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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by CreatureLives View Post
    Why is everyone acting like there hasn't been a pandemic going on for most of the year?

    Or course it was going to affect development.
    My thoughts exactly. People are too stuck up their own asses to realize the very real situation that the entire world has been in since the beginning of the year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post

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    They are, and they are hemorrhaging staff left and right as Mike is basically snagging as many Blizzard people as he can now.
    Yes, I'm sure SL will be the last expansion and literally nobody will be left working on the game before too long.








    /fucking S, obviously.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by MatthiasLehner View Post
    Literally their co-founder and CEO left and built a new company, and their statement said:

    “We’re almost trying to create a haven for creators who want an environment that is development friendly, values product, and player experience over short-term financial pressures,”

    Acti-Blizzard is not a development/player-oriented studio anymore, it's a mega corporate that exists solely for money. And this is without pointing at them as some evil manufacturer. They are doing what they're doing as a corporate. Cut corners as much as possible, make products for profit and profit only, and try to give us, the players, candies that give us a dose to subscribe again because "see? they didn't change, they listen to us."

    Most of the founding members literally couldn't stand how their company has changed and left, this is already nuffsaid, sadly.
    This is such a silly and fake point.

    Which really major dev studios/publishers that have been around for 15+ years are still run by "most of" the founding members? Go on, name them, I'll wait. It's going to be a long wait because it's basically none of them except fucking Bethesda, who are exactly the kind of money-grubbers you're complaining about!

    It doesn't have anything to do with studios/publishers changing. It has to do with devs making fucking giant stacks of cash, and deciding to leave to pursue passion-projects instead of mainstream ones. Many of them don't even go into games when they left. For example, the Bioware founders left, and neither of them had actually been involved with the games for years, one of them had been spending 90% of his time running his brewery, and I forget what the other one was doing, but people like you threw a giant tantrum when they did. I guess because they thought in the 10% of his time the dude wasn't running his brewery, he was ensuring Bioware games were great?! Some ridiculous shit.

    CDPR isn't even that old really, and one of the main founders has already stopped being involved with games and is running his restaurant full-time (even though I believe he is still credited and paid by CDPR).

    And look at the studios various ex-Blizzard people have set up, have any of them produced any games? No. Have any of them got to the point where it seems likely they might actually release a game? No. (Unless you count the Blizzard North people who left Diablo 2, and before WoW.)

    Hell, if they do, how long, exactly do you think it will be until we hear about crunch at Dreamhaven? I'm sure Mike will be like "It's not my fault, it's the dev studios (Moonshot and Secret Door). How long until we see MTX or other dubious marketing approaches from them?

    Also I love how people like you think this is some computer game industry thing where these super-creative "artistes" become horrified by the corporate-ness, and that leaving a big company to go set up your own isn't something that happens in virtually every industry, from law to manufacturing.
    Last edited by Eurhetemec; 2020-10-19 at 04:02 PM.
    "A youtuber said so."

    "... some wow experts being interviewed..."

    "According to researchers from Wowhead..."

  3. #103
    Yeah it would probably help if everyone that complains about wow didnt pay for the game, subs, mounts, boosts, pets and whatnot.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    They are, and they are hemorrhaging staff left and right as Mike is basically snagging as many Blizzard people as he can now.
    Maybe you should read Dreamhaven's actual staff list, instead of making up weird fantasies?

    https://www.dreamhaven.com/about

    They don't even have 20 actual devs (even by the most generous definition) from Blizzard. I'm not sure they even have 15. And this is with Mike Morhaime and Shane Dabiri being there.

    But it's more fun to make stuff up and panic about it I guess.
    "A youtuber said so."

    "... some wow experts being interviewed..."

    "According to researchers from Wowhead..."

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Greengrim View Post
    They confirmed the launch after/during the pandemic. This means they must have taken into consideration the fact that most people work from home, and ONLY THEN give out the date.

    Also programmers and designers are the least affected by the pandemic honestly to say. The whole gaming insdustry is generally thriving ever since the pandemic.
    Gaming industry is thriving because people are at home buying/playing games, not because its easier for developers to work.

    I know there are many people saying what you just did, but where i work we certainly didnt have an easy time dealing with corona. There is a lot more going into these things then just sitting at your pc and programming all day long

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    Has nothing to do with Blizzard and 100% to do with Activision and the pressure they are constantly putting on the Blizzard teams to perform.

    Doesn't matter anyways this could be the final wow expansion if enough of the team move over to Dreamhaven (people have been leaving in droves fyi) I think it is just a matter of time before WoW begins to underperform and Activision decides to sell the IP and hopefully Mike wants it back.

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    They are, and they are hemorrhaging staff left and right as Mike is basically snagging as many Blizzard people as he can now.
    There is a grand total of 2 developers from blizzard. One of them only worked on HotS. The rest are ui , hr, and operations people.

    Mike made the ultimate coward move and ran away while blaming everything on everyone else. I only see a gain from Blizzard in this.

    :/

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    Maybe you should read Dreamhaven's actual staff list, instead of making up weird fantasies?

    https://www.dreamhaven.com/about

    They don't even have 20 actual devs (even by the most generous definition) from Blizzard. I'm not sure they even have 15. And this is with Mike Morhaime and Shane Dabiri being there.

    But it's more fun to make stuff up and panic about it I guess.
    Blizzard is hemorrhaging staff even if they haven't joined Dreamhaven yet. Mike has been scalping people too. They don't have to post all their people in the site, if you think they will you are fooling yourself.
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  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    Blizzard is hemorrhaging staff even if they haven't joined Dreamhaven yet. Mike has been scalping people too. They don't have to post all their people in the site, if you think they will you are fooling yourself.
    Do you have any proof of what your are claiming here?

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    Blizzard is hemorrhaging staff even if they haven't joined Dreamhaven yet. Mike has been scalping people too. They don't have to post all their people in the site, if you think they will you are fooling yourself.
    You're being ridiculous.

    Anyone important that they get, they've posted on that site, because it means more people are likely to join them.

    But if you actually look, a lot of those people are fairly minor and many of them aren't devs (the latter does suggest Mike is at least serious about making games, oddly enough). They don't remotely have the staff to make an actual game.

    As for "Blizzard is hemorrhaging staff", you've offered no evidence at all of this, let alone proof, and don't seem to understand at a business with 2000 people in it, turnover is pretty high.

    For example, at the company I work, which has over 3000 people, the monthly turnover is over 100 people leaving and another 100 joining. That's not even particularly high. If Blizzard was the same, and no reason it shouldn't be, then we'd be looking at 60+ people leaving and joining each month. Even if it was half that, it's 30+.

    Which is more people than even joined Dreamhaven. So let's see some actual evidence of "hemorrhaging", or we can safely file this in the round bin marked "internet garbage".
    "A youtuber said so."

    "... some wow experts being interviewed..."

    "According to researchers from Wowhead..."

  9. #109
    How could they fuck up SL launch when it hasnt been yet.

  10. #110
    To be fair, Blizz is wayy over due to launch a new game, when was the last time they launched a new game?

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greengrim View Post
    I'm usually not the one to be negative about Blizzard, but I have to admit, they legitimely deserve everything bit of hate.

    First they fucked up the SL launch. Then they gave us a prepatch of the prepatch - there's litterally nothing else to do other than level alts. After that we couldn't play for a few days due to login issues and moronic ques of 1000 people which just disconnect you in the end and restart the queue process. And last night we couldn't even quest normally (apparently Draenor became too popular and servers can't keep up).
    How'd they fuck up the SL launch when they haven't launched SL yet? If you're referring to the delay, most people are saying "this is a good thing." I agree. Take the time to polish the expansion. Otherwise, SL isn't launched so what was the fuck up?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    You're being ridiculous.
    Is Dreamhaven this month's "thing that will kill wow"?
    Putin khuliyo

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    Is Dreamhaven this month's "thing that will kill wow"?
    Apparently. Mike Morhaime and like 20-ish (total) ex-Blizzard people and a couple of others (literally like 2), many of them business services, not developers, have two small studios making games and Blizzard is thus OVER and CANCELLED. Ahem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daevied View Post
    To be fair, Blizz is wayy over due to launch a new game, when was the last time they launched a new game?
    Counting remakes/updates or not?

    WC3 Reforged was January this year. I know that, this being 2020, that seems like several years ago, but it was January.

    If we're only talking new games, Overwatch was May 2016.

    If we're talking expansions, BfA was August 2018.

    They've had longer between games. World of Warcraft came out in November 2004, and Blizzard didn't release any new games at all until 2010 (Starcraft 2, yeah it was that long ago). It seems like they intended Diablo III to come out some time between 2004 and 2010, but it didn't actually make it until 2012. I suspect Diablo IV was intended to come out a year or three ago, because DIII feels pretty ancient and decrepit (to me) at this point, despite remaining a solid game. But more likely it'll be out late 2021 or sometime in 2022 (my bet would be on 2022). Which would be either a smaller or similar gap.
    "A youtuber said so."

    "... some wow experts being interviewed..."

    "According to researchers from Wowhead..."

  13. #113
    They actually postponed the expansion to polish it and fix balance errors. And that is the final straw that converted OP, who by his own admission was never the one to be negative, into someone whining about everything connected to the game at random, and his main gripes being...that there's not enough content in pre-patch?

    Okay
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cavox View Post
    I want Activision-Blizzard to burn, but for crimes against gaming, not because they got me too'd.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Azerate View Post
    They actually postponed the expansion to polish it and fix balance errors. And that is the final straw that converted OP, who by his own admission was never the one to be negative, into someone whining about everything connected to the game at random, and his main gripes being...that there's not enough content in pre-patch?

    Okay
    I mean I feel that complaining that the shoved in grind systems they felt like they had to add to the game delaying it is fair.

    I don't hold out much hope for sl being better balanced then bfa myself. Most competent min maxing testers have abandoned the beta until things are close to being in a state ready for testing.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    For example, at the company I work, which has over 3000 people, the monthly turnover is over 100 people leaving and another 100 joining. That's not even particularly high. If Blizzard was the same, and no reason it shouldn't be, then we'd be looking at 60+ people leaving and joining each month. Even if it was half that, it's 30+.
    That is an extremely high turnover rate. A company losing 40% of their staff each year is awful. Companies don't have high turnover rates for no reason. It's because it is a shit company to work for.

  16. #116
    Their art and music never sucked imo, but their products definitely started declining at some point.
    Let me give you some of what I've witness in Korea, basically the former Blizzard nation when it came to gaming.


    The bads:

    - SC 2:
    Sold well, of course. SC 1 was an insane seller game. Got completely destroyed by LoL in Korea, THE Starcraft nation. This franchise was symbol of gaming in Korea, and now it became a meme. The younger gens don't even know about this game anymore, seriously.
    SC: Remaster seemed like a well-deserved remaster for old fans though.


    - Diablo 3:
    Again, sold really well initially due to what this franchise carried for years. Those who played all remember how crazy the hype was, and how terrible the experience was at the release, with terrible balancing issues, extremely stubborn developers, and it became literally unplayable for melee classes. I didn't even bother with the expansion, due to how terrible the experience was, it ruined all nostalgia from D1 and D2, and also became a meme.


    - HOTS:
    No one even doubted this game would flop in any way. A game filled with the most famous, anticipated characters from all the Blizzard games? This was supposed to basically remove, or at least threaten LoL. You have no idea how loyal Korean players were to the name Blizzard. Then the game released, and basically proved itself as a boring game, with a failed design that did NOT fit for the majority of MOBA players. meme game #3, probably the biggest game produced the most memes in Korea just to joke on how bad it was. And look at where it is now.


    - WoW:
    WoW in Korea is a very different story. The current player bases are pretty damn old, and is well-known for its closed-off, extremely cliquey community. Other servers like NA, EU are far, far better to play this game. WoW in Korea suffers from the small society syndrome, one can compare this to trying to fit into a tiny, country side community in the middle of nowhere. You will be judged non-stop until you become complacent and reshape yourself into it. Plus Alliance is just unplayable in Korean servers. You basically can't do any of the end-game contents unless you are Horde, solely because of its extreme population difference.





    The okays:

    - Overwatch:
    I believe OW is probably the second on the list of the positive products that Blizzard has created in the past decade. It actually overwhelmed LoL in Korea for awhile in literal player numbers, with approachable game plays, competitiveness, great up-to-date character designs and whatnot. OW created A LOT of positive memes, like, the Korean kids in the early 2000's used to use SC references for jokes, which are all gone and forgotten, but OW references sometimes even show up in mainstream medias.

    The game had a great release, but it came with a complete disaster of a maintenance with extremely slow content release that killed all hypes it built. At least a lot of people are looking forward to OW2 and its campaign mode to revitalize the game.


    - Hearthstone:
    Did fine, still doing fine. It isn't played as widely as its inception, but there are plenty of players who like the Warcraft franchise, or the game itself, and plays enough of Hearthstone. I think this is probably the most financially successful game Blizzard has created in the past decade.



    - WCIII: Reforged:
    Let's just not talk about this.
    This was just unacceptable.






    To me personally, if Blizzard wanted to show the audience that they're still a kick-ass game developers, they should've went all out with OW with full campaign, co-op mode and whatnot to just completely drop a gigantic bomb at the market on its release. That would've been very refreshing... It's not like it did bad, I know, but I really wanted Blizzard to show what they've got with this. But I guess they were supposed to meet the deadline

    Blizzard might be still a corporate that can milk a lot of cash with decent products, but I have to agree that they definitely did decline from their peak.

  17. #117
    Simple answer is you are not entitled to a product that satisfies you when you put money into it.

    You gotta go out and find what makes you happy, what is worth your entertainment.

    If you subscribe to Netflix and you think there is nothing on there that is good this month to watch and Netflix should be better then yeah, thats fine. But the point when you start going into detail how Netflix disappoints you on this movie you watched and that other series was incomplete then this other show offends you for even existing etc then at some point its more of a you problem than it is Netflix. Just move on, stop subbing and let it be. Blizzard won't change just because you want it to.

    Believe me, this is coming from a Warcraft RTS fan who has been ignored for years and got a remake that was worse than the original product.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2020-10-19 at 06:46 PM.

  18. #118
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    Can they even pull themselves out at this point? Or is Activision holding their head underwater by siphoning off profit and imposing strict austerity measures to force devs to quit so Shadowlands and Diablo 4 fail and they can swoop in, close the company, and turn Battle Net into Activision Game Store and Overwatch 2 into the next Anthem/Avengers/Destiny?
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  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Greengrim View Post
    I'm usually not the one to be negative about Blizzard, but I have to admit, they legitimely deserve everything bit of hate.

    First they fucked up the SL launch. Then they gave us a prepatch of the prepatch - there's litterally nothing else to do other than level alts. After that we couldn't play for a few days due to login issues and moronic ques of 1000 people which just disconnect you in the end and restart the queue process. And last night we couldn't even quest normally (apparently Draenor became too popular and servers can't keep up).
    Many things are designed for a certain capacity. Exceed those capacity and queues will form. Given that it is a pre-launch patch and many people were expecting the pre-launch event, it is not surprising that would be a surge in people attempting to login. Anyone with any sense of reality will understand that. Look at traffic, look at shops during Black Friday. Mass queues at certain times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greengrim View Post
    WTF are you doing Blizz? What do you lack? Experience? Money? Why can't you do 1 thing right? Why can't you just hire some extra staff and servers temporarily and stop that fuck-fest for once?!
    Spoken like someone with experience in sorting these issues?

    Quote Originally Posted by Greengrim View Post
    And should I even mention classes? Shoving them from the sky into the deep undergrounds. Ruining brilliant abilities and their mechanics. Giving classes downtime instead of making their gameplay fluid. What kind of people do they have on the designer team really? A bunch of 12yo?
    Maybe some examples? I have noticed some classes feels a bit more clunky and not as responsive as I was used to, such as Disc Priest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greengrim View Post
    Shall we go further back? How about Diablo for mobile huh? Or OW2 which is literally a DLC to the first game? Or the completely pointless remasters which almost nobody bothers with?
    What has those got to do with WoW? And I recall some people were quite excited at a remastered WC3.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Daevied View Post
    To be fair, Blizz is wayy over due to launch a new game, when was the last time they launched a new game?
    Diablo 4 is someday within the next few years, Diablo Immortal will come out soon™, Overwatch 2 will come out spring of next year, Shadowlands fall/winter of this year. The dearth of Blizzard games is coming to an abrupt end.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greengrim View Post
    I'm usually not the one to be negative about Blizzard, but I have to admit, they legitimely deserve everything bit of hate.

    First they fucked up the SL launch. Then they gave us a prepatch of the prepatch - there's litterally nothing else to do other than level alts. After that we couldn't play for a few days due to login issues and moronic ques of 1000 people which just disconnect you in the end and restart the queue process. And last night we couldn't even quest normally (apparently Draenor became too popular and servers can't keep up).

    WTF are you doing Blizz? What do you lack? Experience? Money? Why can't you do 1 thing right? Why can't you just hire some extra staff and servers temporarily and stop that fuck-fest for once?!

    And should I even mention classes? Shoving them from the sky into the deep undergrounds. Ruining brilliant abilities and their mechanics. Giving classes downtime instead of making their gameplay fluid. What kind of people do they have on the designer team really? A bunch of 12yo?

    Wait, maybe the story? Ummmm...not! Nothing new ladies and gentlemen! That's right, still the same'ol'Sylvie. Still a bunch of stuff happen that only start to make sense 6 years later.

    Shall we go further back? How about Diablo for mobile huh? Or OW2 which is literally a DLC to the first game? Or the completely pointless remasters which almost nobody bothers with?

    I was thinking to only throw a few words into my post, but look at the size of these few words. Jesus Blizzard just stop fucking up already. We waited you to milk enough money already, is it not about time to sit down on your behinds and give us something meaningful in return now ?!
    Welcome to Patch day - it is always a poop show (for better or worse).

    Also we have queues because thousands of people are returning to the game after being on hiatus. I myself have 5 IRL friends who have re-subbed since pre-patch started. If you are experiencing long queues, might I suggest rolling a new character up on a lower population server? Never an easier time to level an alt

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