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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaedis View Post
    This list is lacking the abilities that now scale by the square root formula. Eye Beam is one of these (in general, any ability that in SL says "deals less damage to secondary targets" without annotating a specific percentage uses the square root formula). Basically, for these abilities, the damage done per target equals the base damage divided by the square root of the number of targets, so you still deal more damage for each additional target, but it sees severe diminishing returns. For example, the total damage Eye Beam does against 10 targets is only a bit over 3 times as much damage as it deals against a single target. Against 40 targets, it deals a bit less than 6.5x as much damage as against a single target.

    The Wowhead article on AoE abilities does a much better job of laying this out, incidentally: https://www.wowhead.com/guides/shado...-capped-spells (sorry MMO-C mods, y'all really just need to do a better job at making articles like this. You can't just leave them half-complete like that).
    Completely agree with you.
    As i said above, this is just cumulative update on changes that were done trough alpha/beta and listed spells are like this in past 2 months, even more.

    I understand the need for providing useful information, which this somewhat is, but making uncomplete article or leaving out fact that these changes are already made while we were in early SL beta, meaning months ago when AoE tuning passes were done, with all due respect to MMOC mods, simply makes a confusion within community, which you can easily see just by looking at previous posts, and looks more like engagement bait, rather than actually being useful.
    Last edited by Gurg; 2020-10-12 at 04:50 PM.

  2. #142
    BfA had the GCD change, and now SL has the AoE change. Will be reverted next expansion.

  3. #143
    I am Murloc! Velshin's Avatar
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    Hmmm with that change...the difference between pure aoe and cleave is almost not existing....

  4. #144
    Legendary! Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cren View Post
    You do realize that you dont have to kill the scorpions to summon Shannox right?

    Also it's kind of fun that in the same sentence you say that you don't exaggerate and it makes melee classless useless? You don't see any exaggerating there at all?

    So instead of one GCD it will take 5 or 6 if you pull like 30 mobs at once? That's like 10 seconds.....

    - - - Updated - - -



    Then just gather them all at once like you always do? The only difference is that you need more GCD to kill alot of mobs.
    You have to kill a decent number of mobs - I think it was between 50-60 mobs to spawn Shannox?

    Bigger issue is that there is NO compensation for the AoE cap. Melee aren't better then Casters atm at 5-8 mobs, instead it's that Casters are the same and then just get better.
    And it definetly doesn't belong on tanks.
    Anyone ever notice how the sun seems to shine silverish now? Didn't it used to shine goldish? PM me if you've noticed this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  5. #145
    I hope they leave mages to be the AOE-masters for some flavour

  6. #146
    Blizzard...the kings of making changes no one asked for or wants.

  7. #147
    Pandaren Monk Alayea's Avatar
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    They'll revert it next expansion after they've learned (yet again) that it makes for lousy game play.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    There are abilities that hit 8, and there are abilities that are still full AoE, not listed above. So the entire theory works out fine.
    It really doesn't because they gave 8 target cap to the classes with the most utility already(and no you can't count ones like Shaman Meteor/Eye of the Storm because that's tied to a 2.5m cooldown). The vast majority of them 5 target which just continues to keep rogue at the top of the M+ pack, more so now with all pots having a 5 minute cooldown.
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Trust me.

    Zyky is better than you.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    It really doesn't because they gave 8 target cap to the classes with the most utility already(and no you can't count ones like Shaman Meteor/Eye of the Storm because that's tied to a 2.5m cooldown). The vast majority of them 5 target which just continues to keep rogue at the top of the M+ pack, more so now with all pots having a 5 minute cooldown.
    It doesn't matter if the vast majority is capped, as long a some are uncapped. Then those some have a strength compared to the others and are potentially favorable in such a situation. This is the exact situation you described. Apparently just the class you like isn't part of the group thats favorable here.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    It doesn't matter if the vast majority is capped, as long a some are uncapped. Then those some have a strength compared to the others and are potentially favorable in such a situation. This is the exact situation you described. Apparently just the class you like isn't part of the group thats favorable here.
    You can attempt to believe that if you want, but the problem is tanks can only pull so much and keep aggro on so much. It doesn't matter if Blizzard doesn't have a cap if they're just going to be chasing the mage the whole time because Thunderclap does significantly reduced damage past 5 targets.
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Trust me.

    Zyky is better than you.

  11. #151
    I still think AoE caps are just inherently un-fun. Really disappointed Blizz is sticking to their guns on this, because all it does is make the game a little less fun for the entire population.

  12. #152
    I'm honestly not seeing how this is supposed to make the game better
    Quote Originally Posted by Potboza View Post
    I created a black human male called "Pedopriest" and ran him to SW.
    I started asking where the schools were.
    Someone said "My kids play on this server you creep! How can you live with yourself?"
    I whispered back, "How old are they?"
    Yeah.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolsteak View Post
    I'm honestly not seeing how this is supposed to make the game better
    If you are a caster DPS trying to do M+, you should see it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coffeh View Post
    Blizzard...the kings of making changes no one asked for or wants.
    See above. Ranged DPS that aren't BM or Fire will be pretty happy with this, I think.
    Last edited by Gestopft; 2020-10-13 at 12:25 AM.
    "As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
    -H.L. Mencken, 1920

  14. #154
    not sure how magic has a DR like a weapon swing does........

    glad they pushed back the release to announce this.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    If you are a caster DPS trying to do M+, you should see it.
    Warlock actually

    Still not seeing how this is supposed to make the game better
    Quote Originally Posted by Potboza View Post
    I created a black human male called "Pedopriest" and ran him to SW.
    I started asking where the schools were.
    Someone said "My kids play on this server you creep! How can you live with yourself?"
    I whispered back, "How old are they?"
    Yeah.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolsteak View Post
    Warlock actually

    Still not seeing how this is supposed to make the game better
    Literally the worst M+ class, and you don't see it?

    Let me spell it out: this is a change targeted at Mythic +, as a way to help improve the viability of casters and vary the dungeon experience. The meta for M+ has been to have two melee because melee has multiple advantages when it comes to the format (obviously varying by spec): shorter interrupts, more and longer stuns/mob lockdown, better short-CD AoE burst, full damage while moving, etc. And on top of that the advantages that ranged tend to have (spread cleave for some specs, less downtime due to travel distance) are diminished due to the smaller encounter spaces in dungeons compared to raid boss rooms. With a small number of exceptions, there really isn't much advantage that ranged have over melee in M+, while the list of advantages melee have is pretty large.

    So, the goals here I think are to a) give casters a stronger niche in M+, and also b) allow for more varied strategies in how you pull dungeons.
    "As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
    -H.L. Mencken, 1920

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    Literally the worst M+ class, and you don't see it?

    Let me spell it out: this is a change targeted at Mythic +, as a way to help improve the viability of casters and vary the dungeon experience. The meta for M+ has been to have two melee because melee has multiple advantages when it comes to the format (obviously varying by spec): shorter interrupts, more and longer stuns/mob lockdown, better short-CD AoE burst, full damage while moving, etc. And on top of that the advantages that ranged tend to have (spread cleave for some specs, less downtime due to travel distance) are diminished due to the smaller encounter spaces in dungeons compared to raid boss rooms. With a small number of exceptions, there really isn't much advantage that ranged have over melee in M+, while the list of advantages melee have is pretty large.

    So, the goals here I think are to a) give casters a stronger niche in M+, and also b) allow for more varied strategies in how you pull dungeons.
    I've been doing 15-19s weekly and honestly no and it really doesn't matter if it's an issue for the top <0.5% doing +30s

    At the intended difficulty (Weekly 15 cap) there's no problems with taking any number of ranged nor is there any kind of issues with interrupts, stuns, burst or dpsing while moving

    If this change is supposed to improve m+ for the top <0.5% at the expense of the rest of the 99.5% then it's garbage
    Quote Originally Posted by Potboza View Post
    I created a black human male called "Pedopriest" and ran him to SW.
    I started asking where the schools were.
    Someone said "My kids play on this server you creep! How can you live with yourself?"
    I whispered back, "How old are they?"
    Yeah.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolsteak View Post
    I've been doing 15-19s weekly and honestly no and it really doesn't matter if it's an issue for the top <0.5% doing +30s

    At the intended difficulty (Weekly 15 cap) there's no problems with taking any number of ranged nor is there any kind of issues with interrupts, stuns, burst or dpsing while moving

    If this change is supposed to improve m+ for the top <0.5% at the expense of the rest of the 99.5% then it's garbage
    Cool.

    But as stupid as it is, community perceptions run downhill. You could time your weekly 15 just fine with a DPS team of Affliction, Survival, and Sub. Or Arcane, Balance, and Shadow. Or any combo you want, particularly if you have a group of good players that you usually run with. But the community cares about the meta far, FAR more than is warranted, and that probably isn't going to change any time soon. If target caps can broaden the strategic meta, and/or open up community perceptions of what a viable spec/group looks like, it can lead to better player experiences in the aggregate.

    And to be clear, I'm not even sure how I feel about the changes until I've had a while to play with them- I'm just explaining the rationale- and creating specific weaknesses to counterbalance specific strengths, making more strategies viable, or a greater variety of classes viable, or altering community perceptions are all reasonable goals that can make the game better. Whether or not it does is yet to be seen. I'll probably hate it when I'm playing my rogue, but maybe appreciate it when I'm playing Destro. I don't know: but the question "how is this supposed to make the game better" has multiple answers, not that you have to agree with them, and not that the intended consequences will pan out as planned.
    "As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
    -H.L. Mencken, 1920

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Vidhjerta View Post
    It wasnt necessary, if they could put the cap in place for MDI where it started to become a problem that would be enough.
    How does this change affect anyone outside of m+? Maybe skinning skillers?

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Garybear View Post
    How does this change affect anyone outside of m+? Maybe skinning skillers?
    It slows down things in all aspects of the game where you do AoE.

    Lets say you pull trash before a boss in an old raid, and before you could do one AoE skill to kill them now you have to do several.
    Thats just one example.

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