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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    Blizzard is hemorrhaging staff even if they haven't joined Dreamhaven yet. Mike has been scalping people too. They don't have to post all their people in the site, if you think they will you are fooling yourself.
    Do you have any proof of what your are claiming here?

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    Blizzard is hemorrhaging staff even if they haven't joined Dreamhaven yet. Mike has been scalping people too. They don't have to post all their people in the site, if you think they will you are fooling yourself.
    You're being ridiculous.

    Anyone important that they get, they've posted on that site, because it means more people are likely to join them.

    But if you actually look, a lot of those people are fairly minor and many of them aren't devs (the latter does suggest Mike is at least serious about making games, oddly enough). They don't remotely have the staff to make an actual game.

    As for "Blizzard is hemorrhaging staff", you've offered no evidence at all of this, let alone proof, and don't seem to understand at a business with 2000 people in it, turnover is pretty high.

    For example, at the company I work, which has over 3000 people, the monthly turnover is over 100 people leaving and another 100 joining. That's not even particularly high. If Blizzard was the same, and no reason it shouldn't be, then we'd be looking at 60+ people leaving and joining each month. Even if it was half that, it's 30+.

    Which is more people than even joined Dreamhaven. So let's see some actual evidence of "hemorrhaging", or we can safely file this in the round bin marked "internet garbage".
    "A youtuber said so."

    "... some wow experts being interviewed..."

    "According to researchers from Wowhead..."

  3. #123
    How could they fuck up SL launch when it hasnt been yet.

  4. #124
    To be fair, Blizz is wayy over due to launch a new game, when was the last time they launched a new game?

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greengrim View Post
    I'm usually not the one to be negative about Blizzard, but I have to admit, they legitimely deserve everything bit of hate.

    First they fucked up the SL launch. Then they gave us a prepatch of the prepatch - there's litterally nothing else to do other than level alts. After that we couldn't play for a few days due to login issues and moronic ques of 1000 people which just disconnect you in the end and restart the queue process. And last night we couldn't even quest normally (apparently Draenor became too popular and servers can't keep up).
    How'd they fuck up the SL launch when they haven't launched SL yet? If you're referring to the delay, most people are saying "this is a good thing." I agree. Take the time to polish the expansion. Otherwise, SL isn't launched so what was the fuck up?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    You're being ridiculous.
    Is Dreamhaven this month's "thing that will kill wow"?

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    Is Dreamhaven this month's "thing that will kill wow"?
    Apparently. Mike Morhaime and like 20-ish (total) ex-Blizzard people and a couple of others (literally like 2), many of them business services, not developers, have two small studios making games and Blizzard is thus OVER and CANCELLED. Ahem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daevied View Post
    To be fair, Blizz is wayy over due to launch a new game, when was the last time they launched a new game?
    Counting remakes/updates or not?

    WC3 Reforged was January this year. I know that, this being 2020, that seems like several years ago, but it was January.

    If we're only talking new games, Overwatch was May 2016.

    If we're talking expansions, BfA was August 2018.

    They've had longer between games. World of Warcraft came out in November 2004, and Blizzard didn't release any new games at all until 2010 (Starcraft 2, yeah it was that long ago). It seems like they intended Diablo III to come out some time between 2004 and 2010, but it didn't actually make it until 2012. I suspect Diablo IV was intended to come out a year or three ago, because DIII feels pretty ancient and decrepit (to me) at this point, despite remaining a solid game. But more likely it'll be out late 2021 or sometime in 2022 (my bet would be on 2022). Which would be either a smaller or similar gap.
    "A youtuber said so."

    "... some wow experts being interviewed..."

    "According to researchers from Wowhead..."

  7. #127
    They actually postponed the expansion to polish it and fix balance errors. And that is the final straw that converted OP, who by his own admission was never the one to be negative, into someone whining about everything connected to the game at random, and his main gripes being...that there's not enough content in pre-patch?

    Okay

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Azerate View Post
    They actually postponed the expansion to polish it and fix balance errors. And that is the final straw that converted OP, who by his own admission was never the one to be negative, into someone whining about everything connected to the game at random, and his main gripes being...that there's not enough content in pre-patch?

    Okay
    I mean I feel that complaining that the shoved in grind systems they felt like they had to add to the game delaying it is fair.

    I don't hold out much hope for sl being better balanced then bfa myself. Most competent min maxing testers have abandoned the beta until things are close to being in a state ready for testing.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    For example, at the company I work, which has over 3000 people, the monthly turnover is over 100 people leaving and another 100 joining. That's not even particularly high. If Blizzard was the same, and no reason it shouldn't be, then we'd be looking at 60+ people leaving and joining each month. Even if it was half that, it's 30+.
    That is an extremely high turnover rate. A company losing 40% of their staff each year is awful. Companies don't have high turnover rates for no reason. It's because it is a shit company to work for.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Wuusah View Post
    The game is a mess because Shadowlands is a mess. And Shadowlands is a mess because they bit off more than they could chew.

    This is a pre-patch that they forced out when the expansion was a complete mess and needed to be delayed. Obviously that means the pre-patch is extra messy.

    It's not really surprising how it all went down.
    I really ask myself if they pushed the release date because the expansion is unfinished or because the number of preorders were too low for their liking. Frankly I could really imagine them releasing on time in the state it is in and patching later if there were millions of preorders. It does not look too good any way you look at it but I guess we will see what polish and content they can bring.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    Instead of calling him a troll why don't you try to defend your argument and refute his points? Do you think a reply like yours just now helps the conversation?
    I don't have to engage a discussion with someone openly aggressive, thankfully.


    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    WC3 Reforged was January this year. I know that, this being 2020, that seems like several years ago, but it was January.
    Do you know the state WC:R is in? (it's shameful to say the least)
    Last edited by Virtual Boy; 2020-10-19 at 06:29 PM.

  11. #131
    Their art and music never sucked imo, but their products definitely started declining at some point.
    Let me give you some of what I've witness in Korea, basically the former Blizzard nation when it came to gaming.


    The bads:

    - SC 2:
    Sold well, of course. SC 1 was an insane seller game. Got completely destroyed by LoL in Korea, THE Starcraft nation. This franchise was symbol of gaming in Korea, and now it became a meme. The younger gens don't even know about this game anymore, seriously.
    SC: Remaster seemed like a well-deserved remaster for old fans though.


    - Diablo 3:
    Again, sold really well initially due to what this franchise carried for years. Those who played all remember how crazy the hype was, and how terrible the experience was at the release, with terrible balancing issues, extremely stubborn developers, and it became literally unplayable for melee classes. I didn't even bother with the expansion, due to how terrible the experience was, it ruined all nostalgia from D1 and D2, and also became a meme.


    - HOTS:
    No one even doubted this game would flop in any way. A game filled with the most famous, anticipated characters from all the Blizzard games? This was supposed to basically remove, or at least threaten LoL. You have no idea how loyal Korean players were to the name Blizzard. Then the game released, and basically proved itself as a boring game, with a failed design that did NOT fit for the majority of MOBA players. meme game #3, probably the biggest game produced the most memes in Korea just to joke on how bad it was. And look at where it is now.


    - WoW:
    WoW in Korea is a very different story. The current player bases are pretty damn old, and is well-known for its closed-off, extremely cliquey community. Other servers like NA, EU are far, far better to play this game. WoW in Korea suffers from the small society syndrome, one can compare this to trying to fit into a tiny, country side community in the middle of nowhere. You will be judged non-stop until you become complacent and reshape yourself into it. Plus Alliance is just unplayable in Korean servers. You basically can't do any of the end-game contents unless you are Horde, solely because of its extreme population difference.





    The okays:

    - Overwatch:
    I believe OW is probably the second on the list of the positive products that Blizzard has created in the past decade. It actually overwhelmed LoL in Korea for awhile in literal player numbers, with approachable game plays, competitiveness, great up-to-date character designs and whatnot. OW created A LOT of positive memes, like, the Korean kids in the early 2000's used to use SC references for jokes, which are all gone and forgotten, but OW references sometimes even show up in mainstream medias.

    The game had a great release, but it came with a complete disaster of a maintenance with extremely slow content release that killed all hypes it built. At least a lot of people are looking forward to OW2 and its campaign mode to revitalize the game.


    - Hearthstone:
    Did fine, still doing fine. It isn't played as widely as its inception, but there are plenty of players who like the Warcraft franchise, or the game itself, and plays enough of Hearthstone. I think this is probably the most financially successful game Blizzard has created in the past decade.



    - WCIII: Reforged:
    Let's just not talk about this.
    This was just unacceptable.






    To me personally, if Blizzard wanted to show the audience that they're still a kick-ass game developers, they should've went all out with OW with full campaign, co-op mode and whatnot to just completely drop a gigantic bomb at the market on its release. That would've been very refreshing... It's not like it did bad, I know, but I really wanted Blizzard to show what they've got with this. But I guess they were supposed to meet the deadline

    Blizzard might be still a corporate that can milk a lot of cash with decent products, but I have to agree that they definitely did decline from their peak.

  12. #132
    Simple answer is you are not entitled to a product that satisfies you when you put money into it.

    You gotta go out and find what makes you happy, what is worth your entertainment.

    If you subscribe to Netflix and you think there is nothing on there that is good this month to watch and Netflix should be better then yeah, thats fine. But the point when you start going into detail how Netflix disappoints you on this movie you watched and that other series was incomplete then this other show offends you for even existing etc then at some point its more of a you problem than it is Netflix. Just move on, stop subbing and let it be. Blizzard won't change just because you want it to.

    Believe me, this is coming from a Warcraft RTS fan who has been ignored for years and got a remake that was worse than the original product.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2020-10-19 at 06:46 PM.

  13. #133
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    Can they even pull themselves out at this point? Or is Activision holding their head underwater by siphoning off profit and imposing strict austerity measures to force devs to quit so Shadowlands and Diablo 4 fail and they can swoop in, close the company, and turn Battle Net into Activision Game Store and Overwatch 2 into the next Anthem/Avengers/Destiny?
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  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Greengrim View Post
    I'm usually not the one to be negative about Blizzard, but I have to admit, they legitimely deserve everything bit of hate.

    First they fucked up the SL launch. Then they gave us a prepatch of the prepatch - there's litterally nothing else to do other than level alts. After that we couldn't play for a few days due to login issues and moronic ques of 1000 people which just disconnect you in the end and restart the queue process. And last night we couldn't even quest normally (apparently Draenor became too popular and servers can't keep up).
    Many things are designed for a certain capacity. Exceed those capacity and queues will form. Given that it is a pre-launch patch and many people were expecting the pre-launch event, it is not surprising that would be a surge in people attempting to login. Anyone with any sense of reality will understand that. Look at traffic, look at shops during Black Friday. Mass queues at certain times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greengrim View Post
    WTF are you doing Blizz? What do you lack? Experience? Money? Why can't you do 1 thing right? Why can't you just hire some extra staff and servers temporarily and stop that fuck-fest for once?!
    Spoken like someone with experience in sorting these issues?

    Quote Originally Posted by Greengrim View Post
    And should I even mention classes? Shoving them from the sky into the deep undergrounds. Ruining brilliant abilities and their mechanics. Giving classes downtime instead of making their gameplay fluid. What kind of people do they have on the designer team really? A bunch of 12yo?
    Maybe some examples? I have noticed some classes feels a bit more clunky and not as responsive as I was used to, such as Disc Priest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greengrim View Post
    Shall we go further back? How about Diablo for mobile huh? Or OW2 which is literally a DLC to the first game? Or the completely pointless remasters which almost nobody bothers with?
    What has those got to do with WoW? And I recall some people were quite excited at a remastered WC3.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Daevied View Post
    To be fair, Blizz is wayy over due to launch a new game, when was the last time they launched a new game?
    Diablo 4 is someday within the next few years, Diablo Immortal will come out soon™, Overwatch 2 will come out spring of next year, Shadowlands fall/winter of this year. The dearth of Blizzard games is coming to an abrupt end.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greengrim View Post
    I'm usually not the one to be negative about Blizzard, but I have to admit, they legitimely deserve everything bit of hate.

    First they fucked up the SL launch. Then they gave us a prepatch of the prepatch - there's litterally nothing else to do other than level alts. After that we couldn't play for a few days due to login issues and moronic ques of 1000 people which just disconnect you in the end and restart the queue process. And last night we couldn't even quest normally (apparently Draenor became too popular and servers can't keep up).

    WTF are you doing Blizz? What do you lack? Experience? Money? Why can't you do 1 thing right? Why can't you just hire some extra staff and servers temporarily and stop that fuck-fest for once?!

    And should I even mention classes? Shoving them from the sky into the deep undergrounds. Ruining brilliant abilities and their mechanics. Giving classes downtime instead of making their gameplay fluid. What kind of people do they have on the designer team really? A bunch of 12yo?

    Wait, maybe the story? Ummmm...not! Nothing new ladies and gentlemen! That's right, still the same'ol'Sylvie. Still a bunch of stuff happen that only start to make sense 6 years later.

    Shall we go further back? How about Diablo for mobile huh? Or OW2 which is literally a DLC to the first game? Or the completely pointless remasters which almost nobody bothers with?

    I was thinking to only throw a few words into my post, but look at the size of these few words. Jesus Blizzard just stop fucking up already. We waited you to milk enough money already, is it not about time to sit down on your behinds and give us something meaningful in return now ?!
    Welcome to Patch day - it is always a poop show (for better or worse).

    Also we have queues because thousands of people are returning to the game after being on hiatus. I myself have 5 IRL friends who have re-subbed since pre-patch started. If you are experiencing long queues, might I suggest rolling a new character up on a lower population server? Never an easier time to level an alt

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Greengrim View Post
    I'm usually not the one to be negative about Blizzard, but I have to admit, they legitimely deserve everything bit of hate.

    First they fucked up the SL launch. Then they gave us a prepatch of the prepatch - there's litterally nothing else to do other than level alts. After that we couldn't play for a few days due to login issues and moronic ques of 1000 people which just disconnect you in the end and restart the queue process. And last night we couldn't even quest normally (apparently Draenor became too popular and servers can't keep up).

    WTF are you doing Blizz? What do you lack? Experience? Money? Why can't you do 1 thing right? Why can't you just hire some extra staff and servers temporarily and stop that fuck-fest for once?!

    And should I even mention classes? Shoving them from the sky into the deep undergrounds. Ruining brilliant abilities and their mechanics. Giving classes downtime instead of making their gameplay fluid. What kind of people do they have on the designer team really? A bunch of 12yo?

    Wait, maybe the story? Ummmm...not! Nothing new ladies and gentlemen! That's right, still the same'ol'Sylvie. Still a bunch of stuff happen that only start to make sense 6 years later.

    Shall we go further back? How about Diablo for mobile huh? Or OW2 which is literally a DLC to the first game? Or the completely pointless remasters which almost nobody bothers with?

    I was thinking to only throw a few words into my post, but look at the size of these few words. Jesus Blizzard just stop fucking up already. We waited you to milk enough money already, is it not about time to sit down on your behinds and give us something meaningful in return now ?!
    All I see is a baby with a full diaper crying about it. You know what the solution to your problem is. Do it or shut up. Because all you are doing is supporting something you disagree with.

    But let's go over these points. SL development has been hampered by COVID more than they anticipated. So, as a bone to players, they pushed 9.0 so players can check out the new squish, abilities, talents, and leveling systems. The email we all got gave us a link, and the front page of this site and Wowhead clearly told us that the content wouldn't come until the following week. This is in no way a failing.

    Login in queues, happens everytime there is huge demand for the game when something new is dropped. Funny how you bitch about this but you knew it had no content, know people flock back in droves for pre-patches, yet still choose to log on. BTW, I play on two different full servers and had no issues logging in. And this was right at 7pm EDT when the servers went back up.

    Class changes are subjective. I don't have an issue with any of my normal classes or the few I've been leveling on Allied races since the prepatch.

    So you just hate Sylvanas and hate long term character progression. And also hate not knowing the whilenstory before it happens. I take it you don't read or watch movies unless you find out all the twists and conclusions first right? This is a non issue.

    Nothing wrong about a mobile Diablo game reveal. As a long time Day one Diablo 1 player, I have no issues with DI. Sure I was disappointed there was no D4 reveal, but to have vitriol because a game wasn't ready to be announced is highly immature.

    All in all you seem entitled and petulant. You should take a step back and enjoy life and relax man.

  17. #137
    "I LOVE wow and im horribly addicted to it, however it is not perfectly tailored to my personal and specific wants and needs, so its a BAD product. However, i will continue to buy it and play it and pay for my sub" Episode 427.

    Tune in next episode for "Why covenants are bad and how i would have designed them". Followed right after by "The spec i play is bad and every other spec is good - they should revert my spec to when it was clearly the best"

    The horse is dead, its time to let it be.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post

    Believe me, this is coming from a Warcraft RTS fan who has been ignored for years and got a remake that was worse than the original product.
    I was a fan of war3, and was initially looking forward to the remaster/remake/cashgrab, however i realised i just wasnt that into what they were doing. You know how i dealt with that situation?

    This is some next level shit, but hear me out; I didnt buy it.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    I was a fan of war3, and was initially looking forward to the remaster/remake/cashgrab, however i realised i just wasnt that into what they were doing. You know how i dealt with that situation?

    This is some next level shit, but hear me out; I didnt buy it.
    Well thats great if Reforged is all that we're talking about, but the amount of screwups with this release has completely affected someone who bought Warcraft 3 circa 2002 and just wants to play that.

    First off, even if you don't own reforged, you still have to download all of its files. So that 2-3 gb install has now become 30gb, with the majority of those files locked to Reforged. Then you wanna play classic War3 online? Well you have to use new battle.net, and the ladder is not implemented. Want to play Reign of Chaos? Sorry but thats completely gone and removed; it doesn't even exist to the point where the campaign uses TFT stats and systems and breaks some of the campaign mechanics. Do you like custom campaigns? Well you can't play your old maps together because they screwed that up too.

    Thats how bad Reforged was. It not only made itself not worth buying, but it screwed up the game you already owned.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Well thats great if Reforged is all that we're talking about, but the amount of screwups with this release has completely affected someone who bought Warcraft 3 circa 2002 and just wants to play that.

    First off, even if you don't own reforged, you still have to download all of its files. So that 2-3 gb install has now become 30gb, with the majority of those files locked to Reforged. Then you wanna play classic War3 online? Well you have to use new battle.net, and the ladder is not implemented. Want to play Reign of Chaos? Sorry but thats completely gone and removed; it doesn't even exist to the point where the campaign uses TFT stats and systems and breaks some of the campaign mechanics. Do you like custom campaigns? Well you can't play your old maps together because they screwed that up too.

    Thats how bad Reforged was. It not only made itself not worth buying, but it screwed up the game you already owned.
    Oh for sure, im well aware of the monumental screwjob that was reforged. I do feel for those who still played vanilla war3, it was a total shambles.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Greengrim View Post
    Literally the dumbest of all generic answers...

    How about no huh? How about Blizzard stop fucking up instead?



    You know I was refering to size of the post, literally.
    What incentive do they have to stop fucking up if everyone buys their shit anyway?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greengrim View Post
    Damn bro, you so wise and clever! Look at you, figuring stuff out!

    Sorry to break your little Sherlock moment though, but nothing changes. I pay for WoW because I like it - I never said I didn't. But that doesn't change the fact that it's LITERALLY NEVER launched smoothly. Or not balanced well.

    The fact I pay doesn't mean I'm fully ok with anything. World isn't as black and white. But I guess you already had that figured out too.



    Please excuse me if I disappoint, but I don't pay for trash such as OW2, or any of the remasters. Just WoW (not collector edition tho) and Diablo.
    "blizzard keeps fucking up!! but I still like it..."

    So what's the problem?

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