Is Cleave DoA?

[Zorgulon]

As the title says, is the Cleave talent Dead on arrival?
I mean, I was very excited to get cleave in the form it should be; a hard hitting sweep!
Problem is, it shares it's row with Collateral Damage, which is OK I guess, but most importantly, Warbreaker. I don't really see any reason to pick Cleave over Warbreaker, especially if you use Anger Management.
I get that Cleave is supposed to be the consistent...uh...cleave talent, but with how short the Warbreaker CD can get, I just don't really see the value of it compared to something so simple as Warbeaker + Bladestorm.
Am I just dead wrong here in my assumption?

[Sanguinerd]

I was thinking the same thing. Yesterday tried using cleave for a bit but not having warbreaker just felt wrong.

They really need to move cleave to another row.

[DazManianDevil]

Make Cleave baseline you damn dirty apes Blizz!
/s
Whenever I play my warrior my eyes naturally drift off that talent, tis a shame.

[JacobusRex]

I was thinking the same thing. Yesterday tried using cleave for a bit but not having warbreaker just felt wrong.

They really need to move cleave to another row.

No, it needs to become a baseline ability for Arms. A lot of warrior "talents" should be baseline because of how pathetic the toolkit for Arms is... it shouldn't have or use shield abilities, it shouldn't have or use bleed abilities to supplement damage. It should be raw, heavy hitting power in each attack.

I could 'reimagine' arms in 8 hours of thoughtful effort.

[Baconeggcheese]

Tuning allowing I could see dreadnought and cleave making sense mechanically at least. Overpower is buffing cleave.

[Sanguinerd]

No, it needs to become a baseline ability for Arms. A lot of warrior "talents" should be baseline because of how pathetic the toolkit for Arms is... it shouldn't have or use shield abilities, it shouldn't have or use bleed abilities to supplement damage. It should be raw, heavy hitting power in each attack.

I could 'reimagine' arms in 8 hours of thoughtful effort.

I only meant move it to another row if they're dead set on keeping it a talent for w/e shit reason. Same as rend really.. why is that a talent.

And yeah the shields.. why the fuck doesn't being in def stance just count for having a shield equipped at this point, swapping weapons is just a pain

[Jackstraw]

No, it needs to become a baseline ability for Arms. A lot of warrior "talents" should be baseline because of how pathetic the toolkit for Arms is... it shouldn't have or use shield abilities, it shouldn't have or use bleed abilities to supplement damage. It should be raw, heavy hitting power in each attack.

I could 'reimagine' arms in 8 hours of thoughtful effort.

There's a few classes where historic spells have been made into talents, in what to me looks like an unimaginative design band aid.

A shame, really.

[Eninya]

Cleave is just the sustained AoE vs. the burst AoE option again. Personally, I find Warbreaker is just a fire and forget option for Bladestorming.

[cparle87]

Cleave is just the sustained AoE vs. the burst AoE option again. Personally, I find Warbreaker is just a fire and forget option for Bladestorming.

Yeah, seems to me it's a brutal slash vs swipe comparison to me.

[Zyky]

I was thinking the same thing. Yesterday tried using cleave for a bit but not having warbreaker just felt wrong.

They really need to move cleave to another row.

I still don't understand why Warbreaker just isn't baseline...like it's so good and it encourages good gameplay. It also syncs up with every other bladestorm, which logically makes them pair really well....

[Gotural]

What's wrong with this talent row? Both Cleave and Warbreaker feel amazing and fill their purpose perfectly which is improving either sustained AoE or burst AoE.

Cleave especially feels so good to use imo.

[loras]

As the title says, is the Cleave talent Dead on arrival?
I mean, I was very excited to get cleave in the form it should be; a hard hitting sweep!
Problem is, it shares it's row with Collateral Damage, which is OK I guess, but most importantly, Warbreaker. I don't really see any reason to pick Cleave over Warbreaker, especially if you use Anger Management.
I get that Cleave is supposed to be the consistent...uh...cleave talent, but with how short the Warbreaker CD can get, I just don't really see the value of it compared to something so simple as Warbeaker + Bladestorm.
Am I just dead wrong here in my assumption?

Yeah, it should be baseline honestly.
Frankly for all i care they make it a channel that gets bigger damage, range and target cap the longer you channel, just make sure it feels right and not so gimpy as it did in the past.

[Gotural]

No just no please don't add channels to a melee abilities.
Warbreaker and Cleave are perfect as they are right now, with Warbreaker you have lower Deep Wounds uptime but more burst, with Cleave you have more total Deep Wounds uptime in AoE.


It is simple and it works great. The game would be amazing if more talent rows worked this way.

[Zorgulon]

What's wrong with this talent row? Both Cleave and Warbreaker feel amazing and fill their purpose perfectly which is improving either sustained AoE or burst AoE.

Cleave especially feels so good to use imo.

Yeah, I get this, it's burst vs sustained AoE, but I feel the CD on Warbreaker + BS is so short, especially with Anger Management that it basically becomes "sustained" AoE anyway...
And I REALLY want Cleave to work and be satisfying!

[Gotural]

Even in 8.3 Cleave was extremely good in sustained AoE situations compared to Warbreaker. And let's not forget that we are going to lose nearly all our haste going into SL, which will reduce the impact of Anger Management quite a lot.