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  1. #301
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    The problem with this approach is that Blizzard won't ever be able to predict or know what method you'll use, how many mobs you'll kill along the way, how many chests you go out of your way to find (in zones where the chests give xp), how much profession gathering you do, how many dungeons you do, how many PvP BG's you do, which expansions or zones you decide to jump around to how many heirlooms you have or decide to wear to extend your rested xp, etc...

    There are simply far too many variables for Blizzard to try and account for all of them to ever be able to fine tune this experience, and as others have already said we're talking a difference of a few hours. Where if someone TRULY cares about leveling through the expansions completely, they can run to their capital city in a few minutes and turn off xp, and this option is available to anyone at any time.

    IMO there's simply not enough of a difference to make it worth the time and effort on their part. The only thing I do agree with is making sure each expansion equalizes the item rewards from questing so you get similar levels of power as you level up through the expansions. Instead of the disjointed gear reward mess of the early expansions.
    Yep, even current expansions have problems with tuning exactly how much of the zones questlines you can do before hitting max level (for instance, I NEVER finished all questlines in BFA, not even with my main, I was max level way before finishing the last zone, and I started before any changes to xp).

    Tuning all expnasions with their own xp curve line and trying to account for different variables is too much work for little gain.

  2. #302
    Quote Originally Posted by Morae View Post
    Since Im feeling this is the most dumb idea ever to solve this, I repeat what I said earlier. A post that was posted after what you just quoted, but this is the last time I do so because I don't want to get tied to this discussion more than I already have.

    Is leveling anymore leveling, if you do not actually level anymore? Do not get skills? Talents? Higher level gear?

    Another guy already said "No" and then proceeded to tell me that leveling is bad content and I get subbar experience by doing so. I do not agree. If its content I like to do then its not subbar content. I have been leveling alts over and over since vanilla. Its what I do when I get done/bored of the subbar end game content that blizz spews for us to grind. See what I did there! Surprise, there are different opinions!

    Over time I have liked to say "wow is good waste of time". I feel like its become less "good". Its also not black and white thing. I will still play SL at least until I run out of content to do and get bored of leveling alts that I do not feel like I really even got to play. Its not "like it all or quit!!!!", like I have been basically told elsewhere.
    You sound like you're just terribly nitpicky and just can't be appeased. Honestly I feel emotionally exausted reading any of your posts. It sounds like if you don't like the leveling progression, whining here won't bring it back. If you want something slower, your sub gets you the option to level in Classic, which is much slower. Don't like either option? I don't think anyone here can solve your problem.

  3. #303
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    The problem with this approach is that Blizzard won't ever be able to predict or know what method you'll use, how many mobs you'll kill along the way, how many chests you go out of your way to find (in zones where the chests give xp), how much profession gathering you do, how many dungeons you do, how many PvP BG's you do, which expansions or zones you decide to jump around to how many heirlooms you have or decide to wear to extend your rested xp, etc...

    There are simply far too many variables for Blizzard to try and account for all of them to ever be able to fine tune this experience, and as others have already said we're talking a difference of a few hours. Where if someone TRULY cares about leveling through the expansions completely, they can run to their capital city in a few minutes and turn off xp, and this option is available to anyone at any time.

    IMO there's simply not enough of a difference to make it worth the time and effort on their part. The only thing I do agree with is making sure each expansion equalizes the item rewards from questing so you get similar levels of power as you level up through the expansions. Instead of the disjointed gear reward mess of the early expansions.
    I mean, they should have already factored those in when the expansion was created and they were tuning the leveling experience then. They just need to adjust the numbers to better account for 10-50. I know it's not simple or easy, but what we got screams of a serious lack of effort in my opinion.

    And to the poster above, I recognize that most expansions didn't require you to finish all the zones, but there is a world of difference between hitting max level in Gorgrond as opposed to Spires of Arak. They should be tuned in such a way that if you stick to the main story only, you'll hit max. If you want to go off and do side quests and you hit max level early, I don't think that needs to be accounted for as much.

  4. #304
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    The problem with this approach is that Blizzard won't ever be able to predict or know what method you'll use.
    Not exactly, no. But they can at least get in the ballpark. As it stands now, even with no heirlooms, enchants, or other buffs, you can still easily outlevel an expansion in only a handful of zones without ever reaching end-game areas.

    How do they do it? Simple. Just go back to using quests that don't scale, where a player can outlevel them and make them worth less exp.

  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by infinitemeridian View Post
    I mean, they should have already factored those in when the expansion was created and they were tuning the leveling experience then. They just need to adjust the numbers to better account for 10-50. I know it's not simple or easy, but what we got screams of a serious lack of effort in my opinion.

    And to the poster above, I recognize that most expansions didn't require you to finish all the zones, but there is a world of difference between hitting max level in Gorgrond as opposed to Spires of Arak. They should be tuned in such a way that if you stick to the main story only, you'll hit max. If you want to go off and do side quests and you hit max level early, I don't think that needs to be accounted for as much.
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Not exactly, no. But they can at least get in the ballpark. As it stands now, even with no heirlooms, enchants, or other buffs, you can still easily outlevel an expansion in only a handful of zones without ever reaching end-game areas.

    How do they do it? Simple. Just go back to using quests that don't scale, where a player can outlevel them and make them worth less exp.
    Fair points, but IMO I still don't think it would be worth the time and effort needed to do so given that there's a universal option available to players to stop leveling altogether and continue questing where they want to quest. I'll admit, it's absolutely not elegant and more of a blunt instrument, but it's effective, and it solves an overall minor problem.

  6. #306
    The Insane DeltrusDisc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Great Destiny Man View Post
    What about Chromie time?
    What is it? I am so confused when people say Chromie time and reference going to talk to her and stuff...
    "For Teldrassil."

  7. #307
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    I'm loving it.

    The level scaling is just brilliant, makes questing feel infinitely better.
    I've been pretty much exclusively sticking with BFA for questing.

    I pick an expansion to queue for dungeons, TBC & Wrath and are my goto, relatively short for the most part and good quests for the extra xp.
    They really should add the loot bag to all dungeons. Tried running BFA dungeons, but you end up with ancient gear before long.
    Some dungeon damage scaling can be a bit iffy though...
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  8. #308
    Quote Originally Posted by DeltrusDisc View Post
    What is it? I am so confused when people say Chromie time and reference going to talk to her and stuff...
    If you go to Stormwind/Orgrimmar you'll see a little hourglass on the map to show where Chromie is. Talking to her allows you to choose which timeline to play in, which directs you towards a certain expansion. It'll also scale the mobs in those zones to your level, as well as lock the LFG tool to dungeons meant for that expansion.

    If you create a new character and choose to level up in Exile's Reach, by default it'll put you on the BfA timeline and push you towards those quests. At any time after reaching Stormwind/Orgrimmar you can talk to Chromie to change that. I'm guessing, since I've not done it yet, that if you choose your racial starting zone then i'll place you in the Cata timeline by default, but I might be wrong.

    You can swap timelines as often as you want and even have Legion's timeline running, while questing in Azeroth or even BfA if you really wanted to, but the zones won't always scale correctly.

  9. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Fair points, but IMO I still don't think it would be worth the time and effort needed to do so given that there's a universal option available to players to stop leveling altogether and continue questing where they want to quest. I'll admit, it's absolutely not elegant and more of a blunt instrument, but it's effective, and it solves an overall minor problem.
    I agree for the most part. I was just looking into theoretical possibilities. Not that I really expect Blizzard to tune things for levelers that much.

  10. #310
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    @schwarzkopf. Did this fix it?
    Not on the character I reported it on, seems if you did the lodeorean scenario before the fix - you didn't get the fix.

    But I checked yesterday and my other 110 (->45) does allow me access to the relevant quest.

    Due to COVID-19, Germany is running out of sausages and cheese.
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  11. #311
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Interestingly enough, however, I also did not get any quests directing me to talk to magni. After a little bit of google, it turns out you won't get the quests with magni until that character obtains a piece of azerite gear(Shoulders/Head/Chest). Which is really odd, but you might try mailing a piece such as a black empire BoA if you have one. Or possibly looting one from an invasion in Pandaria or Uldum(although those might not even show until level 50).
    HoA is given at Level 50 now. Mailing Black Empire / Benthic will give non-azerite pieces until you get a piece of Azerite gear as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    I know - that's the problem, I had no way of getting to the BFA content that I was meant to do.

    Pre patch - level 110 would go to BfA.
    Post patch - same toon has no way of going to BfA.

    It is a bug, which they aren't going to do anything about.
    That's because it is not a bug at all (and yes I've tested on multiple levels and different accounts). You've picked up a quest and dropped it at some point and need to figure out what part of the chain you are on. Your best bet is to use a Quest Completion script and check each quest in the quest line.

  12. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    That's because it is not a bug at all
    Turns out it was a bug, it was fixed - but too late for the toon I was levelling. Was fixed after I'd completed the scenario.

    It was fixed for when I started the Warlock.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    You've picked up a quest and dropped it at some point and need to figure out what part of the chain you are on.
    All in the space of under 2 seconds - I'm worse than a gold fish.

    I finished the scenario - and before I knew it I'd taken the follow up quest, deleted it and magically made it vanish from the quest giver. I'm impressed

    Due to COVID-19, Germany is running out of sausages and cheese.
    The government considers this to be the Wurst Käse scenario

  13. #313
    Some of these dungeon bosses are really really REALLY badly attuned with the new changes.

    I'm looking at you Shirrak the Dead Watcher.

  14. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsOurEric View Post
    Some of these dungeon bosses are really really REALLY badly attuned with the new changes.

    I'm looking at you Shirrak the Dead Watcher.
    You sure about that with Shirrak being badly tuned? What was he doing that was abnormal?

    I ask because he was 100% capable of wiping groups repeatedly both 8.X as well. People have to actually know what they're doing (i.e. pull him as far as away from the healer as possible, so the healer can duck out of the aura to let the debuff drop), and to do good DPS. The debuff aura he pulses is one of the nastiest things in any dungeon. I definitely see that if he had too many HP or did too much damage on top of that, he'd be a nightmare, and probably just not possible for some groups.

    The end boss of Auchindoun was also very good at killing tanks in 8.X (both very much as they were in WoD).

    That said some bosses are definitely very SPICY compared to how they were. I had to kite Ramstein the Gorger repeatedly as a Prot Paladin, having had very few problems with any other bosses. And healers actually need to heal a lot of the time, even blowing all cooldowns, which, if combined with low DPS from the DPS, can lead to a lot more alarming situations. Cataclysm dungeons also remain exceptionally painful/punishing.
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  15. #315
    I do like the faster leveling but it just still feels weird to me with all the time traveling nonsense. Before it felt natural and like an adventure and I guess you could still quest that way if you wanted but with the way it is now it's clearly designed for you to talk to Chromie to go "back in time" to quest in old zones. Which doesn't really make sense because you can go and quest in those areas while being in the "current timeline" so it's not like Chromie is actually sending you back in time. There's no difference.

    I think instead what they should've done was revamp and update all the main storylines for each zone to keep them up to date with current events. From there you would then just choose where you want to go like we used to instead of playing Back to the Future with Chromie. It's just now it feels more instanced rather than being an actual RPG adventure which is pretty much an almost absent aspect of WoW these days.
    I'd buy that for a dollar.

  16. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grubenwolf View Post
    I do like the faster leveling but it just still feels weird to me with all the time traveling nonsense. Before it felt natural and like an adventure and I guess you could still quest that way if you wanted but with the way it is now it's clearly designed for you to talk to Chromie to go "back in time" to quest in old zones. Which doesn't really make sense because you can go and quest in those areas while being in the "current timeline" so it's not like Chromie is actually sending you back in time. There's no difference.

    I think instead what they should've done was revamp and update all the main storylines for each zone to keep them up to date with current events. From there you would then just choose where you want to go like we used to instead of playing Back to the Future with Chromie. It's just now it feels more instanced rather than being an actual RPG adventure which is pretty much an almost absent aspect of WoW these days.
    "Instead of doing something which works great for 90% of people and took a moderate amount of effort, they should have done something which would have taken easily an entire expansion's worth of effort, and which would have pleased me, personally!"

    How do you not see that would have been a gigantic effort that would have crippled SL?
    "A youtuber said so."

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  17. #317
    Quote Originally Posted by Thelyron View Post
    Leveling is an outdated and boring concept. Be glad it's still there at all instead of being removed completely like it should be.
    The comment you quoted is over the top and so is yours. Leveling is not outdated, it's in many, many games still and is one of the pillars of the WoW experience. Your radical view is the minority one.

  18. #318
    Quote Originally Posted by Grubenwolf View Post
    I think instead what they should've done was revamp and update all the main storylines for each zone to keep them up to date with current events. From there you would then just choose where you want to go like we used to instead of playing Back to the Future with Chromie. It's just now it feels more instanced rather than being an actual RPG adventure which is pretty much an almost absent aspect of WoW these days.
    I think that's coming up, they just didn't have the time to get it in by Shadowlands. Almost certainly expect it for 10.0.

    Lots of foreshadowing that something is going to happen in the Eastern Kingdoms next expansion (centered around Turalyon, Calia and the Scarlets) and some stuff points towards Kalimdor as well.

  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by Stricks View Post
    The comment you quoted is over the top and so is yours. Leveling is not outdated, it's in many, many games still and is one of the pillars of the WoW experience. Your radical view is the minority one.
    No, it's not over the top. I actually agree with it.

    Think about it for a second: You level in an expansion and reach the actual "end game" in what? A day? A week? Then you spend the next 12-18 months at level cap during the remainder of the expansion. In that context, leveling makes almost no sense at all. Simply squishing the current level cap down to 50, and tacking on 10 more levels is a mostly pointless process. Why not just add the new systems and expansion mechanics to the existing cap, and increase item level(or squish it when necessary)?

    What the game really needs is better use of power progression, including more lateral unlocks as the expansion continues at level cap. Adding new levels to the level cap in WoW is a completely artificial and meaningless piece of "progression" when looked at more objectively, despite what other games are doing.

  20. #320
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    No, it's not over the top. I actually agree with it.

    Think about it for a second: You level in an expansion and reach the actual "end game" in what? A day? A week? Then you spend the next 12-18 months at level cap during the remainder of the expansion. In that context, leveling makes almost no sense at all. Simply squishing the current level cap down to 50, and tacking on 10 more levels is a mostly pointless process. Why not just add the new systems and expansion mechanics to the existing cap, and increase item level(or squish it when necessary)?

    What the game really needs is better use of power progression, including more lateral unlocks as the expansion continues at level cap. Adding new levels to the level cap in WoW is a completely artificial and meaningless piece of "progression" when looked at more objectively, despite what other games are doing.
    I actually agree that leveling is a tired and outdated concept. But for one reason in particular - it is now only one of, and by far the shortest 'progression' system we have in game. We level the neck, the cloak, the ring, our weapon. We level our gear, we level our bolt on system, whatever that may be. we level through M+, through pvp rankings. The process of getting from A-B to "start" the actual game is no doubt enjoyable for some, and for those people, i am glad story content exists. But i see no reason story content cannot exist as its own progression system, released in LARGE chunks as a raid tier releases.

    This way, when a new season launches, Raiders get their new raid, M+ get a fresh season, PvP get a fresh season, and those who want a story experience get a huge chunk of story to work through at their own pace.

    To be clear, im not saying leveling SHOULD be removed, but I certainly think there is a strong case to be made supporting the claim it is outdated and not actually needed in the current game. I also agree with your comment about it actually being a TINY part of an expansion, and yet obviously takes up a HUGE amount of development time.

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