Vanilla > Nostalrius > Classic

[Ryzael]

why doesn't classic live up to vanilla?

1) layers and their consequences

2) crossrealm battlegrounds

[Saltysquidoon]

A thread about how Classic isn't the amazing megahardcore super extreme like you remember vanilla being (it wasn't).
First two posts are 100% pure crystalised COPE blaming the community.

Like Pottery.

[Zyky]

It has nothing to do with the version or how it was implemented tbh. If WoW was released exactly like classic back in 2004 everything would have felt extremely similar. It’s the community of min maxers that changed the pace and turned it into what it is today.

Don’t let anyone tell you it’s blizzards fault. It’s 100% the players. Hopefully there will be LESS holes exploited in tbc just because of how it’s made.

It's exactly this, this was a prevalent issue on Nostalrius too and it carried into Classic. "speed clear" records weren't a thing in Vanilla...in many cases Vanilla had the struggle of "can we even manage 40 people tonight". Events like the AQ gates were ruined because players were just stockpiling mats for turn-ins because they knew what they'd need. A fantastic example is how most people didn't use flasks or food until AQ/Naxx content because they were just flat out too expensive and they're really not needed until that point.

BC will have less issue I'm sure, just because Blizzard made BC with significantly better features and a more clear direction of what you had to do.

[TheRevenantHero]

Yeah, it's the players that changed how Vanilla worked to how Classic worked. It wasn't Blizzard.

Now you have tons of players who play only in the way the GUIDE tells them to, and anything else is 'inefficient'. Vanilla wasn't made for such a set of players.

If Vanilla wasn't made for min-maxers then there wouldn't be only one build that was viable for every class.

[deenman]

optimized gameplay is only part of it, if they would have gona back and release each phase on the balance/talent/etc patch that it was originally released on, all that optimization that people did playing nost and other servers on the 1.12 patch would have been pointless. MC would have been unclearable for weeks or more, not because the mechanics are hard, but the numbers would be hard. tanks getting 1 shot until they are in full heavy tank gear, none of this DW tanking in half leather and surviving. healers and casters would be oom halfway into the fights because the gear and the class design was not nearly as efficient as it was by the time 1.12 rolled around. for having anythign close to a vanilla experience, 1.12 was the nail in the coffin from day one. that beind said, im still enjoying classic for what it is, but its not vanilla.

you do realise mc was cleared in lvling greens and half the group not even being 60,also many people have been 20 maning it,im pretty sure that easily made up for the 1.12 difference,i mean seriously...how delusional can a person be to think that it would take people WEEEKS to learn ....how...to...GET OUT OF THE FIRE DEREK!!! /facepalm

the only difference from 1.12 to old is that the bosses would have taken a few extra minutes to kill,it doesnt make them mecanicaly challengind to the point of MC LASTING WEEEEKS

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I doubt that there are more than 10 - 20% of retail players still playing in classic, i stopped playing like 8 months ago and most of my guild back in classic moved back to retail like 2 or 3 months ago.

same here,played until first mc clear and pre bis,it simply was far to booring,and out of all my retail friends(i got around 70 ish),literaly only ONE stuck with it....so i find it kinda odd how OP thinks retail players are ruining classic...by...not playing it?

[Synical123]

If Vanilla wasn't made for min-maxers then there wouldn't be only one build that was viable for every class.

What a silly silly thing to say lol

[TheRevenantHero]

What a silly silly thing to say lol

Very constructive.

[Synical123]

Very constructive.

Oh I’m sorry are we suppose to take thoughts like this serious? A game is made for min/maxers because it’s capable of being min/maxed? Or better yet because only one spec is viable? What. How on earth does this make any sense whatsoever

[Gorsameth]

So has Classic successfully recaptured the vanilla mage of old? From the little time I spent on thei game, it was less social and friendly than Nostalrius. I think the retail edgelords tried Classic, whereas Nostalrius had the actual vanilla players. The pattern to note here, though, is that the farther away we get from vanilla, the more the quality deteriorates.

Classic does not erase the last 16 years of growth you as a person went through, its not a time machine and doesn't cause amnesia.
You will never recapture the vanilla magic because the person you where back then no longer exists.

[Daymanmb]

I don't recall vanilla having boosts, contemporary bro-gamers, etc.

Either you didnt play or you were oblivious lol

[Mirishka]

So has Classic successfully recaptured the vanilla mage of old? From the little time I spent on thei game, it was less social and friendly than Nostalrius. I think the retail edgelords tried Classic, whereas Nostalrius had the actual vanilla players. The pattern to note here, though, is that the farther away we get from vanilla, the more the quality deteriorates.

Yes because its totally Blizzard's fault that so many players prefer the 'say nothing, gogogogogo-I-only-have-5-minutes' playstyle. Oh wait, it isn't.

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Classic does not erase the last 16 years of growth you as a person went through, its not a time machine and doesn't cause amnesia.
You will never recapture the vanilla magic because the person you where back then no longer exists.

Careful now, common sense isn't popular around here.

[vitor210]

So has Classic successfully recaptured the vanilla mage of old? From the little time I spent on thei game, it was less social and friendly than Nostalrius. I think the retail edgelords tried Classic, whereas Nostalrius had the actual vanilla players. The pattern to note here, though, is that the farther away we get from vanilla, the more the quality deteriorates.

I find it funny that people collectively see Nostalrius as the pinacle of vanilla, but the fact is that the server wasn't that great when it wasn't "mainstream". It had A LOT of issues and bugs that you don't see on Classic, and it was only famous bc it was the least buggy of all the other vanilla servers, which btw vanilla wasn't that much sought after in the PS scene, TBC and specially Wotlk were more common. In terms of actual quality, Nostalrius was shit and people praise it bc of the rose tinted glasses that everyone uses, plus the fact that the server pretty much got famous after being a "martyr" in the PS scene after the cease and desist letter from blizzard

[Hinastorm]

Nope, classic was fun for a while, but it's way too easy.

They didn't "present an authentic vanilla experience" like they claimed their goal was.

If they truly believed in that goal, they would of buffed raids to account for being on the 1.12 patch, and immensely increased player knowledge.

Don't let the #nochanges smoothbrains trick you into thinking literally no changes makes any sense.

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Classic does not erase the last 16 years of growth you as a person went through, its not a time machine and doesn't cause amnesia.
You will never recapture the vanilla magic because the person you where back then no longer exists.

Re-capture the magic? Ya, probably not.

Re-capture the difficulty? They could of done any number of things to make raids harder to "create an authentic vanilla experience" like they claimed their goal was. They failed in that goal.

[NihilSustinet]

you do realise mc was cleared in lvling greens and half the group not even being 60,also many people have been 20 maning it,im pretty sure that easily made up for the 1.12 difference,i mean seriously...how delusional can a person be to think that it would take people WEEEKS to learn ....how...to...GET OUT OF THE FIRE DEREK!!! /facepalm

the only difference from 1.12 to old is that the bosses would have taken a few extra minutes to kill,it doesnt make them mecanicaly challengind to the point of MC LASTING WEEEEKS

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same here,played until first mc clear and pre bis,it simply was far to booring,and out of all my retail friends(i got around 70 ish),literaly only ONE stuck with it....so i find it kinda odd how OP thinks retail players are ruining classic...by...not playing it?

i feel like you didnt read anything i said.

[Celarent]

The first couple of weeks felt transportive but it became clear that a large number of players, certainly the most vocal and influential for Blizzard's eventual decisions on phase releases, were just mach'ing through levels.

I added a lot of people to my friends list when we were just, yanno, neighborhood kids in Lakeshore, and couldn't believe how far ahead they'd be a couple days later.

It seemed an ironic combination of Vanilla's incredible time commitment for leveling past the mid-30s and WoW's remaining player base, 15 years later, of content steamshovels.

Saving grace is that Classic has the best of both group and solo leveling content. Pick a class and play it as intended and more than half your quests are engaging puzzles. I actually resubbed this week and merrily creeping into the 50s.

[deenman]

i feel like you didnt read anything i said.

you said mc would take weeks if it launched as vanila,didnt need to read more

[chrisnumbers]

Classic is Vanilla. But we're in 2020. Minmax culture has infected every aspect of every game, whereas in 2004 it was nearly nonexistent.
Easy answer.

[Toby451]

. I think the retail edgelords tried Classic, whereas Nostalrius had the actual vanilla players.

Interesting. Because from my PoV of playing retail the last year, the community has been infinitely better since classic came out. All of those "retail edgelord" that poison the community seem to be mostly old players dreaming of the "good ol' days" when WoW was still "good". Stuck living in the year 2005. Thankfully most of them seem to have jumped ship to Classic. They ruined retail for years. Now they have ruined classic. They will ruin TBC, WotLK and any future servers as well.



I just hope they mostly stay off retail, it has been nice. Also, Nostalrius didn't have the "actual" vanilla players, it just had a drastically smaller community. The bigger any game gets, the more bad apples its going to attract.

[ZazuuPriest]

Does it matter what anyone here says? Most people accepted that classic just wasnt as awesome as they wanted it to be and the remaining vanilla extrem fans will always move the goal and make excuses no matter what.

However I like how you try to blame the failing of classic onto the retail player. It makes it all again about a outside force which poor classic couldnt defend it self again, giving you the ability to not defend the game, but just blame the retail player. Perfect touch 8/10 .....or well 5/10 as this is done for years now and kinda boring.

lol wut?

/10

[crakerjack]

I think I would have enjoyed classic more if I chose a meta class. I picked shaman because it's what I played back in 05', but back then I wasn't a tryhard and barely raided MC/ZG before TBC released. I think I would have enjoyed myself more if I made a warrior, rogue or mage. I don't genuinely enjoy healing which is what you're forced to do if you want to raid as a shaman and I didn't like how subpar elemental/enhancements DPS was compared to the more meta specs. It would be different if classic was more balanced, but it's not. Atleast with TBC classic, specs will be more tuned and there won't be such an obvious gap in performance between specs. As long as you parse 90% or higher, you should be able to complete any raid as any spec. That's not the case in classic, you either roll X, Y or Z specific spec or you ride the bench.

Eager to play TBC classic though, will definitely reroll a more meta-flavored class next time around.