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  1. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by Mendzia View Post
    I would not say that getting max level within 10-15h is 'good'.
    Painless, easy and probably enjoyable? Yes.
    Good? Not even close.

    Good leveling is for me when you are happy to invest several days or even weeks.
    When getting quest item seems like an upgrade that you are happy with.
    It should be focused on the progress of your character and not on the reaching the goal fast as possible.
    But it is just only my opinion...
    I would counter by saying that that experience can be found in the current expansion and end-game.

    Making progression through old expansions tedious is not really a good way to go about creating the environment you're looking for. Moreover, the game has grown to such a degree that doing so would result in a truly bloated process rather than a fun adventure. That's what we had before now: A process, not an adventure.

    This is why I think it's good what they're doing with chromie time. Although the balance isn't quite right to make 1-50 take an entire expansion, I'm not convinced it needs to be. Maybe there should be sn option for that to appease people looking for what you described, but for those interested in leveling fast to reach the current expansion, the way it is now is very good.

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by Azgarde View Post
    Not sure if troll or serious ? RPG. Role Playing Game. It's all about character progression and, well, leveling duh.
    Even good ol' D&D Board Game is about leveling. Hell, friggin MTG added leveling with their planeswalker.
    All JRPGs have leveling, every MMORPG has leveling, even more action-paced games like The Division has leveling.
    I suspect some kind of trolling here
    dnd is most definitely not about levelling. It's about the story. Arbitrary levels for the sake of levels are meaningless. The superior game is the one that's fun to play. Your fantasy of spending 1000 hours to max level is not fun.

  3. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewhan View Post
    its near impossible to go back to that humble sweet mentality when you've been a min maxer since TBC. It would be great but its like once you have seen the red pill truth its not possible to just go back to purposely slowing yourself down by reading quests you've already read/done 10+ years ago. I get what you're saying though.
    Maybe for People with no Willpower. I was a hardcore raider from TBC through MoP. I went back to just taking my time enjoying the games fairly easily. Spreadsheets arent fun.

  4. #284
    Levelling to max-level is finally not feeling like slowly trying to castrate yourself with a rusty knife and ofcourse ppl complain its "too fast".

    If you want your levelling experience to take weeks, dont play every living hour of the day perhaps? Spread it out more, problem solved!

  5. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    You REALLY feel it. Hahah!

    I don't know what Blizzard expects to happen at level 30, but most classes do not get a severe power increase there.
    30 is the new 80. We used to get mastery at 78. Now we get it at 10 but maybe some guy working on scaling didn't get the memo.

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    I 100% agree. Leveling feels really great now. I’m really taking my time with some of the Wrath zones. It feels awesome that you’re actually looking forward to leveling your next alt instead of seeing it as a chore. The leveling experience is actually... *do I dare to say it*... fun now. So good job Blizz! I just still don’t trust them at all and I wouldn’t be surprised if they somehow messed it up.
    Give it a couple of weeks, maybe months then they'll probably mess it up haha ..

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    30 is the new 80. We used to get mastery at 78. Now we get it at 10 but maybe some guy working on scaling didn't get the memo.
    The interesting thing is that if you pick the wrong expansion to level in, gear acquisition can compound this problem. I found this out the hard way while leveling through "vanilla" zones in cata without using heirlooms.

    What I discovered was that while scaling means quests are relevant no matter where you go, the lower level zones haven't had their loot rewards updated. This means that you end up at level 30+ and possibly not have rings, trinkets, or even a helmet due to those equipment slots being originally intended for the later levels some zones used to be scaled for.

    Consequently, this might explain some of the longer leveling times people have been experiencing.

  8. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    The interesting thing is that if you pick the wrong expansion to level in, gear acquisition can compound this problem. I found this out the hard way while leveling through "vanilla" zones in cata without using heirlooms.

    What I discovered was that while scaling means quests are relevant no matter where you go, the lower level zones haven't had their loot rewards updated. This means that you end up at level 30+ and possibly not have rings, trinkets, or even a helmet due to those equipment slots being originally intended for the later levels some zones used to be scaled for.

    Consequently, this might explain some of the longer leveling times people have been experiencing.
    I think a lot of the leveling time disparity is just due to the difference between some people really casually playing through the zones, following the quests as normal and so on, vs. people intensely following Azeroth Autopilot routes and the like, with some people also getting a lot of XP from dungeons (which are very good XP generally), and others not doing any. And the lowest figures are people actually getting a 50 to just run them through a dungeon over and over.

    On top of this, some zones/expansions are clearly much faster XP than others.

    I suspect that has more of an impact than the stat differences from not having appropriate gear in all slots. That said they probably do need to look at addressing that issue - perhaps via drops, or some kind of "equipment package" awarded at certain levels. I'd prefer drops (even if they're super-fake and forced), because the "equipment package" thing has been kind of done to death in other MMOs.
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  9. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    On top of this, some zones/expansions are clearly much faster XP than others.
    I just compared the quest XP just one time at lvl15 between one character leveling in Ghostlands and another character leveling in BFA. ElvUI shows the % of the lvl you gain per quest under the quest xp, and this value was identical in this case. However I did not test it again at higher levels. So imo just the general zone design counts, e.g. if there are bonus quests for certain areas (Legion, WoD, BfA) or even treasures that give additional xp while playing. Imo that's also why WoD seems to be the fastest leveling right now. Fast travel routes between the questcamps.

    I like Legion leveling the most right now since the zones in general are great. Additionally the invasions still provide a lot of bonus xp above lvl30 when flying has been enables.

  10. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piesor View Post
    I just compared the quest XP just one time at lvl15 between one character leveling in Ghostlands and another character leveling in BFA. ElvUI shows the % of the lvl you gain per quest under the quest xp, and this value was identical in this case. However I did not test it again at higher levels. So imo just the general zone design counts, e.g. if there are bonus quests for certain areas (Legion, WoD, BfA) or even treasures that give additional xp while playing. Imo that's also why WoD seems to be the fastest leveling right now. Fast travel routes between the questcamps.

    I like Legion leveling the most right now since the zones in general are great. Additionally the invasions still provide a lot of bonus xp above lvl30 when flying has been enables.
    Yeah I suspect this is broadly the case - the XP is probably pretty well-balanced, but the difference in design on quest routes and just even how long, physically, some quests take to do (spawn rates, number of monsters, how apart they are, etc. can factor in) can make a big difference.
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  11. #291
    Been doing a Grizzly Hills full clear from 15 to 40 just because I like the area, there is a shitload of traveling time newer questlines don't have. Exp per quest might be the same, still takes a lot longer.

  12. #292
    I fail to understand why some people think it's "too fast" and that they consider this to be a bad thing.

    WoW isn't classic anymore, where the adventure was the leveling process. Modern WoW is about getting to max level to see actual content. You can always go back and relive some quest lines.

    The most common argument i'm seeing is that "you cant actually connect to your character and the story of WoW". Bro's, before this new experience, you only got to live through maybe 25% of the past expansions. Now you can literally feel the entire story of an expansion and be satisfied. You can always go back after that and do some other expansions.

    Connecting to your character before max level is nonsense, imo. Before, every few levels you would be a completely different toon, followed by the climax of reaching max level and completely changing the feel of the character anyways.

    Someone please explain to me why anyone would think a shorter, cleaner, more fluid leveling system is a bad thing.
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  13. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by Runicblood View Post
    I fail to understand why some people think it's "too fast" and that they consider this to be a bad thing.

    WoW isn't classic anymore, where the adventure was the leveling process. Modern WoW is about getting to max level to see actual content. You can always go back and relive some quest lines.

    The most common argument i'm seeing is that "you cant actually connect to your character and the story of WoW". Bro's, before this new experience, you only got to live through maybe 25% of the past expansions. Now you can literally feel the entire story of an expansion and be satisfied. You can always go back after that and do some other expansions.

    Connecting to your character before max level is nonsense, imo. Before, every few levels you would be a completely different toon, followed by the climax of reaching max level and completely changing the feel of the character anyways.

    Someone please explain to me why anyone would think a shorter, cleaner, more fluid leveling system is a bad thing.
    They are just confused and lost and opened the wrong game-client, is my guess.

  14. #294
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    The pre-patch revitalized my desire to level alts. I had over 20 characters ranging from level 15-110 waiting, with 13 of them over level 100. In the space of a few days last week I leveled I think 3 or 4 of them from the new level 45 to level 50 (then stopped, because I see no point in doing BFA content now to gear up).

    So where before I was feeling daunted going from 60 (or lower) to 120 on 10+ alts and even from ~100 to 120 on the other 13, I now feel energized to level as many as possible to level 50.

    I love that you can pick an expansion and level entirely from 10-50 in that expansion. Like I picked WoD for one toon (probably won't do that again - it's got a slow start with that Tanaan Jungle start around the DP), Cata for the other (there's so many "classic" zones to pick from), MoP for a third and already were in various expansions on other toons further along. The ones I leveled that were already in their new 40s were in Legion or BFA zones (or I moved them from Legion to BFA).

    I just feel like it freshens the leveling experience instead of only having minimal choices in where to go during those 60-110 zones. It feels like a natural extension of how they merged BC/Wrath levels, Cata/MOP levels and maybe WOD/Legion levels (don't remember).

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    I'm still miffed that "return me to the current timeline" still offers an EK and Kalimdor stuck in the Cataclysm... But hopefully, that'll go away eventually.
    So happy to never level in the old 1-60 content ever again/until it's revamped proper.
    This, did 'em all for loremaster but despite loving it once or even a few times it often just didn't measure up at all.
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  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by Piesor View Post
    I like Legion leveling the most right now since the zones in general are great. Additionally the invasions still provide a lot of bonus xp above lvl30 when flying has been enables.
    I really think WoD is going to end up being king of exp, unless legion treasure chests actually got fixed and finally award exp properly. The combination of bonus quests, treasures, and good quest layout has to be a massive difference. And Spires of Arak having the exp bonus from the inn would only speed things up more(unless blizz cut the exp of everything in that zone to counterbalance). Spires also has those treasures that give a little rested exp, which would stack with heirlooms.

    Still, I suppose it needs to be tested to be 100% sure.

  17. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by Runicblood View Post
    I fail to understand why some people think it's "too fast" and that they consider this to be a bad thing.

    WoW isn't classic anymore, where the adventure was the leveling process. Modern WoW is about getting to max level to see actual content. You can always go back and relive some quest lines.

    The most common argument i'm seeing is that "you cant actually connect to your character and the story of WoW". Bro's, before this new experience, you only got to live through maybe 25% of the past expansions. Now you can literally feel the entire story of an expansion and be satisfied. You can always go back after that and do some other expansions.

    Connecting to your character before max level is nonsense, imo. Before, every few levels you would be a completely different toon, followed by the climax of reaching max level and completely changing the feel of the character anyways.

    Someone please explain to me why anyone would think a shorter, cleaner, more fluid leveling system is a bad thing.
    Because we were sold "play the expansion" and instead got "play 25% of the expansion". I had at least hoped some sort of effort would have been put into this system, rather than leaving it to the interns as it so clearly was.

    And for the record, leveling through an entire expac's leveling zones is STILL much faster than what we had previously.

  18. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinitemeridian View Post
    Because we were sold "play the expansion" and instead got "play 25% of the expansion". I had at least hoped some sort of effort would have been put into this system, rather than leaving it to the interns as it so clearly was.

    And for the record, leveling through an entire expac's leveling zones is STILL much faster than what we had previously.
    This isn't a particularly compelling criticism, especially as it's wild hyperbole (maybe in WoD you can finish doing 25% of the expansion, but you sure can't in any of the zones I've played, not unless you're actually spamming dungeons and just questing between that).

    It looks like for most people, who aren't using AAP or spamming dungeons or the like, you're probably looking at 50-70% of the zones in an expansion. In a lot of cases, that's actually quite similar to what it took to go from min to max level for that expansion. With BfA I barely touched one of the zones going 110-120, likewise Legion.

    Let's assume it's only 50% though, all you're really calling for is turning like, 12 hours leveling into 24 hours. I'm not sure that's the huge improvement you seem to think it is.

    For people like you, what I'd prefer to see is an option that just automatically stops you hitting 50, and lets you keep going at 49 (rather than having to duck out at 49 and freeze XP), and dings you when you finish the main storyline or something. Either that or maybe some sort of heirloom/toy that reduces XP gain but gives you more loot whilst leveling or something.
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  19. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    .

    For people like you, what I'd prefer to see is an option that just automatically stops you hitting 50, and lets you keep going at 49 (rather than having to duck out at 49 and freeze XP), and dings you when you finish the main storyline or something. Either that or maybe some sort of heirloom/toy that reduces XP gain but gives you more loot whilst leveling or something.
    Ideally Blizzard would take the time and attention to detail to create an option that fully scaled difficulty, and adjusted exp gains, so that it literally took the entire expansion to go from 10 to 50.

    Eaxh expansion would have it's own progression curve because they're all set up differently. And it would absolutely be super inefficient. But the point would be to recreate the feeling of replaying that expansion to a degree.

    I don't know. Maybe they'll just do a "Classic" version of each expansion eventually, and this will be a moot point.

  20. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Ideally Blizzard would take the time and attention to detail to create an option that fully scaled difficulty, and adjusted exp gains, so that it literally took the entire expansion to go from 10 to 50.

    Eaxh expansion would have it's own progression curve because they're all set up differently. And it would absolutely be super inefficient. But the point would be to recreate the feeling of replaying that expansion to a degree.

    I don't know. Maybe they'll just do a "Classic" version of each expansion eventually, and this will be a moot point.
    The problem with this approach is that Blizzard won't ever be able to predict or know what method you'll use, how many mobs you'll kill along the way, how many chests you go out of your way to find (in zones where the chests give xp), how much profession gathering you do, how many dungeons you do, how many PvP BG's you do, which expansions or zones you decide to jump around to how many heirlooms you have or decide to wear to extend your rested xp, etc...

    There are simply far too many variables for Blizzard to try and account for all of them to ever be able to fine tune this experience, and as others have already said we're talking a difference of a few hours. Where if someone TRULY cares about leveling through the expansions completely, they can run to their capital city in a few minutes and turn off xp, and this option is available to anyone at any time.

    IMO there's simply not enough of a difference to make it worth the time and effort on their part. The only thing I do agree with is making sure each expansion equalizes the item rewards from questing so you get similar levels of power as you level up through the expansions. Instead of the disjointed gear reward mess of the early expansions.

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