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  1. #81

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by ymirsson View Post
    Let's face it, your generalisations aren't worth a penny.
    Well if you prefer the old way then there is classic WoW.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Asrialol View Post
    The shortage of tanks is here for several reasons, one of them being most people don't want the responsibility, and also the abuse tanks tend to get in pugs. Lots of threads about this of you'd bother looking into it.
    Pretty much. I'm fine with tanking for guildies. If one of them stands in fire and dies, or pulls half the instance, it isn't my fault when we wipe.

    In a pug, anything wrong done by DPS is pretty much blamed on the tank, or if not the tank, the healer, even if the DPS stands in bad, or pulls the next three groups ahead of the one we're fighting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    Agreed. That's pretty high on my list of 'things to be excited about on patch day' as well.
    Yeah, I'll be happy to see that crap go. When I know other people are waiting on the quest mob, I tag it with something small, not something that's going to wipe it out before anyone else can tag. But if there's a DH there, better get it tagged quick, before the DH shows off his little epeen and blows it up in one shot. Reminds me of the little boys squealing the tires to impress the girls. They're not impressing the girls, but they think they are...

  4. #84
    Im glad corruption and essences going away. What is fun when tank outdpsing you by a simple proc. Or focusing lens doing more dmg in single shot then your whole aoe rotation and cd's managing.

  5. #85
    Brewmaster Tiev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vidhjerta View Post
    Lets face it, nobody thinks its fun only to be a meatshield and dont do any damage but move the boss around while using mitigation abilities.
    Been a tank since Vanilla.

    Prot Warrior in classic, Prot Warrior in TBC, Prot Warrior in Wrath, Prot Warrior in Cata, Prot Warrior in MoP, Prot Warrior in Draenor, Mage at first then Prot Warrior in Legion. The only expansion I havent raided is in BFA because I initially rolled a rogue and was bored out of my mind, then tried a Prot Paladin, which I didn't quite like but by then I felt it was too late to roll something else, with all the AP I would have missed out and quit.

    I find dpsing boring.

    (except mages. For whatever reason I like mage dps, all specs).

  6. #86
    Brewmaster Nalam the Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragi View Post
    Im glad corruption and essences going away. What is fun when tank outdpsing you by a simple proc. Or focusing lens doing more dmg in single shot then your whole aoe rotation and cd's managing.
    That is what is fun with it tho.

    Complexity, Difficulty & Struggle is the enemy of fun, and only leads to people ”Weeding out the weak” with their warcraft log requirements, That’s why we need these To help leviate the burden of ”Doing things properly” and just have dmg proccs to make up for it.

    Awsome signature and avatar made by Kuragalolz

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    That's nonsense, because tanks have an impact on the raid - knowledge of boss mechanics that are managed by tanks are often the single biggest 'get it right or wipe' aspect of a given boss fight. Don't turn Wrathion properly? Your whole raid eats his breath weapon and dies. Don't manage Psychus properly on N'zoth? Stacks drop off and you wipe. Etc, etc.

    So the idea that you can only have an 'impact' if you have something like Twilight Devastation is dumb.
    Find where I said that tanks only have impact if they have twilight dev, I'll wait. You argument is more of the same shit that applies to every role in the raid with no tank specific reward structure. Knowledge of mechanics is on EVERYONE and at mythic raiding levels the tank mechanics are deadly just like the the dps/healer mechanics. They ALL need to be handled correctly. Watch I can pull random dps mechanics from the same fights.
    Don't get out of wrathion with the aoe, wipe the raid, don't soak your scale... wipe the raid.
    Don't kill synapses on time, reset stacks and wipe the raid. These are grp responsibilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    Conducting the fight in a manner that helps everyone , maintaining threat when you have meter driven morons for dps, and ensuring that everyone work cohesively to defeat a given enemy. What additional 'reward' do you think is required here?

    Tanking is fun when all these things happen, not sure what else to say about it. Much like healing, the spec isn't going to be appealing to everyone.

    At least half the tanks in this game do so solely because it's extremely advantageous when pugging.
    -Everyone's responsibility, dps pop cds at the right time and focus the right targets, healers triage as needed, tanks move bosses. How is this tank specific?
    -Threat gen is not a skill thing its a floor thing, if this is the reward structure for tanks i guess every frost mage that can find frost bolt is also doing it perfect.
    -making sure the everyone is doing things cohesively is the RL's job, not tank specfiic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thelyron View Post
    Good. Fucking finally. Active mitigation and self healing were a mistake.

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    The boss dying and getting loot is your reward, same as for everyone else.
    Yeah this post is like a giant meme. Do you also think healers should lose their damage buttons and dps should lose all the self healing they have gained over the years? The game has grown up since cata and wants gameplay to feel rewarding. Buttons to be impactful.

    Except the other roles have clear indicators of strong-maximized play. Finding ways to optimize cds or movements/mechanics will result in quicker kills, or less healers needed and that results in measured parses that show the efficiency of those roles

  8. #88
    No price is too high to get rid of that garbage system.
    Censorship apologists deserve [REDACTED]

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by SkagenRora View Post
    Gonna suck big time to lose beam of devestation, that was one of the most fun things ever.
    is this sarcasm? I hate corruption.. lol. getting a beam just meant you did a lot of dmg randomly. It didnt add any form of fun factor to the game at all for me.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vidhjerta View Post
    Lets face it, nobody thinks its fun only to be a meatshield and dont do any damage but move the boss around while using mitigation abilities.
    I do though. I'm a Tank so I can make sure the rest can do their damage with as little issues as possible. I go for max mitigation so the Healers can focus on me less and instead use their mana to heal up from unavoidable/raid damage. My job is being a meat shield, not another dps. If I want to play dps I'll play a dps spec. DPS mains that play their Tank like a DPS often are the worst ones to play with as a Healer.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Artale View Post
    I do though. I'm a Tank so I can make sure the rest can do their damage with as little issues as possible. I go for max mitigation so the Healers can focus on me less and instead use their mana to heal up from unavoidable/raid damage. My job is being a meat shield, not another dps. If I want to play dps I'll play a dps spec. DPS mains that play their Tank like a DPS often are the worst ones to play with as a Healer.
    So you dont think its fun at all to be able to help the group meet the damage requirement on top of doing the tanking-job?

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    For us tanks who played through MoP, TD was just a fun throwback to those times, back when you could top DPS in a raid, in C-modes, didn't even need any external heals!

    MoP was easily the best expansion for tanks.
    why? cuz of vengeance? or whatever it was called. i guess.. but i hated mop on the whole. Lame raids except ToT, Boring dungeons, farmville... etc the whole expansion just blew to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tomten View Post
    Vengeance was the best thing to ever happen to tanks and it has been ridiculously shitty after mop.
    And i'm willing to bet, everyone who complains "hurr durr tanks do to much dps" are just incredibly shitty at being a dps. That's all it is.
    too bad everything else about the expansion blew...

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Subrias View Post
    is this sarcasm? I hate corruption.. lol. getting a beam just meant you did a lot of dmg randomly. It didnt add any form of fun factor to the game at all for me.
    DmG is what’s fun tho.

    The worst thing about tanking has always been the low dmg, So it was very fun that they added a thing that procced for an insane amount of dmg.

    But i only M+ tank

  14. #94
    Herald of the Titans Jazzhands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vidhjerta View Post
    So you dont think its fun at all to be able to help the group meet the damage requirement on top of doing the tanking-job?
    You don't seem to understand, when there's even the slightest expectation of DPS it sets a bar most people can't meet, why set expectations when you can just stand there soaking damage and healing while occasionally moving and then get loot?

  15. #95
    losing devastation is the last thing im worried about.

    much more worried about the class changes. the old abilities coming back are quite lacklustre, nicer for the other specs. and the talent reshuffle is dissapointing to say the least, basically removing every big change from the last 4 years. some talents getting the nerfbat and im worried they are nerfed in the context of corruption, not for a non corruption world.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzhands View Post
    You don't seem to understand, when there's even the slightest expectation of DPS it sets a bar most people can't meet, why set expectations when you can just stand there soaking damage and healing while occasionally moving and then get loot?
    That depends on the content you're doing I guess.

  17. #97
    Field Marshal Artale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vidhjerta View Post
    So you dont think its fun at all to be able to help the group meet the damage requirement on top of doing the tanking-job?
    I do. But that's where the enjoyment is for me. I get to pick a balance between damage and defense. Most often being tankier allows me to pull more and tank longer so the actual damage role players can do more damage. Me dealing 20% more dmg isn't gonna make or break a fight. Me not dying in a tough fight is more important. If I die cause I'm focussing on offense, I fucked up. Not the Healers, no matter how you want to spin it. If DPS is all you care about, why don't you roll a DPS spec?

    Quote Originally Posted by SkagenRora View Post
    DmG is what’s fun tho.

    The worst thing about tanking has always been the low dmg, So it was very fun that they added a thing that procced for an insane amount of dmg.

    But i only M+ tank
    Subjectively.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Elbob View Post
    -Everyone's responsibility, dps pop cds at the right time and focus the right targets, healers triage as needed, tanks move bosses. How is this tank specific?
    -Threat gen is not a skill thing its a floor thing, if this is the reward structure for tanks i guess every frost mage that can find frost bolt is also doing it perfect.
    -making sure the everyone is doing things cohesively is the RL's job, not tank specfiic.
    Primarily because loss of a dps isn't a wipe, but you have to have a group that drastically outgears the content for a tank death to not also be a wipe.

    And before this spins into a 'who's more important' debate, what reward structure has ever been in place for tanks that is going away? You're doing the same job you always have, just like dps, and just like healers.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Artale View Post
    I do. But that's where the enjoyment is for me. I get to pick a balance between damage and defense. Most often being tankier allows me to pull more and tank longer so the actual damage role players can do more damage. Me dealing 20% more dmg isn't gonna make or break a fight. Me not dying in a tough fight is more important. If I die cause I'm focussing on offense, I fucked up. Not the Healers, no matter how you want to spin it. If DPS is all you care about, why don't you roll a DPS spec?



    Subjectively.
    Indeed. Should have added a imo or for me to that sentance.

  20. #100
    I agree that tanks should be able to pump out decent dps, but vehemently disagree about corruptions needing to exist for it it happen. Tank players should be able to reasonably control their own damage output, and random procs or abilities gained from lucky drops shouldn't be the option to achieving that.

    FFXIV does a pretty good job at letting tanks (and even healers) do some solid ST and AoE damage, which makes both roles feel like they are contributing significantly more (purely subjective here) in parties.

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