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  1. #1

    This AoE cap has got to go..

    Who the hell gires these programmers...

  2. #2
    Could you explain why instead of making a reactionary comment?
    Goodbye-Forever-MMO-Champ
    Still here and still posting

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by treekush View Post
    Who the hell gires these programmers...
    Make a case or go away.
    Why do you think it should go?

  4. #4
    Monkeys paw wish granted since you didnt mention where it has to go we made the cap 4 targeta

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by treekush View Post
    Who the hell gires these programmers...
    As others have said, explaining why is a better idea than just saying this.

    Secondly, you are looking at the cap from current prepatch standards instead of SL standards. Right now you can pull a bunch and AoE them down. In SL you'll be doing less of that and it is more for dungeon/raid content rather than solo content.

  6. #6
    This totally needed its own thread.

    I'm liking it, personally. If anything, threads like these are a case of why it should stay just the way it is.

  7. #7
    I think it's a good change. Pulling the entire dungeon at once shouldn't be a legitimate strategy.

  8. #8
    Don't worry.

    Playing your DH will be still as brain-dead as it used to be, only now you might have to actually compete with another melee class.

  9. #9
    Why was the cap even implemented?

  10. #10
    Well, it seems to annoy the right people so its fine I think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HoodKazekage View Post
    Why was the cap even implemented?
    Because it lead go "degenerete" gameplay to use Ions own words. Too often people just rounded up 10 mobs, giving the healer heart attack and aoed everything. Its fun once and a while but when people try it all the time and it causes wipes in dungeons for the sake of boring gameplay then I think its a good change.

  11. #11
    I think the AoE-Cap should go for "weak opponents".

    So non-elite, green and lower enemies and old bosses. So the aoe-cap would only affect current content in dungeons and raids. But seriously it needs to go for older content or open world.

    Just remove it from old content!

  12. #12
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by treekush View Post
    Who the hell gires these programmers...
    idk if you know but the Aoe cap was a thing in the game since TBC, it was only recently it was removed, then being re-added with shadowlands casual.. that's what people want apparently, more "classic" stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HoodKazekage View Post
    Why was the cap even implemented?
    it was implemented back in TBC to counter just mass pulling with a lot of healers/tanks and then quickly aoeing stuff down, which became quite the worry, and was only recently removed, and then well not re-added.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Tesshin83 View Post
    Because it lead go "degenerete" gameplay to use Ions own words. Too often people just rounded up 10 mobs, giving the healer heart attack and aoed everything. Its fun once and a while but when people try it all the time and it causes wipes in dungeons for the sake of boring gameplay then I think its a good change.
    Nothing against it in current content, but removing the cap on older content should be definitively done!

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    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    idk if you know but the Aoe cap was a thing in the game since TBC, it was only recently it was removed, then being re-added with shadowlands casual.. that's what people want apparently, more "classic" stuff.
    Classic stuff maybe, stupid stuff nope.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozu View Post
    I think it's a good change. Pulling the entire dungeon at once shouldn't be a legitimate strategy.
    My transmog farming older dungeons beg to differ

    Granted yeah it is annoying for older legacy dungeons, it's not make or break. Just makes some classes less efficient.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tesshin83 View Post
    Because it lead go "degenerete" gameplay to use Ions own words. Too often people just rounded up 10 mobs, giving the healer heart attack and aoed everything. Its fun once and a while but when people try it all the time and it causes wipes in dungeons for the sake of boring gameplay then I think its a good change.
    I wonder how often this was really the case though. I haven't heard or seen anything that remotely backs this up and no I'm not saying you are wrong, just curious where Ion is getting data from. At most if a group wipes to a ton of mobs and not aoe'ing down they just pull less next time.

    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    idk if you know but the Aoe cap was a thing in the game since TBC, it was only recently it was removed, then being re-added with shadowlands casual.. that's what people want apparently, more "classic" stuff.

    it was implemented back in TBC to counter just mass pulling with a lot of healers/tanks and then quickly aoeing stuff down, which became quite the worry, and was only recently removed, and then well not re-added.
    I think people are confusing things (and I think Blizzard said this was wrong to an extent). AoE caps did and didn't exist back then. They are using the formula that some are using now where it did X amount of damage to Y targets and then reduced to Z targets. Then they eventually made it hit unlimited targets at some point for same damage (no reductions) and now going back to fixed caps on some and then the XYZ on others. I can't find any information confirming TBC having caps back then other than people just saying it now.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    idk if you know but the Aoe cap was a thing in the game since TBC, it was only recently it was removed, then being re-added with shadowlands casual.. that's what people want apparently, more "classic" stuff.
    Yeah that and Spell Variance, that's what people wanted out of Classic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    I can't find any information confirming TBC having caps back then other than people just saying it now.
    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Area_damage_and_healing_caps
    Patch 2.2.0 (2007-09-25): Added.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2020-10-19 at 11:40 PM.

  16. #16
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    I think people are confusing things (and I think Blizzard said this was wrong to an extent). AoE caps did and didn't exist back then. They are using the formula that some are using now where it did X amount of damage to Y targets and then reduced to Z targets. Then they eventually made it hit unlimited targets at some point for same damage (no reductions) and now going back to fixed caps on some and then the XYZ on others. I can't find any information confirming TBC having caps back then other than people just saying it now.
    have you got me some aoe abilities from TBC?
    I can take a look.

    but for now, whirlwind
    has been target capped since vanilla, only having been removed of that cap a few expacs ago, let me check EXACTLY when.


    Cataclysm is when whirlwind had its target cap removed.

    Even the famous bladestorm, added with wotlk. had the aoe cap of 4 targets, until the next expansion which removed the aoe cap on whirlwind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Velerios View Post
    Nothing against it in current content, but removing the cap on older content should be definitively done!

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    Classic stuff maybe, stupid stuff nope.
    So are you saying classic is stupid?
    Wow bold of you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Yeah that and Spell Variance, that's what people wanted out of Classic.

    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Area_damage_and_healing_caps
    Patch 2.2.0 (2007-09-25): Added.
    i mean we are getting much more then just those from classic, but people want more classic stuff dont they?
    We are gettign back curses, ritual of doom, etc.

  17. #17
    I'm perfectly fine with an AE cap, but the way they implemented it sucks. Instead of only allowing abilities to hit 5 targets, they should split damage meteor-style past 5. So:

    1 target = 100 damage
    2 targets = 100 damage each * 2 = 200 total
    3 targets = 100 damage each * 3 = 300 total
    4 targets = 100 damage each * 4 = 400 total
    5 targets = 100 damage each * 5 = 500 total
    6 targets = 83 damage each * 6 = 500 total
    7 targets = 71 damage each * 7 = 500 total
    ...
    11 targets = 45 damage each * 11 = 500 total
    ...
    27 targets = 18 damage each * 27 = 500 total

    This way you won't have mobs taking damage unevenly and tanks will be able to maintain AE threat. You still wouldn't benefit from pulling more than 5 mobs at a time, but at least it wouldn't be a huge pain in the butt.

    This isn't exactly a groundbreaking stroke of brilliance on my part. It's how AE worked in previous expansions. I believe Cataclysm did it this way and it worked perfectly fine.
    Last edited by Schizoide; 2020-10-19 at 11:47 PM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Tesshin83 View Post
    Well, it seems to annoy the right people so its fine I think.

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    Because it lead go "degenerete" gameplay to use Ions own words. Too often people just rounded up 10 mobs, giving the healer heart attack and aoed everything. Its fun once and a while but when people try it all the time and it causes wipes in dungeons for the sake of boring gameplay then I think its a good change.
    I mean... Thats very subjective. What you call boring, many others call fun.

  19. #19
    As a Fury warrior, I've been AoE capped for the past couple expansions so I saw no difference.

    I do think grey-level enemies should not count towards the cap to make trivial farming easier.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    i mean we are getting much more then just those from classic, but people want more classic stuff dont they?
    We are gettign back curses, ritual of doom, etc.
    Point is that the AoE cap struggles to fit into the modern game.

    It's like saying "Well, Classic had a GCD on a lot of CD's" to justify the GCD change (altough now mostly reverted).
    Classic was a different game in a lot of aspects, some of which that can no longer be reunited with the modern game that easily, that doesn't mean that Classic is inheritely bad, it just no longer fits together.

    I wrote a post on this subject just today that i am going to shamelessly repost:
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Blizzard has simply developed this weird fetish for taking ideas from Classic / TBC / Wotlk and throwing them into the game without any care why this specific thing "worked" in that era.

    Back in the day, it was pretty simple, Melees were king for "Cleave" Situations (2-4 Targets), while casters started to take over at 5+ Targets, because their damage is uncapped (altough a upper cap also existed since TBC / Wotlk, which capped your damage whenever you hit 10 or more targets).

    Difference is, back then, AoE wasn't that super common, not a sizeable chunk of your raid encounters featured AoE (it was actually rather rare) and on top of that, not every class was capable of doing solid AoE dps.
    Some simply had to live with the fact that their dps sucked when a AoE situation occurred.

    And 5man dungeons were just flyover content (in Wotlk at least), you didn't give a shit whether your daily heroic was cleared within 15 or 20 minutes, you just tried to be faster for the sake of saving time.

    10 Years forward, AoE is now super common in raids, M+ is a staple part of the game and basically every spec can do a modicum of AoE, not to mention that a ton of specs have so called "Burst AoE" abilities to mow down entire trashpacks.

    It just doesn't work, you can't take a philosophy from 10 years and throw it into the current game, AoE simply has become far too common within the game to make it subject to a philosophy where this whole thing was far more niche.

    Ignoring the fact that some minor things such as clearing old raids (where said AoE cap is a real pain) wasn't a thing back then, at least not to the point where everybody expected it to be soloable by a fresh max level character.

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