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  1. #41
    The Insane Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuminaL View Post
    read again, I said having the AP contributed to all your artifacts was the better thing to do.
    Better, marginally, they could have cut all the crap with the 1% more damage to x ability talents that just served as timegates that you had to put 3 points into. The abilities you had to wait to get to make certain spells actually worth casting. And all the abilities that just gave you back what they'd cut from your baseline going into the expansion.

  2. #42
    Legion killed the way i liked to play wow. It will always be a low point.

  3. #43
    Legion had a lot of really stupid issues, but it was a cool expansion.

    As far as pure "mechanical" fun, I would probably still default back to the older expansions, especially MOP though.

  4. #44
    I'm glad you liked Legion, but I personally wasn't a big fan of it. Due to the Paragon system as well as just the grinding around everything, I lost a lot of my drive to collect things like Mounts & Pets and have struggled to get it back since. The Legiondaries were a pain and honestly cost me my raiding guild at first, due to the other Resto Druid getting their ideal legendaries so quick while I struggled with the worst ones in the game. And the introductory zones really felt disjointed and like none of them belonged to each other's story. You could have completely cut Highmountain and still told 90% or more of the story of Legion.

    But I will give some credit where it is due for Legion. Aside from maybe Mists, it had the best story of any WoW expansion by a long shot. From going into the Emerald Nightmare to freeing Illidan to closing the portal to going to Argus to take the fight to the Legion, I can't think of a time I felt more like a hero trying to save a world from certain destruction than Legion. The Order Halls were masterfully done, each with a fantastic story to tell that made you want to play each class. I still want something similar to that on a Race level using the capital cities. Karazhan was a fun mega dungeon and had it's own feel while staying true to the Karazhan raid flow. And for all the classes that could've been added, the Demon Hunter was the right call by far. Play-wise, they feel different than any other class & story-wise, they really did add to the game's story.

  5. #45
    Legion is definitely the worst enemy for "completionists"

  6. #46
    Legion was probably the first time since golden age when the "current xpac" was not the worst. But then again it came after WoD, so it wasn't that hard.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nachtigal View Post
    B) Torghast is the coolest thing Blizzard has produced

  7. #47
    Herald of the Titans
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    It certainly felt like the expansion Blizzard put all their efforts into. The starting content was huge. Follow up too. 4 full raids and 1 mini raid. 5 main zones + 4 zones in addition. World Quests. Professions quests. Class Campaigns for all classes, Quest Chains for each spec. Quest Chains for class mounts. Mage Tower.

    No expansion prior and after had so much stuff put in. Not even TBC or WotLK.

  8. #48
    I've said it numerous times, but I was playing the BFA beta and found myself not wanting Legion to end. It has been to date the only expac that has happened for me. I agree on Argus as well. Instead of BFA Argus should have been the following expansion. The Argus we got was a tragic waste of what would have been a great expansion.

  9. #49
    Mechagnome Ilyiana's Avatar
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    yeah legion was an apex in a lot of ways. i get really interested when topics like this pop up and the massive influx of legion hate arrives. the valid criticisms are of course artifacts and legiondaries, but like, the rest of the game is a developmental feat. there's astronomical amounts of content, unique experiences for every class, and an engaging climactic story.

    the way i see it based off SL so far, legion was the true and genuine conclusion of every plot brought up in warcraft 3. old gods happened in bfa but that plot really started in wow, not wc3. legion feels like the ending for the heroes who fought in wc3, and thusly our view into the franchise. it feels like the climax and falling action, and it was awesome. there's a reason they made "epilogue" cinematics, it was that high stakes. shadowlands seems to be the plot "zoomed out" from azeroth. no spoilers, but legion felt like the last huge threat to azeroth, and bfa was the epilogue to it, mopping up the stragglers. SL and beyond will be about wild intergalactic stuff. so yeah, legion definitely feels like the peak of "coolness" for folks who started all the way back in warcraft days. in my mind, legion is the end of the game in a lot of ways. i'm still enjoying it and will happily play SL and engage with the lore (lots of it looks super cool), but in a way legion was the end of the adventure i started in 2004.
    https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ch...lganis/ilyiana
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  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilyiana View Post
    the way i see it based off SL so far, legion was the true and genuine conclusion of every plot brought up in warcraft 3
    I think this was a big advantage for Legion, it was the first xpac since WotLK which was actually connected to Warcraft 3.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nachtigal View Post
    B) Torghast is the coolest thing Blizzard has produced

  11. #51
    AP was a good idea. I think it was executed poorly. But the general idea of a "universal rep bar" filled by performing various content at endgame is good.

  12. #52
    The Insane Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zylos View Post
    This is all subjective and I disagree with most of it however I think this one is interesting,



    Odyn's final challenge was himself and Odyn knew he could crush Skovald in single combat. He has to entertain him because Odyn is a titan creation and therefore aligned with "Order". He is a lawful being and in order to keep the obedience of his subjects (Valkyr, Valarjar, Vrykul) he follows the laws he has set forth for them, even if it means entertaining Skovald's delusions of power.
    Of course it's subjective any claim of a high or low point always is.

    and the whole order thing falls apart when you keep in mind that skovald didn't do any of the trials the right way he should have never gotten into what's it called if order had any actual baring on oydn.

  13. #53
    Elemental Lord GreenJesus's Avatar
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    7.3.5 was good, but 7.0 & 7.2 were a disaster. Suramar and the dungeons that came with were good. Artifacts locking you to one spec, legendary RNG, class pruning, and world quest overload ruined an otherwise solid expansion. Broken shore patch... let's just pretend that zone didn't exist... Maybe the worst zone they ever released.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by cozzri View Post
    The best way to play WoW now is to sub 1-2 months towards the end of the expansions; play through the story do all the raids; then quit and repeat.

    The borrowed power grind isn't worth it in terms of time investment.

    The gear treadmill has become insane with no achievable end goal.

    Play for the story after all the content is released and cut loose till next time.

    I still love the game, just have to play it different now.
    Legion to me only got somewhat enjoyable NOW. No pressure with AP, nor with legendaries, 100% rep boost (till it lasts), so paragon boxes aren't outrageously bad. Leveling through is only bearable with the 100% XP boost (to me, again). Shame.
    The only thing I personally liked about Legion was Suramar.

  15. #55
    Yes, it was their ace up their sleeve.
    It wasn't meant to be the next expansion, but WoD sucked(for most of the players), so they had to use it. It was half-finished(that's the reason why DH has only 2 spec), but they lost plenty of subs in WoD, so they had to use something special they kept for that moment.


  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Artifacts and the endless grind of AP spoiled the game so hard I quit. I wouldn't call that a high point.

    Then out of curiosity what expansion do you think is great and has a high point cause I am thinking of other expansions in my head, and most of them were slightly boring. But I did LOVE MoP expansion and Legion expac as well.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    I never once felt like Artifacts were choices, sorry. Just mistakes waiting to happen. As per my Frost Mage and Affliction Warlock, which wouldn't have been Affliction had they not fucking deleted Demonology. It was only having levelled my SPriest I felt settled with anything, but by that point, far far too late to do anything with her.

    AP made the same mistakes that Garrisons did, they made you forget there was a game outside of it. Class Halls, which started off nice ended up being Garrison 2.0 with their only purpose really being to serve your Artifact. They let that whole system of a "mini game" become the game. The Artifact Trees weren't even that interesting, with a whole lot of +1% talents they realised way back in Cataclysm were boring as fuck time gates on getting what were mostly a bunch of regurgitated talents and abilities they'd previously taken away - and worst of all, abilities you needed to make baseline spells worth casting at all.

    Don't get me wrong, the quests and stories that went with them were great, but the execution of their input to "get people invested" by forcing it into being the most meaningful part of the game was horrible. I really hope Shadowlands has finally learned from that in ways BfA sort of seemed to accept by the end.

    Dalaran didn't feel relevant, as it was way too far from the action, be that your class hall or the world, it could have been anywhere, it just felt about as relevant as the portal room in Stormwind's Mage Tower because that's as much purpose as it served.

    To be honest it is hard to see what exactly the gamers want in this game. Honestly I think people want to the game to return to that boring state of classic WoW.
    Shadow deserves nothing, the same as Fire Mages.

  17. #57
    The Insane Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggressive View Post
    Then out of curiosity what expansion do you think is great and has a high point cause I am thinking of other expansions in my head, and most of them were slightly boring. But I did LOVE MoP expansion and Legion expac as well.
    MoP and Wrath for me were the highest points. WoD and, Legion especially deviated too far from WoW and into new systems rather than the world.

  18. #58
    I agree, lol. I know not everyone will agree, but Legion was my favorite expansion and legiondaries were my favorite part of that expansion, haha. I didn't get my BIS fire bracers until the very end either.

    IMHO, the AP grind was basically an illusion that you ride the catchup mechanics on and level organically and not really miss much, except being slightly behind the curve for a three weeks. Those who didn't ride the catchup that I played with burned out early and quit. It was almost a trick of mathematics, while it seemed that progress was steady, your progress actually began to devalue pretty much the second you grinded it, eventually being completely negated by organic play.

    They did have to rebalance the endless talent at one point I believe, because it was giving significant advantages to those who really pushed it, but iirc they changed that after a short period to further reduce the separation between those who participated and those who did not.

    IMO, it was only there to create content via a grind, and it did have breakpoints that gave you solid upgrades, but eventually wasn't worth keeping up with artificially. The best grind ever in WoW for me, was Legiondaries when they added in the bad luck protection. I did all content at all difficulties every week/day as needed and it really never grew old for me because I always got hyped that THIS TIME might be the time I get my bracers. I enjoyed it greatly.

    BFA, by contrast, was horrible IMO and the launch state ruined the xpak so bad that even after they fixed it, it was still ruined just from the badness of the launch period.
    Last edited by Zenfoldor; 2020-10-15 at 07:55 PM.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    MoP and Wrath for me were the highest points. WoD and, Legion especially deviated too far from WoW and into new systems rather than the world.
    The Problem with this game is the developers do think that complex systems are better. And honestly I hate that they think that way. Cause complex is not always better...at least when it comes to this game.
    Shadow deserves nothing, the same as Fire Mages.

  20. #60
    They are already selling nostalgia glasses Legion edition? Man... I am still wearing my MoP model...

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