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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    I do think grey-level enemies should not count towards the cap to make trivial farming easier.
    Yes, it's particularly annoying on old content. Takes forever to kill off an entire dungeon after running through everything to the boss.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Yeah that and Spell Variance, that's what people wanted out of Classic.

    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Area_damage_and_healing_caps
    Patch 2.2.0 (2007-09-25): Added.
    That sounds pretty much like what I said? Prior to 2.2 there was no damage cap / damage out put so that was somewhat different though a couple abilities were capped (like whirlwind), but not many. Then 2.2.0 to 3.3.0 looks like cap was at 20 then briefly 3.3.0 to 5.2.0 they swapped it to a different system that capped it at 10 on total damage it looks like, but still damage on more mobs just lowered the value it did. So say up to 10k on 10 mobs (1k each), but with 20 it did 500 resulting in same damage. Then 5.2.0 to 8.3 went back to 20 and worked like previously.

    So back then you could still hit as many targets as you wanted, but after it hit X number it started do Z damage instead of Y.

    The main complaint people have now is instead of Blizzard doing the same they just flat out cap how many you hit.

    Let's say the cap is 5 and total damage you do is 5000. So instead of making it so hitting up to 5 targets would do the max 5000 and then if you hit 10 it would still do 5000 just less per target they made it so if you hit 10 targets only 5 get damaged. That's probably the bigger complaint some probably have. If they kept it at the old system and just lowered the "max target damage threshold" or whatever you want to call it that would allow a similar philosophy to be achieved. This would also make it so trivial content (old expansions) not have the issue because the legacy buff would increase it anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Yes, it's particularly annoying on old content. Takes forever to kill off an entire dungeon after running through everything to the boss.
    Best part is you can't skip a lot of mobs like you use to because of our level. A level 35 (classic cap) can still see a level 50 pretty easily (similar boat at 60 probably) whereas a level 60 mob would just ignore most of us at level 120.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    As a Fury warrior, I've been AoE capped for the past couple expansions so I saw no difference.

    I do think grey-level enemies should not count towards the cap to make trivial farming easier.
    Just make the aoe cap only apply in m+.

  4. #24
    Yes, I definitely noticed the aggro distance change in Legion Karazhan. Not happy about that.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Tesshin83 View Post
    Too often people just rounded up 10 mobs, giving the healer heart attack and aoed everything. Its fun once and a while but when people try it all the time and it causes wipes in dungeons for the sake of boring gameplay then I think its a good change.
    So because you, or some imaginary made up group of plebs, suck at healing means I have to forcefully be restricted in my way of playing when I'm derping around with my group of 5 fully capable players who had no quarrels with this oh-so-degenerate and oh-so heart attack inducing style of play before?

    I'm so fucking glad that this game keeps catering to people who are too stupid to control a mouse. Like, I'm so fucking glad we keep losing our freedoms because a bunch of random ass bad players, who will remain bad no matter the circumstances, have to be protected from their own badness. So fucking glad we lost AoE because baddies can't handle AoE. So glad we lost half of our off-GCD shit because baddies couldn't muster the skills to press 2 buttons at once. So glad we lost fucking master looter because baddies couldn't just leave their abusive shit guilds. So absolutely fucking stoked that Blizzard is always able to just step in and remove all of these oh-so-degenerate systems to prevent idiots from idiotically idioting themselves.

    Can't wait for Blizzard to remove dying because dying is fucking degenerate and bad people were spending a disproportional amount of time being dead. I can only imagine how much better Super Mario would've been without degenerate Shrooms or Stars that promoted this unhealthy sense of rush and this degenerate pressure to just go faster at all times. I can only imagine how much better literally every single game in existence would've been if you simply just could not possibly do anything wrong ever. So please, go ahead and remove more freedoms just so that 70 y/0 grandmas don't feel excluded from Hall of Fame raiding because encounters aren't designed with a healer reaction time of 5 minutes per cast in mind.

    I am just so fucking glad that everyone knows oh-so well what's fun and what's not. And I'm even more fucking glad when all of you are able to point out how I'm just having fun the wrong way. Y'alls a gift to humanity.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    That sounds pretty much like what I said?
    You asked for a source that TBC had an AoE Cap, i provided it.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    Could you explain why instead of making a reactionary comment?
    I sort of agree with the OP. The part about the cap... not about the developers. I enjoy an unlimited cap on several of the classes. I participate in low skill level content (compared to the mythic folks) and enjoy an AOE fest occasionally. It allows me to feel over powering and heroic.... which is a big part of the reason that I play MMO's. Since I don't play the same content as a lot of folks, perhaps my view is colored by my limited activities and uncapped AOE is a problem. If that is the case, then I will just grumble a bit and play the game that is paid for with my subscription.

    Stay safe and have fun!

  8. #28
    Well, I think you have a point. By choosing to cap at only five, they are forcing players to pull each group individually, and that destroys how mythic+ and previously challenge modes have always been played. Even if they capped at 10, I think that would have been a lot better, stopping us from pulling the whole dungeon, but still leaving a window for skill and balls.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    You asked for a source that TBC had an AoE Cap, i provided it.
    I mean it did and it didn't. It just essentially was saying "there is no cap on the amount of targets you can hit, but the amount of damage can be capped". Where as the system they went with is "Every thing use to be capped on amount of targets you hit" which is what Ion was essentially saying. Two different things.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Metrox View Post
    I sort of agree with the OP. The part about the cap... not about the developers. I enjoy an unlimited cap on several of the classes. I participate in low skill level content (compared to the mythic folks) and enjoy an AOE fest occasionally. It allows me to feel over powering and heroic.... which is a big part of the reason that I play MMO's. Since I don't play the same content as a lot of folks, perhaps my view is colored by my limited activities and uncapped AOE is a problem. If that is the case, then I will just grumble a bit and play the game that is paid for with my subscription.

    Stay safe and have fun!
    Whether or not you agree with him is irrelevant to my point.
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  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Gasparde View Post
    So because you, or some imaginary made up group of plebs, suck at healing means I have to forcefully be restricted in my way of playing when I'm derping around with my group of 5 fully capable players who had no quarrels with this oh-so-degenerate and oh-so heart attack inducing style of play before
    The actual reason is that 5 players much better then you and your mates found out doing super pulls was the optimal strategy in M+ which basically fossilised the MDI meta around specs that could double and triple dip on aoe (such as BM and unholy) and blizzard didn't want it's baby being hurt meme pulls had to go.
    Tonight for me is a special day. I want to go outside of the house of the girl I like with a gasoline barrel and write her name on the road and set it on fire and tell her to get out too see it (is this illegal)?

  12. #32
    I haven't even noticed the cap.

    Lol
    Scheduled weekly maintenance caught me by surprise.

  13. #33
    Oh, noes. The current superspeed AoE M+ meta might have to change. WAAAAAHHHH!!

    About time they fixed that crap.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Gasparde View Post
    So because you, or some imaginary made up group of plebs, suck at healing means I have to forcefully be restricted in my way of playing when I'm derping around with my group of 5 fully capable players who had no quarrels with this oh-so-degenerate and oh-so heart attack inducing style of play before?

    I'm so fucking glad that this game keeps catering to people who are too stupid to control a mouse. Like, I'm so fucking glad we keep losing our freedoms because a bunch of random ass bad players, who will remain bad no matter the circumstances, have to be protected from their own badness. So fucking glad we lost AoE because baddies can't handle AoE. So glad we lost half of our off-GCD shit because baddies couldn't muster the skills to press 2 buttons at once. So glad we lost fucking master looter because baddies couldn't just leave their abusive shit guilds. So absolutely fucking stoked that Blizzard is always able to just step in and remove all of these oh-so-degenerate systems to prevent idiots from idiotically idioting themselves.

    Can't wait for Blizzard to remove dying because dying is fucking degenerate and bad people were spending a disproportional amount of time being dead. I can only imagine how much better Super Mario would've been without degenerate Shrooms or Stars that promoted this unhealthy sense of rush and this degenerate pressure to just go faster at all times. I can only imagine how much better literally every single game in existence would've been if you simply just could not possibly do anything wrong ever. So please, go ahead and remove more freedoms just so that 70 y/0 grandmas don't feel excluded from Hall of Fame raiding because encounters aren't designed with a healer reaction time of 5 minutes per cast in mind.

    I am just so fucking glad that everyone knows oh-so well what's fun and what's not. And I'm even more fucking glad when all of you are able to point out how I'm just having fun the wrong way. Y'alls a gift to humanity.
    Well you made a perfectly good case for no aoe cap creates not only degenerate gameplay, but degenerate people.

    People who prefer that type of playstyle are usually bad at the game because they get anxious by the thought of any type of playstyle that requires a functioning brain.

    Thats all I can say to your tryhard rambling.

  15. #35
    Stood in the Fire Mightytasty's Avatar
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    M+ needs to have its own set of rules at this point.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    The actual reason is that 5 players much better then you and your mates found out doing super pulls was the optimal strategy in M+ which basically fossilised the MDI meta around specs that could double and triple dip on aoe (such as BM and unholy) and blizzard didn't want it's baby being hurt meme pulls had to go.
    Oh no, 50 random ass people in the MDI doing some random ass shit I couldn't give any less fucks about doing something I couldn't give any less fucks about. Quick, we have to alter the entire game to make sure that no one else will be able to do that - might as well remove kiting since we're at it because the evil MDI players abuse that all the time... how degenerate!

    Thank GOD there's someone ready to step in to save us all from ourselves. I'm sure the evil MDIers will see the errors of their way and stop their degenerate madness. Just, really, thank you for pointing out again how my perception of the game was somehow wrong because of something someone else did in some way despite me making a conscious effort not to give a single fuck about it and just play the game in which ever way I wanted.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tesshin83 View Post
    Well you made a perfectly good case for no aoe cap creates not only degenerate gameplay, but degenerate people.

    People who prefer that type of playstyle are usually bad at the game because they get anxious by the thought of any type of playstyle that requires a functioning brain.

    Thats all I can say to your tryhard rambling.
    hurr hurr, I disagree with you, which just proves ur bad.

    Your arguing skills are as flawless as your arguing skills.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by HoodKazekage View Post
    Why was the cap even implemented?
    https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...owlands/490978

    We’ve definitely heard a lot of feedback from players that bursting down larger and larger pulls has become an overly dominant tactic in much of the game. This is particularly evident in questing and dungeons, which has made it difficult for many classes to find a clear role.

    While there are a number of variables contributing to this trend, high burst area of effect (AOE) damage against an unlimited number of targets has made it increasingly possible for players to take down large groups of enemies without the players ever facing a proportionate level of danger. In Shadowlands, we’re looking at changes that would broaden the field of tactical options, and in the process, more clearly differentiate the strengths of classes in a variety of AOE situations.

    For example, we’d like to see Outlaw Rogues or Fury Warriors excel in situations with 4 to 5 targets in close proximity to each other, while ranged casters like Frost Mages or Affliction Warlocks perform better in sustained damage against groups of 5 or more targets. To accomplish this, we need to revisit the maximum number of targets that many abilities can hit (also known as the ability’s “target cap”), and adjust them accordingly. In situations where a target cap doesn’t make sense, we’re adding a new kind of damage falloff that causes the damage done to each target to be reduced gradually as the number of targets increases.

    Most players who are used to fighting 3 to 5 enemies at a time will notice very little difference with this approach. On the other hand, players who are accustomed to pulling 10-20 enemies at a time will experience longer, more threatening engagements. Sustained AOE damage may become an equally viable option in that situation, but both approaches will put significantly more pressure on the group to survive.
    Not that I agree, I think AoE cap is shit change too but that's their reason.
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  18. #38
    I somehow suspect OP plays (demon-)hunter.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Mightytasty View Post
    M+ needs to have its own set of rules at this point.
    Agree. Don't make changes to the whole game because of M+
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  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Gasparde View Post
    So because you, or some imaginary made up group of plebs, suck at healing means I have to forcefully be restricted in my way of playing when I'm derping around with my group of 5 fully capable players who had no quarrels with this oh-so-degenerate and oh-so heart attack inducing style of play before?
    The game is trading out derp-derp-aoe-cc-and-nuke-it-all gameplay for smaller packs that have more decisions and consequences. If there is a commitment to tuning around smaller packs, then dungeon comps actually become slightly more interesting because at the highest end you will have to make decisions between target capped classes and uncapped classes. There will still be a meta, there will still be classes that have too much power, but in general it is a better model to try and build upon than "lets try and make every class do exactly the same amount of AoE damage" because then as soon as one has a bit more damage or a bit more utility you have a 3x rogue situation like we saw in the first half of BfA.

    If AoE cap is holding you back it means you're probably doing content that's too easy for you or that the system still needs some tuning. And yes, it would be lovely if everything and every new system was perfect upon release, but I'd rather take a couple steps back and take a better direction for the next 1000 steps than commit to a crappy direction for 1000 steps just because I've already committed a couple steps to it.

    Or second option: you could stop pretending that you are incapable of rerolling to an uncapped class. I realize you wouldn't be able to sit here and complain anymore, but the option does exist if you legitimately think target cap is what's going to hold you back.

    Target cap does not prevent:
    pulling hard mobs together
    pulling over cap and cleaving off of higher hp targets
    pulling things onto bosses
    chaining mobs into the next pack as soon as you go under target cap
    running comps with uncapped classes, hell run 3x casters and use all that skill of yours to deal with mechanics since you won't have melee kicks and control to do it.

    Even flavor wise it makes more sense for melee to be capped: I don't care how strong you want to imagine your character is, your blade loses energy every time it hit a target, the idea that you can just slash through 20 guys in front of you is silly (and as a plus this even opens up the opportunity for certain items or weapons to affect target cap: a blade of legendary sharpness that gives some/all your abilities +2 more targets and things along those lines).
    This doesn't mean there won't be some abilities that make no sense with/without a cap, but it certainly moves the majority into a more sensible place in my eyes.
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