Leveling experience is good now.

[slime]

I understand the release of Classic a little better now. It always seemed a strange thing because you effectively built "most" of your classic player base from your retail player base. But it is easy to see how they are two very different games now. If you really really miss or long for an extended leveling experience.. Classic really is the answer for you.

[Ealyssa]

Instead, blizz breaks it more and more and makes it easier, which ruins it.

It's not easier tho, by average kill time it is harder now.

It is shorter. But shorter doesn't mean easier. Classic mistake

[Unholyground]

Rofl, no, it is not. I am leveling an alt for the first time in years, I+m normally boosting them as leveling is not quite what it used to be anyway, so rather save my time.

Now I gave it a go. The system concept is GOOD, really, I love being able to pick an X pack and go though it.
However, there are 2 huge problems:

1_ We should be half as strong as we are. We are one shooting all mobs.
2_ It should take 2 or 3 times as long to level. It is currently way too fast, you cant even do one X pack content, maybe 2 areas at best then you are level 50 already.

The game is not about the leveling experience though, it is and always has been about the end game since TBC and placing barriers to entry like slow leveling is a deterrent for the vast majority of old and new players alike.

[Tylanthia]

I fail to understand why some people think it's "too fast" and that they consider this to be a bad thing. [...]Someone please explain to me why anyone would think a shorter, cleaner, more fluid leveling system is a bad thing.

Personally, I don't enjoy completing 1-2 quest and gaining a level--I'd rather it be spaced out a bit--give me time to play with my new ability and adapt to it. I also like to complete every quest, treasure, dungeon, rare mob in a zone while I am leveling.

Other than the speed, I like Chromie time. I've been leveling an Alliance Paladin and re-visiting one of my favorite WOD zones--Shadowmoon Valley. The main issue I have though is my garrison is upgrading way, way too fast--I haven't even completed half the first zone and it's level 2 with a mine and garden. There's no time to stop and smell the roses like there was when WOD was content (or grind gold given how expensive the blueprints are compared to the quest gold I am earning). So I'm going to stop XP once I hit 40 so I have some time to at least get to the other WOD zones and enjoy them.

WoW isn't classic anymore, where the adventure was the leveling process. Modern WoW is about getting to max level to see actual content. You can always go back and relive some quest lines.

Max level BFA sucks IMO. I can tolerate it on one character, but I honestly have more fun going through older content on alts (ideally, at level--hence chromie time with locked experience). Like I'd do Argus unlock on an alt any day over that legendary cloak quest grind. Surmar was fun for me to progress through. Najatar not so much.

If you really really miss or long for an extended leveling experience.. Classic really is the answer for you.

While some people really enjoy Classic, it really isn't. There are all sorts of issues that people have with it--even those of us that like leveling. What I think I truly want is a modern WoW with a classicish philosophy. Short of that, I guess I'm waiting for a wrath server.

[ReleaseDay]

I'm having a lot of fun levelling new toons. Before the prepatch hit, I had 18 toons at max level, each taking a couple of weeks of on and off playing. Now, I'm managing to get toons to 50 within a few days.

I'm trying to get 48 toons to max level (4 of each of the 12 classes so I can have each class in all 4 covenants). Since patch day, I've got a monk and a rogue to 50, so that's 20 max level toons so far.

So... Yeah I have a lot of stuff to do in WoW until Shadowlands goes live.

while i also enjoy leveling alts (even did way back in the day when it was slow af) and its really fast now, keep in mind the quite retarded 50 character cap per account. You'll end up having characters that you've spent some time on, perhaps gotten a nice xmog, just to have to delete them in order to make one of the new allied races... Unless they increase this cap, which i really hope they do..

[Akibaboy]

Sounds like fanfiction.

The reason people hated leveling is because as expansions heaped up, so did the leveling experience. The group that most fellates the notion of long leveling (Classic players and enthusiasts) utterly ignore that there is a massive gaping chasm of difference between leveling through questing or dungeoning in one or two continents and leveling when there's more than five expansions that you have to go through to be able to play with your friends.

He's actually kind of right.

I personally don't care how long it takes. 5 hours... 20 hours... whatever. But the simple fact is that they've made every single thing you do in that time so unbelievably trivial that it begs the question why I'm even doing it. I'm 2-shotting mobs while wearing gear from 20 levels ago... it's a problem that nothing matters.

And his timeline is absolutely right:
- Heirlooms in WotLK existed to provide a slight XP boost and the weapon smoothed out the issue of the fact that as XP was reduced for expansions, you'd sometimes go long stretches of levels without finding a weapon upgrade since you weren't doing as many quests / dungeons before moving to the next location, which in turn made combat feel terrible.
- Cata made combat trivial and dumb. Enemies posed 0 threat of any kind, just pull 7-8 of them and mash buttons because they do no damage and have no health. Leaving zones when they were half way done. Quest flow improved, but in doing so they replaced the stories with Rambo and CSI memes so honestly who the hell wants to even do them since they're not WoW stories anymore.
- MoP gave us the new talent system and baked previously earned power via talents right into the class at level 10... which means you now could guaranteed kill everything in 2 hits on any class. Aimed Shot outright does more damage than the enemy's HP pool, Priests can just dot up a whole camp and stand there shielded and they all die 2 seconds later. Heirlooms have achieved full proliferation so now when you join a random dungeon, you're just chasing after the fully heirloomed Hunter soloing the place... essentially making one of the game's best features a hallway running sim.
- WoD number squish broke things more. All leveling pre-WoD was basically non-tent.

- Legion... the shining light of 7.3.5: More choice of where to play, combat numbers retuned to offer better engagement, XP retooled to fit the brackets of where you wanted to play. It really looked like someone at Blizzard sat down and understood where they'd gone wrong and made a great effort to fix it. The players lost their minds and lit the forums ablaze... because you know, they'd actually have to play the game now. Not outleveling zones / the next piece of relevant XP being at arm's length meant that speed levelers were actually finding it faster, but all the forum warriors saw was the XP number being bigger than before and raged regardless.

- BfA, at launch the tuning from 7.3.5 was nerfed back into the ground after people complained about the squish... combat was again trivial and whack-a-mole

So yes, just as Die was saying... the history of leveling is one of it being slapped with the nerf bat, everyone saying its great, rinse and repeat over and over. The choose your expansion feature is honestly pretty great! I just was hoping that with the reduced times they'd allow us to experience some sort of threat, friction, engagement, something... Earning abilities and growing your character is still just as automated and pointless as it was made 8 or so years ago.

[Chucknourishlol]

As a player with 10+ max level characters for a majority of WoD and Legion (Mostly for gold farming missions!) I welcome the new changes to leveling. End game has always been the ultimate goal (for me) and leveling after the 7.3.5 patch felt like a chore. The 7.3.5 patch killed alt leveling only because they wanted people to "earn" the heritage armor sets.

I think the faster leveling experience is better for new and experienced players as it allows them to quickly get to end game and doesn't have that intimidating feeling that getting to max level is going to take them a month+ of constant leveling. People don't have the same attention span as they used to, if something is boring and slow they will quit and find something else.

I can understand why some people like the slower leveling process, having more time to learn it themselves rather than following guides is a great experience in an RPG game. Maybe there could be an option to toggle a longer leveling experience which reduces experience gain by a percentage. Maybe there is a reward for a "hard mode" leveling experience.

[Akibaboy]

As a player with 10+ max level characters for a majority of WoD and Legion (Mostly for gold farming missions!) I welcome the new changes to leveling. End game has always been the ultimate goal (for me) and leveling after the 7.3.5 patch felt like a chore. The 7.3.5 patch killed alt leveling only because they wanted people to "earn" the heritage armor sets.

I think the faster leveling experience is better for new and experienced players as it allows them to quickly get to end game and doesn't have that intimidating feeling that getting to max level is going to take them a month+ of constant leveling. People don't have the same attention span as they used to, if something is boring and slow they will quit and find something else.

I can understand why some people like the slower leveling process, having more time to learn it themselves rather than following guides is a great experience in an RPG game. Maybe there could be an option to toggle a longer leveling experience which reduces experience gain by a percentage. Maybe there is a reward for a "hard mode" leveling experience.

I don't think the time it takes is necessarily the issue, it's that everything is so easy and automated... and then these people who've experienced the game this way are thrown into the environment of endgame with the rest of us and the disparity is just too great.

If there was a little danger and engaging combat for those 10~ hours I'd think those new players would be better off. Also, there needs to be a system deeper than the current Talents to teach players how their class is growing - let them choose which ability to unlock next, put points each level into unlocking their unique effects (kind like Artifact Trait points in Legion informed you how the class was growing that expansion, but at max level you just have them all), and give them some difficult encounters to necessitate that blind or frost nova on an add as you're getting overwhelmed.

I think Classic leveling is a little too obtuse for example, but around Wrath the Talents, Skills, and pacing of combat was in a place where it flowed but you were still encouraged to know your strengths and weaknesses, excited to spend Talent points in a place where you thought you'd be effective... gaining those things is what made you feel stronger and ready to take on more challenges, not the number next to your head. That's why I think the leveling time is irrelevant if it isn't accompanied by the kind of engagement that facilitates better gameplay. The veterans will still blow through levels with ease, but for new and casual players there's something lacking. I say this as someone who has a partner who finds Classic more interesting to play with me just because of how whack-a-mole Live is.

[McNeil]

Its better than what we used to have but it is still rather flawed. I think the leveling is way to fast and easy, and it kinda bothers me that they still haven't even updated the old zones as it is obviously needed by now. Maybe it will happen after Shadowlands due to how time works differently and the world has time to change, but I was hoping for this to happen with the level squish which would have drawn so much more people back to the game. It would be ideal for new players to experience the game properly, rather than the mess that the previous leveling was.

While I do like having choices to be able to level in an expansion of your choice, I also wanted to be able to pick a zone to start with aswell. Entering outland I would like to go straight to Nagrand or Netherstorm, in Northrend I'd like to quest in Sholazar Basin or Grizzly Hills.

[SirCowdog]

What I'm discovering is that the extreme downshift in exp/h and TTK past level 30 is unnecessarily frustrating. I would have been much happier with a smooth and consistent power increase and level gain. As it stands, you REALLY feel the drag around 35+ unless you're using pet battles or gathering to level.

While I appreciate this new system as being overall better than what we had before, it definitely needs the wrinkles smoothed out.

[arkanon]

What I'm discovering is that the extreme downshift in exp/h and TTK past level 30 is unnecessarily frustrating. I would have been much happier with a smooth and consistent power increase and level gain. As it stands, you REALLY feel the drag around 35+ unless you're using pet battles or gathering to level.

While I appreciate this new system as being overall better than what we had before, it definitely needs the wrinkles smoothed out.

I seem to remember there being a pretty bad hole previously as well, but for the life of me i cant remember what level range it was. It was after the last big range of changes where you had more than one option of which expansion to do next. Around the level 80 / 90 range, from memory. There was this noticeable drop off in xp/hour compared to previous level ranges, and yes, it feels HORRIBLE when it happens. Smooth, linear leveling from around lvl 15-current expansion is the way to go. I prefer the first 10/15 levels to move quite quickly though, as most classes play like absolute shit with like 1 attack and its just painful if its too slow.

For the record i think they have this initial part about right at the moment.

[SirCowdog]

I seem to remember there being a pretty bad hole previously as well, but for the life of me i cant remember what level range it was. It was after the last big range of changes where you had more than one option of which expansion to do next. Around the level 80 / 90 range, from memory. There was this noticeable drop off in xp/hour compared to previous level ranges, and yes, it feels HORRIBLE when it happens. Smooth, linear leveling from around lvl 15-current expansion is the way to go. I prefer the first 10/15 levels to move quite quickly though, as most classes play like absolute shit with like 1 attack and its just painful if its too slow.

For the record i think they have this initial part about right at the moment.

Its was the 60-80 range, because your onlt options were TBC or WotLK. And while WotLK was slightly more modern and reasonable in its quest flow, it was still taking the same amount of time for 20 levels as you'd just spent going from 1-60.

The second you hit level 80 you would immediately drop whatever you'd been doing, and go straight to Mt Hyjal or Jade Forest(which outside of WoD treasures were two of the best exp/h zones available).

The difference here is that in the old system, leveling actually sped up after 60-80, whereas in the new system is just progressively gets slower and slower. Even though it's faster in absolute terms, it still FEELS slower.

The trick now is putting in the time to rediscover what areas and zones and mechanics have the best experience to streamline levelling, so we can combat that feeling.

[arkanon]

The trick now is putting in the time to rediscover what areas and zones and mechanics have the best experience to streamline levelling.

And the shortest introduction! God I hate those story filled SLOW intro quests that i have done dozens of times.

[Rozz]

Now at about 20 alts, I have 3 left to finish. At this point, I bounce around the initial starting zones of the last 3 expansions just for extra hearthstones.

[shoc]

Gorgrond becoming the new Barrens is the best part of Chromie Time.

[blankfaced]

The only problem i'm having is how extremely untuned and unbalanced it all is for it only being 49 levels of content. Aimed shot, hybrid heals, healer damage it's all super out of wack. Like arcane explosion hitting for more than frostbolt or fireball? Where is the sense in all of this! If I were an actual new player to the game i'd be confused as hell right now.

[razorpax]

The only problem i'm having is how extremely untuned and unbalanced it all is for it only being 49 levels of content. Aimed shot, hybrid heals, healer damage it's all super out of wack. Like arcane explosion hitting for more than frostbolt or fireball? Where is the sense in all of this! If I were an actual new player to the game i'd be confused as hell right now.

Would you though???

I recently leveled a hunter and I know fuck all for how to play lol but it consists of reading stuff and nothing more

Big pull?? Misdirect then multishot into aimed shot into multishot into rapid fire into aimed shot

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Rofl, no, it is not. I am leveling an alt for the first time in years, I+m normally boosting them as leveling is not quite what it used to be anyway, so rather save my time.

Now I gave it a go. The system concept is GOOD, really, I love being able to pick an X pack and go though it.
However, there are 2 huge problems:

1_ We should be half as strong as we are. We are one shooting all mobs.
2_ It should take 2 or 3 times as long to level. It is currently way too fast, you cant even do one X pack content, maybe 2 areas at best then you are level 50 already.

That’s hyperbole to the maximum setting

[ymirsson]

Would you though???

I recently leveled a hunter and I know fuck all for how to play lol but it consists of reading stuff and nothing more

Big pull?? Misdirect then multishot into aimed shot into multishot into rapid fire into aimed shot

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That’s hyperbole to the maximum setting

[Eurhetemec]

That’s hyperbole to the maximum setting

It isn't though. Whereas when he said it, it was. Even if you think it's hyperbole, it's set to like 40% or less.

Whereas the other guy was claiming:

1) We 1-shot all mobs.

and

2) We clear all expansions in "two areas" (presumably zones).

Which is genuinely "crank it to 11"-type hyperbole. You don't even metaphorically "one-shot" shit after about level 20 on any class I've played (in Heirlooms), and even before that you don't actually one-shot stuff, just a couple of classes kill stuff very quickly (primarily Hunters).

You don't clear any expansions in "two areas", at all, unless you're doing tons of dungeons or extra content that's not in those areas and just making out that "doesn't count" for some reason.

[blankfaced]

Would you though???

I recently leveled a hunter and I know fuck all for how to play lol but it consists of reading stuff and nothing more

Big pull?? Misdirect then multishot into aimed shot into multishot into rapid fire into aimed shot

- - - Updated - - -



That’s hyperbole to the maximum setting

Yes. I'd be confused as hell why my main nuke hits for less than an aoe which has no cd or cast time or target limit.

How often would you be hitting aimed in an aoe situation if multi hit harder than aimed (by at least 10%) and had no target limit?

And yes Hunters can one shot mobs easily while leveling up. Master Marksman, Careful Aim and a +5dmg scope and you can easily one shot a mob on crit. I thought you recently leveled a hunter as MM? The average health i'm seeing at 35 is from 2-3k health. My aimed shot can crit for 2k+. Explain how one shotting is hyperbole.

And I agree with the person you quoted. Leveling is too fast now. I had to lock my hunters exp just to get enjoy anything. Between BGs quests and dungeons you level up way too quickly. 20 hours is way too quick (mostly bfa questing with a few dungeons), it wasn't even anywhere near that quick in vanilla which had 10 more levels.