Negative nancies

[Sagenod]

everything said on the internet is directed at you personally so that is how you will respond.

this is reality now.

Earth sucks wish I could live on Azeroth. I just find it ironic that this thread sort of proved my own point on its own

[Sagenod]

I directly responded to EXACTLY where you said you have a problem with negative criticisms, and directly called out the exact statement in which you did. But here, it's right here, again, in case you once again forgot what you typed:



According to your own words, it's not valid criticism unless someone knows the EXACT way to fix it, or a way to describe EXACTLY what's wrong that they dislike. If they don't, according to your own words, they're just 'negative nancies' and aren't having a discussion, they're just here to shit all over your opinion, even if they have a valid point.

Which explains a lot. You'd definitely think there's a lot of negativity if any disagreements with you are "negative."



Then it's a good thing I didn't, right?



And it doesn't make you correct at all, is the point. You're insisting you have a point, I'm insisting you don't. Your job here is to prove it.

The problem then, is that you can't. There's no way for you to PROVE that there's a lot of negativity, because all you can do is point out what you believe is negativity. Which may or may not BE actual negativity in the end, because it's your own anecdotes which we've already pointed out, what you call 'negativity' isn't.



Yes. In fact a major problem in the US right now is there are far too many people who try to talk politics who do not understand the landscape, do not understand the current issues, and do not understand the solutions.



Properly? Yes. If you are unwilling to become a doctor, it's entirely believable that you don't know medicine.



You DO need to be an expert if you insist you have a correct opinion in the field though, which you aren't. So how do we know at all that what you're saying is correct?




And how would you suggest one does that? As someone who insists there's a problem, it sounds more to me like you are attempting to state there's negativity, and I quote:




So it's ok to let you believe you're correct when you're not? I don't believe it is.

It's nobody's 'place' to tell someone that they're wrong, but someone has to, or everyone goes around believing they're correct. You wanted a discussion - If you're not prepared to be told you're wrong, you're not asking for a discussion, you're asking for an echo chamber. That's not what MMO-Champion is, has ever been, or will ever be.



Dunno about you, but I've discussed the topic at hand repeatedly, without question, and without once even talking about how your statements are contradictory.

I'd say I handled it well, while you keep insisting I have no right to tell you I disagree. That's an odd way to 'discuss' anything. Sounds more like you expect people to say "OMG OP YOU SO RIGHT!!!!" and nothing else.

You're in the wrong place for that, without question.



Then you're talking about such a specific problem that you aren't even talking about the same subject as what you claimed to be in the OP.

You keep moving the goalposts when people point out that your statements make no sense.

Either yes, you failed to articulate your point at all, or yes, you are not qualified to talk at length about the issues related to a forum related to a game, because you refuse to talk about the game since you don't play it. Both of these things are sensible answers to the things you've said.

Call them "negative" if you like, but no, you truly don't have much of a point if you don't have the knowledge. That's not negativity, that's fact. It's sad how many people I've had to say this to recently.

"Moving the goal posts." That's another phrase you guys like to use nowadays. Except I never moved the goal posts, I said what I think to begin with and haven't erred from it. You disagree with my opinion that, despite what you believe, is something that many people agree with, even a damn Youtube channel in the case of T&E, who highlights some of the angry, dimwitted remarks that people post every time there's a new blue post.

You must have a savior complex, because it seems to me like you think you have to defend the people with negative criticisms. You can lighten your burden buddy because like I've said multiple times now, I have no inherent issue with negative criticism. My issue is with vitriolic and/or idiotic statements that cause meaningless arguments, which often times aren't thought out to begin with rather posted from a place of emotion. There isn't anything wrong with being emotional but there's something wrong with being a negative nancy, someone who makes everything negative. You can have a discussion about negative things without having a seeming negative attitude all the time, by the way. There is something to be said for optimism, having just a dash of it perhaps, instead of making everything seem like the end of the world. A large amount of people (or just a vocal minority) seem to be so fatalistic, claiming "this is the end" everytime they see something they dislike. Don't even try to argue with that because it's a literal meme at this point, with those people coming out to post on forums without fail every expansion.

Right, you have to be educated on politics or medicine to a certain level to be a politician or a doctor. But you're using my analogy to draw a false equivalence in the context of someone keeping up with a video game. Just like people can keep up with the sciences without currently being a scientist, people can keep up with WoW without currently playing the game. You may feel any way you wish to feel but people can be educated on the current goings-on World of Warcraft without playing the game. I don't need to go to school for it. It's not surgery, it's a video game, and nearly every damn change made to the game is documented on the internet.

And no, I don't have an issue with people disagreeing with me. I will defend myself when someone brings into question my intentions, however. Let's drop the pretenses and I'll make it simple:

1) People across the internet are upset about the current state of WoW and despite what you may believe, I understand and I sympathize

2) There are plenty of people who discuss these issues in a mature manner but that often gets drowned out by detractors who complain for the sake of complaint, or make negative statements that provide nothing to the conversation, causing meaningless arguments.

3) I would personally like to see less attacks on others for their perspectives and more of, whether in agreement or not, understanding of each others' viewpoints. That's something I've certainly been trying to do as much as possible.

In closing, you're right this thread really doesn't belong here because it's more a statement on society than World of Warcraft at this point. I think it should just be closed at this point!

[Swnem]

I try not to overdo it myself. I do feel sorry for them sometimes, but they really have it out for themselves. People do not believe them anymore. They endured several years of frustration and lies with their arrogance and stubbornness.

They have been bad devs for a long time now and if this is what's needed for them to finally get the message, then it's a message they need to hear. Not even just for the devs, but for the execs/Activision/shareholders themselves that more often are behind some terrible decisions.
This can make things like the need for a delay something they can more easily achieve when the community itself is saying it's needed. This, honesty, is apparently what is needed. Pretending things are well when they aren't is not gonna help anyone.

The "nice" approach hasn't been working. After 4 years of ineffectiveness, i support being brutally honest at this point, cause it seems to be the only way to deliver the message.

[Sagenod]

I try not to overdo it myself. I do feel sorry for them sometimes, but they really have it out for themselves. People do not believe them anymore. They endured several years of frustration and lies with their arrogance and stubbornness.

They have been bad devs for a long time now and if this is what's needed for them to finally get the message, then it's a message they need to hear. Not even just for the devs, but for the execs/Activision/shareholders themselves that more often are behind some terrible decisions.
This can make things like the need for a delay something they can more easily achieve when the community itself is saying it's needed. This, honesty, is apparently what is needed. Pretending things are well when they aren't is not gonna help anyone.

The "nice" approach hasn't been working. After 4 years of ineffectiveness, i support being brutally honest at this point, cause it seems to be the only way to deliver the message.

I can respect that and I do agree. Conversely, however, people have been acting like this since vanilla and we're still at the same point. There have been situations when making enough noise has caused change, such as recently with the Shadowlands location-restricted covenant abilities. But that's more or less an outlier isn't it?

[Yarathir]

Nice, the thread went one post without someone demonstrating my point! Not too bad if I do say so myself.

This is called a Kafkatrap, son.

[Yarathir]

"Why must people complain when Blizzard gives us a garbage product?! We should just be happy with what they give us even if they're also charging for said garbage product!"

It's charity, you know.

Be grateful they generously offer you product, then get excited for next products.

- - - Updated - - -

I agree with the OP.

It's okay to be critical of Blizzard and WoW. But some people here just need to quit the game and find something else to do, because what they express isn't criticism but hate.

Maybe you just haven't been in it for long enough.

What you call incessant complaining and hating is probably just the result of different things compounding that causes players to be frustrated and disillusioned with the state of the game or the way the developers are developing said game.

- - - Updated - - -

It's not that people should stop being negative. It's that they should be constructive. Complaining for the sake of it isn't constructive.

Yeah, well, a lot of people see the source of a complaint as a non-issue if it doesn't particularly affect them either.

My problems = real, valid issues
Their problems = whining and entitlement

[dacoolist]

Does anyone ever have such a bad time that they post on the forums that other people are complaining about a game they love, so in turn you come to the forums to belittle those avid consumers of said game they love so that they will what.. hang up their mantle?

If you're wanting players to quit the game, you have to start with yourself

[Yarathir]

Does anyone ever have such a bad time that they post on the forums that other people are complaining about a game they love, so in turn you come to the forums to belittle those avid consumers of said game they love so that they will what.. hang up their mantle?

If you're wanting players to quit the game, you have to start with yourself

Sir, good sir. I think you overlooked something:

I don't even play right now

[Archmage Alodi]

People who like the way things are, would be playing the game instead. I didn't check any wow forums during Legion because I was busy having fun playing the game.

[Soon-TM]

For a "constructive" thread, it is sure going places. GJ OP

[Addict]

It's not that people should stop being negative. It's that they should be constructive. Complaining for the sake of it isn't constructive.

To qoute a friend that have been playing since TBC and been beta/ptr testing until mid-Legion and afterwards stopped:
"Whats the f**king point when they say they want feedback but never seem to take any action until after its released. If they dont intent to fix things we've reported to them on mass since the beginning of the testing until its out - why even bother testing and reporting, its gonna be broken regardless."

Personally, i just complain because its the trendy thing to do but others have tried their best to help blizz for years to make the game better and it just fell on deaf ears.

[aceperson]

I don't even play right now and I have a better attitude about World of Warcraft than a seemingly large amount of people on this forum.

found the disconnect. don't be a stupid susan, op.

[rrayy]

Nice, the thread went one post without someone demonstrating my point! Not too bad if I do say so myself.

You are guilty of what you are accusing others of as all you are doing is complaing about those that complain about the game.

[Sagenod]

Clearly this thread rubs people the wrong way so at this point I think we should let it die, no point in going back and forth anymore.

The last thing I'll say is that I suppose I have a different perspective from other people, which is not a problem of course. Furthermore, what I've learned from this is that I need to keep things simpler. If I had said "I wish I saw more positive discussion and creative pursuits in regards to World of Warcraft and less anger towards the game" it would have been much less contentious (and also not worthy of a thread to begin with, but this one isn't worthy either).

But like I said there is no point in going back and forth. I've got an unpopular opinion on something and there was no need to share it here!

[rrayy]

Clearly this thread rubs people the wrong way so at this point I think we should let it die, no point in going back and forth anymore.

The last thing I'll say is that I suppose I have a different perspective from other people, which is not a problem of course. Furthermore, what I've learned from this is that I need to keep things simpler. If I had said "I wish I saw more positive discussion and creative pursuits in regards to World of Warcraft and less anger towards the game" it would have been much less contentious (and also not worthy of a thread to begin with, but this one isn't worthy either).

But like I said there is no point in going back and forth. I've got an unpopular opinion on something and there was no need to share it here!

It wasn't your opinion that was the problem. It was your "I'm better than you " attitude and tone.

[Sagenod]

It wasn't your opinion that was the problem. It was your "I'm better than you " attitude and tone.

Based on the replies it mostly seemed to be about the opinion but yeah I get it that was unintentional.

[Telomir]

Where are the positive uncles at?

[Harbour]

Negativity is usually pointed at bad stuff Blizzard does. Being negative can help battle bad stuff Blizzard does and get it fixed. Being negative is healthy for the game. Defending bad stuff is the toxic way of action.

[korijenkins]

OP, you messed up. You will now read essays in replies berating you and explaining how you are a bad human being for not being negative about the game, and why you should be negative instead, and how it's good for the game to be negative.

On another note, my personal favorite "criticism" of the recent time is "who asked for this"...implying that things have to be asked for by a group of players in order to make their way to the game. True beauty of gamer entitlement at its best

Considering the "who asked for this" people are basically saying "why would you implement something we've specifically made clear isn't popular by your plummeting sub numbers" you're being a bit misleading by being so vague.

Nobody asked them to double and triple down on terrible gimmick gear systems. They in fact showed they didn't want them by abandoning BFA when azerite was revealed to be the poop system it was. Instead of understanding that, Blizzard tripled down by adding essences and corruption to the game.

[Funkyjunky]

Earth sucks wish I could live on Azeroth. I just find it ironic that this thread sort of proved my own point on its own

You sure do like irony..

My issue is with vitriolic and/or idiotic statements that cause meaningless arguments, which often times aren't thought out to begin with rather posted from a place of emotion.