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  1. #341
    The Insane Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaqthefat View Post
    It has quite frankly lost its weight as a slur to the majority of people who use it. The time of slavery and racial segregation is over, the word losing its weight as a slur for everyone would be a very good thing. Removing its power would remove the word from actual racists who use it has a slur to devalue black people, and remove the power internet trolls have to use the word as a shock factor for upsetting people.
    So you sit in the ignorance camp then? One of those people who think racism is over because segregation ended?

  2. #342
    Quote Originally Posted by Neuroticaine View Post
    A slap on the ass is not as severe as rape, but they are both sexual assault. Likewise, there is a spectrum of severity in racist actions. Using the n-word is not as severe of an action as lynching a black person in your front yard, but they're both racist acts.

    Being "only a little racist" does not make you "not a racist."
    Indeed, they are both sex offenders, yet you would not call the ass-slapper a rapist, wouldn't you? So why do you call someone who slips up and uses the N-word the same thing you would call a racially motivated murderer?

    Vulgarly catcalling someone on the streets can be seen as an unconsensual sexual act, so is rape. Would you throw people guilty of the former in one bucket with the latter? Because if you do you have some serious issues.

    These binary lables devoid of nuance make zero sense and are highly damaging to the people affected by it.

  3. #343
    Quote Originally Posted by Magical Mudcrab View Post
    So the problem is that changing a symbol from being one of vitriolic hate to one which isn't is a lot more difficult than the reverse. There's essentially nothing contentious with adopting benevolent or otherwise non-objectionable symbols, as the symbols are at worst going to be met with indifference. It's only when adopting symbols which have taken on negative meanings when the situation becomes a lot more contentious.

    Take, for example, the Confederate Flag. Regardless of what people want to argue, the fact is that the flag is a symbol of a separatist movement which fought for their economic right to own and use slaves. Recently people have wanted to start "taking back" the flag, essentially tying it back to their history and saying it is representative of a shared, southern subculture in the United States; however, problems arise when you try and contextualize this. In-context, the history that it represents is contemptable and is not worth celebrating, and there is not really an apparent reason for this flag to ever be used other than people want to use this flag.

    Comparing this to something like the Swastika, this is a bit of a different situation. The meaning of the symbol hasn't actually changed and is still used widely; however, in Western cultures, because of our rather ethno-centric view of the world, we can't readily identify that people who use this symbol for religious reasons as not being Nazis. It's simply not something we've been socialized to expect. There is a case in which people from the various religions who use the symbol could try and "reclaim" it within Western cultures, though this would be met with skepticism, as it probably should be, and would take a long time to adopt.

    Moving back to the N-word, and really any racially charged language, this sort-of falls closer into the category of the Confederate Flag. There's not actually a positive or benevolent meaning to the bastardization of the Spanish word negro, as it was adapted with the sole purpose of being a method of persecute black people. The question sort-of becomes a situation in which it seems like life is being breathed into something which should instead be left to rot. That said, the word has partially been reclaimed by some parts of the global community, such as those who use the soft 'a', though this is sort of a different because typically the people reclaiming the symbol are black people - the people who it was targeted against - though it's no less contentious due to the history of the word.

    The Confederate flag is definitely a more apt comparison than the swastika, thank you for bringing that up. I don't believe the modern use of the Confederate Flag is racist, but it's been very established that the last time this flag was heavily used is tied to slavery. However, racists aren't this bold to just start openly using the Confederate Flag as a way to be racist. Being racist in todays time is similar being a communist during the cold war, if you are/were any of one of those things you were seen as an enemy and you would have your lively hood destroyed. While being racist is not as much of a witch hunt as being communist was, it still does retain some of that witch hunting aspect.

    The N-word should be forgotten by the people who are so fervently against it, trying to constantly fight this is keeping it alive for both racists and trolls. If this word was suddenly no longer seen as this horrible, evil thing to people racists would no longer have is historic power to demonize black people and trolls would no longer have its shock factor to upset people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    So you sit in the ignorance camp then? One of those people who think racism is over because segregation ended?

    Racism will never end, it's part of human nature. There will always be racists against Blacks, White, Asians, Hispanics and so forth. The problem is when racism is part of the institutions of the government.

    Racism should always be shunned away from society and shown that it is not acceptable, but it shouldn't be given this mythical status of one of the worst evil known to man. That gives racism and racists way too much power.
    Last edited by Shaqthefat; 2020-10-20 at 07:01 PM.

  4. #344
    Quote Originally Posted by LazuOG View Post
    Indeed, they are both sex offenders, yet you would not call the ass-slapper a rapist, wouldn't you? So why do you call someone who slips up and uses the N-word the same thing you would call a racially motivated murderer?

    Vulgarly catcalling someone on the streets can be seen as an unconsensual sexual act, so is rape. Would you throw people guilty of the former in one bucket with the latter? Because if you do you have some serious issues.

    These binary lables devoid of nuance make zero sense and are highly damaging to the people affected by it.
    "Indeed, they are both sex offenders" - LazuOG

    It seems like your argument is based on lack of knowledge.

    "Guys.. A Volvo and a Ferrari can't both be cars.."

  5. #345
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    You have never seen anyone on youtube in a fight or just out in public in a fight? I went to public schools and even for the 2 years I was in a small high school with only 2 black kids(in the high school part) I heard one call the other the N-word in a fight and the guy saying it was a good kid, the one he called it was an annoying jackass he just got fed up with.
    Wasn't really the sort of school where people fought. It was a grammar school where the nerds who thought they were hard would talk about fighting in the park after school, circle each other for 5 minutes, then it would get broken up. I don't go out to places where people fight.
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  6. #346
    Quote Originally Posted by Denso View Post
    Your second line of thought is a bit contradictory. It technically by itself puts you firmly in the SJW category unless I'm misunderstanding you.
    Probably. I think there is a big difference between being simply someone who simply don't want to use slurs and don't like racial and someone who get's triggered about... absolutely everything.

    Look at disney: getting outraged because of an old movie that was made in a total different time where this was widely accepted is stupid (dumbo for example). But would i watch a movie that would do such a thing nowadays? Probably not.

    Another thing is: I see that many are idiotically outraged because there is now customizations for black humans in the game. I personally love it and i don't think that anything is wrong with it. As i can't understand that it's such a big deal that the human alliance commander and her son is black too. But am i then a racist because some npcs that i saw for years in stormwind are now changed to be black and find it awkward? (especially since they might simply add new npcs or maybe even add a day and night cycle for npcs so that you can see different npcs on different times of the day and night) Hopefully not, but that's not something i can judge.


    Quote Originally Posted by Denso View Post
    Oh, and sidenote (plus a rare compliment); the fact you say "swearing... nah, i would not do it" definitely puts you in an exclusive club, I've been playing this game since launch and there's not many people that are like you. Bless.
    Because it's totally useless. Sometimes someone does idiotic things, then i say that he does idiotic things. But why should you swear ingame. And to be honest: it's not that i never sweared at all; sometimes even i am quite outraged too, but then using racial slurs is cheap and idiotic; and i can't say that something like that absolutely never happened, because that would probably be a lie (even through i'm sure i absolutely never used it ingame) And in general conversations i also think that this is unacceptable. And also somehow embarassing not being able to talk "normally" without them.

  7. #347
    Quote Originally Posted by Funkyjunky View Post
    "Indeed, they are both sex offenders" - LazuOG

    It seems like your argument is based on lack of knowledge.

    "Guys.. A Volvo and a Ferrari can't both be cars.."
    I want to read your honest explanation of how saying that is the same as lumping a 20yr old manchild who said a word in private together with people commiting racially motivated manslaughter.

    I am baffled by how anyone can justify this kind of labelling, and how fast and liberal they are at handing out these ruinous tags. How unempathetic and emotionally void does one have to be to be okay with completely ruining someone over something like this. The dude said a bad word, we get it. He's an asshole for it. But he is no way a racist for anything's sake. Think of the mental image you have when you think about a "racist". You think it's fair to be labelled that when all you did was being unintentionally stupid?

    Ppl get on their high horses, defending this ideal and founding their actions in empathy towards the affected, yet have no problem throwing some kids life under the bus over a rekatively small slipup.

    What a great bunch of moral people you are.

  8. #348
    Quote Originally Posted by LazuOG View Post
    I want to read your honest explanation of how saying that is the same as lumping a 20yr old manchild who said a word in private together with people commiting racially motivated manslaughter.
    I am not saying it is the same. I am pointing out a major flaw in your logic. I am sorry if you dont see it.

    Lets recall your example:

    "you would not call the ass-slapper a rapist, wouldn't you? So why do you call someone who slips up and uses the N-word the same thing you would call a racially motivated murderer?"

    No, i wouldnt call the ass-slapper a rapist. But applying the same analogy, i wouldn't call someone that uses the n-word a racially motivated murder. Because thats just a stupid analogy. I would call him a racist.

    You made a stupid analogy that clearly lacks any logic.
    Quote Originally Posted by LazuOG View Post
    I am baffled by how anyone can justify this kind of labelling, and how fast and liberal they are at handing out these ruinous tags. How unempathetic and emotionally void does one have to be to be okay with completely ruining someone over something like this.
    Ye, its us thats completely ruining it. Not him for being a bad person thats unable to follow simple rules.
    Quote Originally Posted by LazuOG View Post
    The dude said a bad word, we get it. He's an asshole for it. But he is no way a racist for anything's sake. Think of the mental image you have when you think about a "racist". You think it's fair to be labelled that when all you did was being unintentionally stupid?
    What? Mental image? Are you encouraging stereotyping?
    Quote Originally Posted by LazuOG View Post
    Ppl get on their high horses, defending this ideal and founding their actions in empathy towards the affected, yet have no problem throwing some kids life under the bus over a rekatively small slipup.

    What a great bunch of moral people you are.
    Meh.. I just merely pointed out a flaw in your logic /shrug
    And he threw himself.. What ever happened to being responsible for your own actions?

  9. #349
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jag7891 View Post
    This seems like a big nothing. Bliz cutting ties financially would be one thing, but this seems excessive. I'm not even sure Bliz has the right to pull this move since it was done through an out of game source. They can certainly cut sponsoring them in tournaments, but not ban their accounts. Cancel culture is one of the most toxic and evil things permeating society today.
    In their terms of service they reserve the right to terminate your account for any reason up to and including they just didn't like how their coffee tastes one particular morning.

    If someone gets 'cancelled' it's typically because they did something shitty and businesses don't want the association to damage their finances. This is literally the free market at work doing what it does best: maximize income without regard for context or nuance.

    All that said, it seems much more likely they were permanently banned from engaging in the competitive scene, rather than their accounts banned from the game entirely. There's precedent, yes, but at the same time Blizzard is in a very unenviable position of their own making regarding how things look when they permaban someone for something that happened unrelated to the game itself.
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  10. #350
    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    Wasn't really the sort of school where people fought. It was a grammar school where the nerds who thought they were hard would talk about fighting in the park after school, circle each other for 5 minutes, then it would get broken up. I don't go out to places where people fight.
    Having gone to an urban high school... I heard the n world multiple times a day every single day of my high school career.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Velerios View Post
    Look at disney: getting outraged because of an old movie that was made in a total different time where this was widely accepted is stupid (dumbo for example). But would i watch a movie that would do such a thing nowadays? Probably not.
    One of the things that I think people got right recently was Gone With the Wind. Gone With the Wind is a stupendously excellent story (the book is better than the movie) that, yes, includes racist elements, but largely paints a picture of what life was like during that time. If you haven't seen the movie or read the book, it's worth it. It's wistful but also cynical and insightful, and those two things actually can mix.

    The movie was recently banned on HBO Max but brought back with a prologue contextualizing it. I was glad to see that people got it right, and tried to recognize the achievement and talk about its flaws.

    Great article about it:

    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...deracy/398663/

  11. #351
    Quote Originally Posted by Funkyjunky View Post
    I am not saying it is the same. I am pointing out a major flaw in your logic. I am sorry if you dont see it.
    A major flaw you say. Alright, I'll have a look.

    Quote Originally Posted by Funkyjunky View Post
    Lets recall your example:

    "you would not call the ass-slapper a rapist, wouldn't you? So why do you call someone who slips up and uses the N-word the same thing you would call a racially motivated murderer?"

    No, i wouldnt call the ass-slapper a rapist. But applying the same analogy, i wouldn't call someone that uses the n-word a racially motivated murder. Because thats just a stupid analogy. I would call him a racist.
    How can you claim my argument is devoid of any logic and then prove it on the spot?
    The whole point was to show that, despite the massive discrepancy in severity, both the manchild who said the bad word and the person who physically assaulted people of colour out of racial motivation get the same label. Racist. Thank you for further illustrating my point.

    I used the rapist and racist examples because those are the go-to stigmas that are put on people, but nice attempt to derail my analogy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Funkyjunky View Post
    You made a stupid analogy that clearly lacks any logic.
    Yeah, we saw that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Funkyjunky View Post
    Ye, its us thats completely ruining it. Not him for being a bad person thats unable to follow simple rules.
    Its cancel culrure that calls for these absurd punishments.

    Quote Originally Posted by Funkyjunky View Post
    What? Mental image? Are you encouraging stereotyping?
    What? Idgaf who you imagine. What I'm saying is that real racists are vile people, and that the persons in question don't even remotely fit in that category. Don't try too hard man, you'll run out of buzzwords.

    Quote Originally Posted by Funkyjunky View Post
    Meh.. I just merely pointed out a flaw in your logic /shrug
    /cringe

    Quote Originally Posted by Funkyjunky View Post
    And he threw himself.. What ever happened to being responsible for your own actions?
    He took responsibility for his actions, but it's other people that blow the repercussions out of proportion and deliberately ruin people's lives.
    Last edited by LazuOG; 2020-10-20 at 09:51 PM.

  12. #352
    I don't believe them to be racist. Context matters, intention matters, people who willingly throw people under the bus and try to end their entire careers over something being blown out of proportion are evil and spiteful. Of course people make mistakes, but not all crimes are equal and they don't need to be tied down or married to those mistakes forever.
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  13. #353
    If you use that word, joking or not and you're not a PoC...you're trash, end of story.
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  14. #354
    Quote Originally Posted by LazuOG View Post
    How can you claim my argument is devoid of any logic and then prove it on the spot?
    Let me remind you; Your argument was he wasn't racist, because other actions of racism involves physical violence.

    Quote Originally Posted by LazuOG View Post
    The whole point was to show that, despite the massive discrepancy in severity, both the manchild who said the bad word and the person who physically assaulted people of colour out of racial motivation get the same label. Racist. Thank you for further illustrating my point.
    And here you go again. Apparently being a racist is okay with you, as long as it doesn't involve violence.

    Yes, There are many types of racism - but in the end, they are all racists. It doesn't matter that someone else is a bigger racist. Its litterally the definition of the word.
    Quote Originally Posted by LazuOG View Post
    Its cancel culrure that calls for these absurd punishments.
    So what? Cancel culture is bad? I dont get what your point is. And we have only heard one side of the story.
    Quote Originally Posted by LazuOG View Post
    What? Idgaf who you imagine. What I'm saying is that real racists are vile people, and that the persons in question don't even remotely fit in that category. Don't try too hard man, you'll run out of buzzwords.
    Real racists are based on your stereotype? ye, i guess you should take your own advise and don't try to hard.

  15. #355
    Brewmaster Syce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apustus View Post
    I've said it before and I'll say it again; calling someone a nigger isn't and doesn't automatically make you racist.
    True, BUT people SHOULD start to expand their vocabulary so they do not ever have to use the word again.

  16. #356
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    So you sit in the ignorance camp then? One of those people who think racism is over because segregation ended?
    I don't necessarily agree with him, but that is actually not what he said at all.
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  17. #357
    The Insane Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INVASMANIXOXOXO View Post
    I don't necessarily agree with him, but that is actually not what he said at all.
    What he did said puts him in the ignorant camp with other people who think slur’s and other forms of racism are no longer a problem because things like slavery and segregation are over.

    Well that or mind numbingly stupid but I’ll give them more credit then that.

  18. #358
    Quote Originally Posted by Oishi View Post
    WHY DOesnT EMiNem Do iT WheN CaRDI B doEs
    If someone can't then nobody can. Pretty simple concept.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Funkyjunky View Post
    For reference; the awc rules they broke:

    .. and a friendly reminder that this is a onesided story. Maybe there is more to it..
    Wow that's pretty ridiculous. So you can't even say any profanity on stream if you're involved in it. It was in the rules ahead of time so yeah they should have known if they actually read it. Still I wonder how many people got perma banned for f bombs which are equally against that rule.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    So you sit in the ignorance camp then? One of those people who think racism is over because segregation ended?
    Nope it definitely isn't especially since it's become fashionable for racism to be accepted when coming from minorities while the majority of the rest of us actually will shame and go after a real racist against minorities.

    Jada Pinkett says she's had times she hated white women for being white women.... oh she's just biased not racist....ok then that is literally textbook racism.

  19. #359
    The Insane Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohwell View Post
    Nope it definitely isn't especially since it's become fashionable for racism to be accepted when coming from minorities while the majority of the rest of us actually will shame and go after a real racist against minorities.

    Jada Pinkett says she's had times she hated white women for being white women.... oh she's just biased not racist....ok then that is literally textbook racism.
    what does any of that have to do with ignorant people thinking slur's aren't racist any more?

  20. #360
    Quote Originally Posted by ohwell View Post
    Nope it definitely isn't especially since it's become fashionable for racism to be accepted when coming from minorities while the majority of the rest of us actually will shame and go after a real racist against minorities.

    Jada Pinkett says she's had times she hated white women for being white women.... oh she's just biased not racist....ok then that is literally textbook racism.
    In recent years the so called minorities are far more racist than the ones they attack, but nobody wants to acknowledge that truth and instead hides behind a goofy progressive social justice movement, which is as irrational and hypocritical as most of the others going on these days. I bet half of the celebrities and companies that spout all that nonsense actually know how ridiculous it is, but they get put under so much pressure to conform or lose their careers that they have no choice but to pretend to go along with it. Now these players will probably end up being forced to fake an apology in order to get out of a ridiculous punishment.

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