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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by BraveNewWorld View Post
    Not entirely true.

    I main bear, and the recent frenzy regen buff on PTR, added with its associated conduit on the beta, stacking mastery + vers, I could in practice heal for 60+% of my hp with one cast of FR. That's a crazy amount of healing. Now add the conduit that auto casts a FR when you drop below 25%.
    Whoa, whoa! Hold up! You mean they're not nerfing frenzied regen into the ground at the start of the xpac like they have at the beginning of every one since it was added? Why would they break such a sacred tradition?
    The most difficult thing for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back. The second most is to receive something they didn't want or ask for and be grateful for it, not immediately demand what they wanted instead.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Whoa, whoa! Hold up! You mean they're not nerfing frenzied regen into the ground at the start of the xpac like they have at the beginning of every one since it was added? Why would they break such a sacred tradition?
    Blizzard is merciful towards all 7 of the remaining Guardian Druid mains.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Better View Post
    I personally enjoyed Legion tanking, where tanks were self sufficient. It felt good, and gratifying being a tank knowing that you were the reason you were alive. The healers still had 4 players (minimum) to worry about, and you got to have good gameplay. When tanks don't deal good damage, can only mitigate damage, particularly in fights where damage is constant and not spread out (Jaina at-content would be an example), only really position the boss, and taunt swap tanking feels dull.

    We're a role that some people want to force into some weird little box where all we do is taunt, and get healed by healers, which may have worked 10-15 years ago, but I for one enjoy my decisions actually mattering beyond positioning. Which is usually figured out in the first week or 2 of a raid tier.
    They do, and this is why active mitigation exists. People just tend to forget what not being overgeared looks like. Incoming tank damage and healing were both a bit much in Legion.

    I don't disagree with you though, tanking is dull in the simple fights. That's true for every role, though, tbf. Not everyone can lead the dance all the time.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Elbob View Post
    pretty much back to doing 30-40% of a dps while moving raid bosses on rails for tanks. Tanks once again in SL have little impact on their own hp bars except for dk i guess. I do love just being a meat shield that moves the boss from set location to set location while doing almost no damage or control on my survivability.

    Edit: atleast our aoe dps is ok for mythic+ i just hate the state of tanks in raid, its boring AF and has almost no impact assuming you can handle the basic rotation.
    why should they? isn't that a healers job?

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by SkagenRora View Post
    Gonna suck big time to lose beam of devestation, that was one of the most fun things ever.
    i found thanking quite fun in Shadowlands though.
    I'm sure you'll get some outrageous stuff at the end of that expansion as well.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Scathan View Post
    why should they? isn't that a healers job?
    The current M+ meta has healers focusing mostly on DPSing. Tanks are pretty self-sufficient and so is most DPS. Healing is in a really weird place right now. I did a Freehold 17 recently where the healer died at 95% on the shark boss and we still killed it without any difficulty.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Razorice View Post
    Well, I just want Vengeance back.
    Vengeance was unhealthy gameplay 100%, I say this as a tank. Like I had a blast doing insane damage but a mechanic that promotes actions like eating too many tank debuffs to the point you are nearly getting 1 shot or sitting to intentionally get crit or standing in aoes just to stack your veng are all just not good design. To make a role satisfying to play your actions need to feel rewarding when used correctly and nothing about the(Shadowlands) tank meta feels rewarding. You won't feel noticable differences in your survivability, and you won't see great spikes in damage done.

    But this is why I think tank damage should be 60-75% of a dps, if people think this is competitive we clearly aren't playing the same game. In what world would 1 dps doing 2/3rds the damage of another be considered competitive? Also I don't think tanks shouldn't need healers but they should be their own primary contributor to self survivability regardless if thats via self healing/abosrbs or mitigation. I think WoD had it closest to being right when it came to tank survivability. Resolve(i think that was the name) scaled with incoming damage but only scaled your self healing. Healers couldn't ignore you but you were responsible for staying healthy most of the time.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Hellscream View Post
    My Death Knight is gonna be just as fun to tank as with or without Twilight Devastation.

    Yeah its fun seeing a murder laser beam crit for 500k but it functionally does nothing for my gameplay as a tank.
    If Twilight Devastation did nothing for your gameplay on Blood DK you've been doing it wrong.

    DK is the perfect tank for T.Dev since you can actively use DG and Gorefiend's to hit every mob twice or even three times with proper play.

    I once finished a 20 King's Rest with Rank 8 T.Dev and it doing 80% of my damage.

    Hate to see it go, but I love to see it leave.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Scathan View Post
    why should they? isn't that a healers job?
    so what is the tanks job then? Generate threat? Move the boss from planned location 1 to planned location 2?
    Whats the reward structure? What makes a good tank vs a bad tank? What makes tanking fun to play... and getting hit in the face over and over isn't really an answer here.
    -Threat is a joke and not a real mechanic for a raid with evenly geared tanks/dps
    -Moving bosses is pre-planned and not skill related(if required at all which many fights don't)

    I can answer all of those questions for a dps or healer but with the SL/BFA tank structure I can not. I suppose its worth noting I'm talking about players who are capable of understanding and performing the core mechanics of their class/role. We've all seen the tank that never uses Sotr/SB/DS and gets smushed before, I'm talking about ways of standing out beyond knowing your abc's.

  10. #50
    Were gonna be so weak now. 30-40% of our damage, but worst is single target proc is RIP. Now we will do like 20k single target dmg...
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  11. #51
    Next week, I'm gonna take my OP as fuck protection pala into bgs and farm marks for the warfront gear transmogs which will become available at the pvp vendor.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiev View Post
    I feel like many people who are complaining about tanks don't really want to tank. They just want to be a very durable DPS.
    Could not say it better!

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Hellscream View Post
    My Death Knight is gonna be just as fun to tank as with or without Twilight Devastation.

    Yeah its fun seeing a murder laser beam crit for 500k but it functionally does nothing for my gameplay as a tank.
    Exactly mate, Thread closed.

  14. #54
    Speak for yourself, i cant wait to be rid of corruptions

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by SkagenRora View Post
    Gonna suck big time to lose beam of devestation, that was one of the most fun things ever.
    Yeah - it is going to really suck, us DPS having a reason to be in groups again.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Demsi View Post
    Speak for yourself, i cant wait to be rid of corruptions
    I never benefited from them really, tried Infinite Stars, Tendrils and Twilight - never got over 1-2% of my dps on them.

    So I just went for pure stat increases - boring as hell, meanwhile all the melee classes including tanks were doing 20% corruption damage.

    Due to COVID-19, Germany is running out of sausages and cheese.
    The government considers this to be the Wurst Käse scenario

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Elbob View Post
    pretty much back to doing 30-40% of a dps while moving raid bosses on rails for tanks. Tanks once again in SL have little impact on their own hp bars except for dk i guess. I do love just being a meat shield that moves the boss from set location to set location while doing almost no damage or control on my survivability.

    Edit: atleast our aoe dps is ok for mythic+ i just hate the state of tanks in raid, its boring AF and has almost no impact assuming you can handle the basic rotation.
    Good. Fucking finally. Active mitigation and self healing were a mistake.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Elbob View Post
    I never once said I thought tanks should out dps dps, and tank self healing is also known as mitigation.
    What is my reward as a tank of performing well? For having a clean rotation? .... the answer is nothing because the AM model is a joke and barely punishes you for doing completely wrong.

    I see no problem with tanks doing 60-80% of a dps on a single target if they are the active tank (via procs or something, obviously vengeance missed the mark in MoP) and tank self healing doesnt mean anything as a solo stat unless they are also prevent as much dmg as the tanks the mitigate instead of self heal. So what about all of that is entitled? Wanting to have an impact on the raid like both other roles do?
    The boss dying and getting loot is your reward, same as for everyone else.

  17. #57
    Pre-patch is always my least favorite part of any expansion because it's the time when everything stops being fun. The things I've been fairly invested in like raiding (working on mythic Nzoth) or doing my weekly keys, pre-patch basically signals the end of it. It's the time of the expansion when we kinda go into limbo just waiting for the next expansion, and while I am hyped to see Shadowlands, the month or so leading up to it will be pretty dull.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by SkagenRora View Post
    Gonna suck big time to lose beam of devestation, that was one of the most fun things ever.
    Good riddance! Corruptions are the single worst thing ever to be added to wow. Cant express enough how happy I am seeing it go.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zantera View Post
    Pre-patch is always my least favorite part of any expansion because it's the time when everything stops being fun. The things I've been fairly invested in like raiding (working on mythic Nzoth) or doing my weekly keys, pre-patch basically signals the end of it. It's the time of the expansion when we kinda go into limbo just waiting for the next expansion, and while I am hyped to see Shadowlands, the month or so leading up to it will be pretty dull.
    This prepatch especially is going to be SUPER rough because of the balance of SLands at lvl 50 right now, and not to mention most people were used to all these high crits or gushing or whatever to make all of their characters feeling super powerful are literally losing most of it.

    I have to agree fully with you, this prepatch more than ever is going to feel SUPER rough - hopefully the game comes fast and everyone can dive back in because it's going to be a LONG TIME of me just waiting to play the next xpac (sometimes I go for achieves during this time period etc)

  20. #60
    Are the essence abilities going away? Because I could still use mine on the PTR.

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