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  1. #21
    I feel like PF is better suited as an execute and it should auto crit on targets below 30% maybe it's just the idea of basically watching a phoenix chase down your prey as it scurries to survive. And Ignite should just be a passive and our mastery should be an increase to crit damage.
    Last edited by blankfaced; 2020-11-07 at 02:45 PM.
    I'm a thread killer.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Nynax View Post
    Isn't that exactly how it worked in Legion though? If I remember correctly, it was originally a longer CD Hot Streak generator with 3 charges that lined up nicely with cumbustion windows. Also during a time when Ignite spread automatically.

    I'm fine with having to spread Ignite manually with Phenix Flames, but I just think the Legion form of the spell should have stayed. (It's not like Fire ever really unseated Frost dominance during Legion)
    The difference is that you didn't have to spread ignite with Phoenix Flames in Legion. So now you're potentially being screwed over by using your charges during Combustion because it has a stupidly long recharge time.

    Fire just feels ridiculously and needlessly clunky and the only way the spec is going to be good is if they change something or overtune the spec to just be better.
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Trust me.

    Zyky is better than you.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    The difference is that you didn't have to spread ignite with Phoenix Flames in Legion. So now you're potentially being screwed over by using your charges during Combustion because it has a stupidly long recharge time.

    Fire just feels ridiculously and needlessly clunky and the only way the spec is going to be good is if they change something or overtune the spec to just be better.
    So I was just playing around with Fire in M+, and I do kinda get what you're saying...but it didn't feel TOO terrible.

    Personally, what I felt like I really wanted was for Living Bomb to be baseline. That extra AOE button to use in between building Hot Streak! for Flamestrikes really helps improve the feel of the aoe flow. But having to choose between Living Bomb and Flame Patch just kinda sucks imo.

    Also, omg I miss the Legion legendary that triggered Flamestrike on top of Fire Blasts.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Nynax View Post
    So I was just playing around with Fire in M+, and I do kinda get what you're saying...but it didn't feel TOO terrible.

    Personally, what I felt like I really wanted was for Living Bomb to be baseline. That extra AOE button to use in between building Hot Streak! for Flamestrikes really helps improve the feel of the aoe flow. But having to choose between Living Bomb and Flame Patch just kinda sucks imo.

    Also, omg I miss the Legion legendary that triggered Flamestrike on top of Fire Blasts.
    The issue is they keep flipflopping and it's not a very solid design for the game in general. They do this with lots of specs, not just fire, where they can't decide which way they want the spec to go and it keeps the players caught in a very unfun loop. To discuss what I'm talking about: In Mists and WoD Fire Blast(at the time called Inferno Blast) spread Ignite, In Legion and BFA it spread naturally, and now in Shadowlands it's back to requiring an ability(and this time on a significantly longer cooldown than Inferno Blast) to spread.

    My issue with all of this, isn't the spreading aspect behind Ignite, it's that Flamestrike hits for absolute dogshit. And why is this? Because in one of the first PTR patches for Legion the go-to rotation was spamming Flamestrike because it was actually good with the double Flamestrike from Felo'melorn and Flame Patch paired together. They nerfed it before that ever hit live servers and never compensated Flamestrike to be remotely decent after that nerf.

    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Trust me.

    Zyky is better than you.

  5. #25
    I'll just point out flamestrike memespec was actually a thing on live servers, it didnt get isolated to just ptr.

  6. #26
    If you enjoy fire spec go fire spec. Spec choice doesn't really matter until higher end mythic raiding and even then you'll see exceptions. So if you really enjoy fire mage, go fire mage because you will naturally to better with a spec you enjoy, and you will want to do better with a spec you enjoy. If you're in an established guild and you pull your weight no one will care what spec you go. If you usually pug groups though there is a stereotype for each class so keep that in mind

  7. #27
    I'm still not over what they did to ignite spreading but the spec is viable right now.

    I'll be playing Frost until Fire gets to the point where i'm forced to spec it.

    I hope between now and then Fire gets some changes cause i really really really hate having to manually spread ignite.

  8. #28
    It's pretty insane for Mythic 0s with huge pulls.

    Single target it can mostly go toe to toe vs Shadow and Destruction as well.

    I know it sounds like a dumb statement, but that's all the data I have.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by DeiVias View Post
    I'm still not over what they did to ignite spreading but the spec is viable right now.

    I'll be playing Frost until Fire gets to the point where i'm forced to spec it.

    I hope between now and then Fire gets some changes cause i really really really hate having to manually spread ignite.
    Honestly, It's really not that bad imo. Because Phenix Flames no longer auto crits it's not really used outside of Combustion anyway, so I end up always having stacks as it is. And even inside Combustion, with the Flame On talent, I can only fit 2 Phenix Flames max. Meaning there's always an extra third charge. And in full on AoE, you're focusing Flamestrike anyway and not really worried about ignite spreading.

    Sure it would be nice if it was passive, but I just haven't found spending the occasional GCD to be a big hindrance or run into issues of not having enough PF charges.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by DeiVias View Post
    I'm still not over what they did to ignite spreading but the spec is viable right now.

    I'll be playing Frost until Fire gets to the point where i'm forced to spec it.

    I hope between now and then Fire gets some changes cause i really really really hate having to manually spread ignite.
    Im not a fan of it either but you get used to it really fast

  11. #31
    Hello, I'm thinking of migrating from frost to fire due to better performance in the raid. I'm trying to learn the rotation, it seems a little complicated.

    How to hit AOE outside of combustion? I'm trying to hardcast the flamestrike, but my damage always ends last in the dgs. What am I doing wrong? I read a lot of tutorials, everyone talks about simply casting flamestrike, but for me it hasn't worked.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Hotzz View Post
    Hello, I'm thinking of migrating from frost to fire due to better performance in the raid. I'm trying to learn the rotation, it seems a little complicated.

    How to hit AOE outside of combustion? I'm trying to hardcast the flamestrike, but my damage always ends last in the dgs. What am I doing wrong? I read a lot of tutorials, everyone talks about simply casting flamestrike, but for me it hasn't worked.
    Without Flame Patch Icon Flame Patch talented:

    Cast Flamestrike Icon Flamestrike during Combustion Icon Combustion with Hot Streak Icon Hot Streak: 6+ targets, never hard-cast during Combustion
    Cast Flamestrike Icon Flamestrike outside of Combustion Icon Combustion both hard-cast and with Hot Streak Icon Hot Streak: 3+ targets

    With Flame Patch Icon Flame Patch talented:

    Cast Flamestrike Icon Flamestrike during Combustion Icon Combustion with Hot Streak Icon Hot Streak: 3+ targets, never hard-cast during Combustion
    Cast Flamestrike Icon Flamestrike outside of Combustion Icon Combustion both hard-cast and with Hot Streak Icon Hot Streak: 2+ targets

    Above is basically what you need to know... thing is that this take into account for enemies standing in the flame patch for it's duration. However, outside combustion you tend to deal less dmg than most... with kindling and night fae you can have combust up for every other pack or so though.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Without Flame Patch Icon Flame Patch talented:

    Cast Flamestrike Icon Flamestrike during Combustion Icon Combustion with Hot Streak Icon Hot Streak: 6+ targets, never hard-cast during Combustion
    Cast Flamestrike Icon Flamestrike outside of Combustion Icon Combustion both hard-cast and with Hot Streak Icon Hot Streak: 3+ targets

    With Flame Patch Icon Flame Patch talented:

    Cast Flamestrike Icon Flamestrike during Combustion Icon Combustion with Hot Streak Icon Hot Streak: 3+ targets, never hard-cast during Combustion
    Cast Flamestrike Icon Flamestrike outside of Combustion Icon Combustion both hard-cast and with Hot Streak Icon Hot Streak: 2+ targets

    Above is basically what you need to know... thing is that this take into account for enemies standing in the flame patch for it's duration. However, outside combustion you tend to deal less dmg than most... with kindling and night fae you can have combust up for every other pack or so though.
    Sad that i am venthyr...=(

  14. #34
    Bloodsail Admiral spaace's Avatar
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    So why do people think fire is bad? lol

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by spaace View Post
    So why do people think fire is bad? lol
    Need bis conduit and bis legendary to be decent
    You think you do, but you don't ©
    Rogues are fine ©
    We're pretty happy with rogues ©
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  16. #36
    Stood in the Fire Torian kel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by D3athsting View Post
    Need bis conduit and bis legendary to be decent
    Decent ? Top guilds are taking a mage just for intellect buff, we don't even appear in top 15 dps. Ridiculous.

    Echo has 4 warlocks, 3 hunters, 3 dks, 3 sp, and one mage. Amazing performance

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by D3athsting View Post
    Need bis conduit and bis legendary to be decent
    Not sure that's the reason since both of them are easy to get... fairly sure it's the damage.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Not sure that's the reason since both of them are easy to get... fairly sure it's the damage.
    Easy if you're lucky, i did 11/12 plaguefall runs split between m0 and m+ and never got it, got 171 from a wq and the 184 version from daily cache 2 days ago
    You think you do, but you don't ©
    Rogues are fine ©
    We're pretty happy with rogues ©
    Haste will fix it ©

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Torian kel View Post
    Decent ? Top guilds are taking a mage just for intellect buff, we don't even appear in top 15 dps. Ridiculous.

    Echo has 4 warlocks, 3 hunters, 3 dks, 3 sp, and one mage. Amazing performance
    Does every guild is Echo ? Should we copy what top world guild are doing ?

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Does every guild is Echo ? Should we copy what top world guild are doing ?
    Not unequivocally, but there's a reason they are doing what they are doing.

    Fire Mage isn't bad by any means. It's pretty good. It's just that there's other DPS that are better, or bring better utility. One Mage will always be in the raid, and it should probably be Fire.

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