN AN ARTILLERY STRIKE FROM TALADOR WHEN I'M FARMING IN UN'GORO CRATER!!!

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    You don't have facts. I'm just tired of having to say the same thing. Go to one of the threads on the topic and learn.
    Upgrading existing abilities or a design like the pvp abilities where you add to the pool and select a limited amount or yes even the old pruning useless abilities are all better systems.
    You also need 15+ new abilities per expansion to reach 50 abilities in 3 expansions mr facts.

    Aka stop the gullability. WoW is the only mmo using the trash rental power system and no one in their right mind likes it.
    So you suggest that pruning every other year is better than with every expansion? Did you even think about this?

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathiest View Post
    when the following expansion comes out (yes, there will be one)

    Shadowlands isn't even out, worst then that it's release date got pushed back and here they are already talking about another expansion?
    You do know that Blizzard has mentioned, more than once in the past, that while they're working on a new expansion, they're also already starting to work on the next expansion after that.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    I also did a Bard thing! Questions, comments and ideas, all welcome!

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    If they're going to give us new abilities, then it is a fact that without some mechanism for removing an equal number of abilities, ability bloat will be a thing.



    Except that the things that people keep echoing on the subject of "rental powers" are also shitty arguments with basically zero merit, so it doesn't help to convince me that you actually have a decent argument yourself.



    I disagree. What I like about "rental powers" is that they allow us to immerse ourselves in a new and interesting set of abilities that are tied to the story. WoW is all about progression, and the systems introduced in Legion and BfA have genuinely felt like character progression while at the same time retaining that sense of immersion. The use of "rental powers" essentially gives us the opportunity to start with a clean slate (progression wise) with each new expansion which in turn opens up the possibility of interesting and cool things.

    And honestly, once the new expansion arrives, and I start with progressing a new system, I don't even really notice the loss of the old one, so I really struggle to take the complaints about the feelings of loss that others claim to have when they lose those rental systems. Sure, I am going to miss having insane corruption procs when they disappear, but I am totally confident that I'll get over it as soon as I have new and interesting stuff to keep me busy.



    Sorry buddy, but when you take that kind of condescending approach (ie essentially calling everyone who disagrees with you an idiot, just without using the kind of phrasing that will earn you an infraction) - especially given the conspicuous lack of backing up your own assertions - it just makes you look like the silly one. Apart from anything else, berating the market leader/most successful MMO out there for taking a different approach to the followers is pretty much nonsensical.

    The "rental power" system makes a lot of sense and in my experience it works well. Yes, of course there is a small glitch when one transitions from the end of an expansion to the start of the next, but I honestly don't believe that is even avoidable. Importantly, these "rental powers" open up the possibility of starting with the proverbial fresh slate, which is necessary to keep the game fresh and engaging.
    In bold. Exactly, and that is what rental powers don't deliver cause your progression is rudely removed from you at the end of the expansion like nothing happened. You contradict yourself. Your immersion should be in your class, not some random expansion made up thing that goes away as easily as it arrived. Covenants? Will all be gone next expansion. No more ability, no more conduits, no more soulbind. Everything will be gone. The skills you gained, the progress you made, all gone, all progression removed. How is that progression? It's "side"gression at best.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    So you suggest that pruning every other year is better than with every expansion? Did you even think about this?
    Again with the exaggerations. You do get that proves me right, yeah? Pruning every year huh? When has that ever happened? First it's you get 50 abilities in 3 expansions and then you prune abilities every year. Deary me...
    Do you not realize that the fact you evoke exaggeration is a hint that it is not nearly as bad as you paint it?

    First, the pace at which we gain abilities is something that we have not determined. You may only get one per expansion, then you only need to prune every 10 expansions, maybe not even so. So, yes, i'm totally fine with pruning as a method. Only useless abilities get removed.
    As i told you, you can just upgrade existing abilities, or just slowly add a new column to the talent trees. Can mix all of these. The problem you paint is not nearly the problem you think it is. Only lack of imagination and incompetence make it a problem.

    I've said this before, but people need to stop thinking in infinity. There will be a limit to WoW expansions. Eventually they will stop making them. If i told you there are 3 more expansions in the pipe and then that's it, would you see this fabled "bloat" as a problem? Stop thinking in infinites. WoW isn't gonna last forever. We need to be having fun now, not worry about an infinity that will not happen. We need to worry about the now.
    Last edited by Swnem; 2020-10-09 at 02:46 PM.

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