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  1. #1

    Was making old gods not the big bad a mistake?

    Now they just seem like nasty parasites instead of mysterious lovecraftian beings.

  2. #2
    They effectively remain the big bads, because they are physical extensions of the great Void Lords of beyond. They are also a grave danger to the universe, I would say this was laughably obvious in 8.3. At the climax of the Ny'alotha raid, N'Zoth the Old God attempted to merge Ny'alotha with the very World Soul of Azeroth. Had he succeeded, Azeroth would've been transformed into a Void Titan, and then the cosmos would've truly been doomed. That's why the fight to defeat N'Zoth, is the fight to defend the universe from obliteration, as was stated in the encounter journal.
    I will tell you what I told my own son when he picked up his first blade and played at being a soldier. Whatever your elders have told you... War is not glory. War is seeing people at their very worst and choosing to protect them anyway.

  3. #3
    If the Old Gods really were like Lovecraftian outer gods, and it wakes from its 14 billion year long dream, and all of reality ceases to exist - what are we supposed to do with that? WoW is an RPG so of course every threat needs to get nerfed down to a level where we can punch it in the face and loot it.

  4. #4
    What's to stop another from being hurled at the planet?

  5. #5
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    A mistake? A bit of column A and a bit of a column B. Storytelling always involves a point where you have to reveal your proverbial hand to the audience - you can't sell sizzle forever, and eventually you have to produce said steak. When you're telling a story, you're basically wrestling with the human mind's defense capacities, the way it works to protect itself from threats (real or imaginary) through the machinery of disbelief and rationalization. The Old Gods basically represent a loss of the writers to win that struggle, as the full truth of the Old Gods was revealed and was met with a collective sigh, so to speak, the same as the audience leaning back in their chairs and going "well, that's not so bad, no real reason to be scared/impressed/concerned."

    Lovecraft was well known for not really electing to open that door - keeping the Old Ones or Elder Gods vague and veiled, and in short bursts this works. Easy enough to do with pure fiction, but harder to pull off in a visual medium like a video game.
    "Here lies a toppled god.
    His fall was not a small one.
    We did but build his pedestal,
    A narrow and a tall one."

  6. #6
    Old God HighlordJohnstone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shoc View Post
    If the Old Gods really were like Lovecraftian outer gods, and it wakes from its 14 billion year long dream, and all of reality ceases to exist - what are we supposed to do with that? WoW is an RPG so of course every threat needs to get nerfed down to a level where we can punch it in the face and loot it.
    Well, that's the thing...

    The Old Gods represent the Elder Gods, while the Void Lords represent the Outer Gods. The Void Lords exist outside of reality, same with the Outer Gods, and they likely function the same as well.

  7. #7
    I think after Old Gods in Vanilla, and Wrath, and with the Twilight Hammer in Cata, and Sha in Mists, and Emerald Nightmare corruption, and Ghuun in BFA maybe a concern was people were burned out on Old Gods for a bit, would be my impression.

  8. #8
    I am Murloc! Selastan's Avatar
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    If anything, they are TOO big a bad.

    Lovecraftian bad guys aren't exactly evil, they are indifferent. They should just sort of be there, not given purpose and personality like they are. That's why C'thun was the best Old God. He was there in time when the OLD GODS were just...old gods. An powerful alien being in a forgotten temple beneath a remote and isolated desert. He considered us more like termites in a house he wanted to renovate. Old Gods now are just 'corrupt this, make this mortal insane, send lots of faceless and tentacles.' The fact that the Old Gods aren't important is in their favor.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    I think after Old Gods in Vanilla, and Wrath, and with the Twilight Hammer in Cata, and Sha in Mists, and Emerald Nightmare corruption, and Ghuun in BFA maybe a concern was people were burned out on Old Gods for a bit, would be my impression.
    Exactly. C'thun had his insect army, Yogg had the titan construct of Ulduar and a few spiders. To keep true to Lovecraft, the threat shouldn't BE the unknowable evil itself, but the mortal servants of it. Because the horror of Lovecraft is partially in the unstoppable nature of its' creatures. Once you let that formless tentacled cat out of the bag, it can't go back in again. Either it wins, or you do. But if you keep fighting their cults and influence, the heroes can win AND the big bad can be unstoppable, as it will draw in more followers over time.

    However, I should note that the Old Gods are only INSPIRED by cosmic horror, Warcraft ISN'T a Lovecraftian story. Magic exists, and mortals can destroy buildings, cities, even planets. You can't have an unstoppable being in another realm of existence when your average mage pulls their breakfast from another dimension every morning.

  9. #9
    Brewmaster Evaddon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhalosh Whalescream View Post
    Now they just seem like nasty parasites instead of mysterious lovecraftian beings.
    They've always been nasty parasites that tricked us into thinking they're Gods to be feared and worshipped, thats the thing. They've always been exactly what they ended up being...us as players wanted them to be more, but they never were. That is the trick of the Old Gods.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Adeptus Astartes View Post
    What's to stop another from being hurled at the planet?
    Why don't we just throw another planet at Azeroth?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    I think after Old Gods in Vanilla, and Wrath, and with the Twilight Hammer in Cata, and Sha in Mists, and Emerald Nightmare corruption, and Ghuun in BFA maybe a concern was people were burned out on Old Gods for a bit, would be my impression.
    Blizzard is making people burned out of the Old Gods by making them anticlimactic as hell.

    The way N’Zoth met his end was embarrassing.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    They effectively remain the big bads, because they are physical extensions of the great Void Lords of beyond. They are also a grave danger to the universe, I would say this was laughably obvious in 8.3. At the climax of the Ny'alotha raid, N'Zoth the Old God attempted to merge Ny'alotha with the very World Soul of Azeroth. Had he succeeded, Azeroth would've been transformed into a Void Titan, and then the cosmos would've truly been doomed. That's why the fight to defeat N'Zoth, is the fight to defend the universe from obliteration, as was stated in the encounter journal.
    Yeah... but since we bullied him, his mom is calling our mom and now we are in even MORE trouble (with our mom).

  13. #13
    An old god would still obliterate basically any other being we ever encountered short of a pantheon titan, so not much has changed in that regard. The void lords might be the true nature behind the old gods, but the end result is the same. I am still convinced the void is the ultimate threat, they just have to play up whatever the current expansion bad guy is to make it seem important enough to care.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    They effectively remain the big bads, because they are physical extensions of the great Void Lords of beyond.
    What are Void Lords to Void Kings?

    What are Void Kings to Void Gods?

    What are Void Gods to Void Non-believers?

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldielocks View Post
    Blizzard is making people burned out of the Old Gods by making them anticlimactic as hell.

    The way N’Zoth met his end was embarrassing.
    Blizzard really screwed N'zoth over, he was supposed to be this schemer with plans that had taken millenia to come to fruition. The end result of him dying to a death beam was just stupid. A better ending would have been for everyone to think he was dead but for him to be free of all chains to do his thing on Azeroth. Give him a body like Xal'atath recieved.
    Just Imagine shortly after we re-originated N'zoths body those of us with the gift of N'zoth receive a special cut scene. The player feels a dark presence well up inside as a smoke like essence leaves his body. The essence coalesces into a shadowy form of you. You hear N'zoth's whispers in your head "Thank you for your service, I am free".
    With that the gift of N'zoth disolves from you, and with it all memories of serving the great master.
    This accomplished a few things, it gives us a reason for the gift to disappear, and it would let N'zoth do what he does best manipulate events from the shadows with no one knowing. Also would allow for future storylines involving him.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Memnok View Post
    Blizzard really screwed N'zoth over, he was supposed to be this schemer with plans that had taken millenia to come to fruition. The end result of him dying to a death beam was just stupid. A better ending would have been for everyone to think he was dead but for him to be free of all chains to do his thing on Azeroth. Give him a body like Xal'atath recieved.
    Just Imagine shortly after we re-originated N'zoths body those of us with the gift of N'zoth receive a special cut scene. The player feels a dark presence well up inside as a smoke like essence leaves his body. The essence coalesces into a shadowy form of you. You hear N'zoth's whispers in your head "Thank you for your service, I am free".
    With that the gift of N'zoth disolves from you, and with it all memories of serving the great master.
    This accomplished a few things, it gives us a reason for the gift to disappear, and it would let N'zoth do what he does best manipulate events from the shadows with no one knowing. Also would allow for future storylines involving him.
    I remember a blue post saying that Nzoth always has a backup plan in this kind of situation so I feel like maaaybe that’s where this is going? Eventually?

  17. #17
    Titan Frozenbeef's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adeptus Astartes View Post
    What's to stop another from being hurled at the planet?
    Giant laser in the heart chamber that disintegrates old gods in one blast.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhalosh Whalescream View Post
    Now they just seem like nasty parasites instead of mysterious lovecraftian beings.
    Pretty sure that they're not entirely sure about that themselves, given how prone they seem to dying-but-not-dying, and how the titans' primary research facility ended up producing a new old god rather than finding a means to destroy them permanently.

    And keep in mind that the void lords have plans, but if the old gods take control of a titan/become a void titan they may very well be beyond the void lords' control.

    Hell perhaps they already are, as they do not seem particularly alike to many of their "purer" cousins, nor are thry in any way above trying to devour one another.
    Plus they do not seem designed for control, rather as a desperate crapshoot to counteract the titans.
    Thus who knows what the future holds for them, Warcraft is if anything a story about lesser beings arising to topple their "greaters".
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Respect all, submit to none.

  19. #19
    "They do not die. They do not live. They are outside the cycle..."
    I will tell you what I told my own son when he picked up his first blade and played at being a soldier. Whatever your elders have told you... War is not glory. War is seeing people at their very worst and choosing to protect them anyway.

  20. #20
    Elemental Lord GreenJesus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UndedoKoleda View Post
    What are Void Lords to Void Kings?

    What are Void Kings to Void Gods?

    What are Void Gods to Void Non-believers?
    Lol same with the titans now too.

    There's now some dudes that created the titans.

    As the expansions go on they will probably have some mega super ultra instinct god being that created the creators of the titan creators.

    WoW is basically just DBZ now but with dragons and wizards.
    Last edited by GreenJesus; 2020-10-12 at 09:07 PM.

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