This AoE cap has got to go..

[Speedlance]

They could have just lowered the damage on mobs after 5. Would feel less awkward.

[Your Mommy]

They could have just lowered the damage on mobs after 5. Would feel less awkward.

I agree with this.
Also I think the 4 cap is wonderful for dungeons, I just don't know if it'll fit for raids (and old raids) and outdoor content.

[Addiena]

I think it's a good change for the current M+ and raids in Shadowlands, for balance and class diversity's sake, but I do not understand why we can't have an uncapped AOE spell for outdoor use and old instances/raids.

Not that it's REALLY important to have one, but it's a nice QOL that they yoinked away.

Whether its a good change or not remains to be seen, we dont have enough data to make any verdict on it.

Personally its a hack job, there are better ways to go about capping aoe damage that doesnt cause issues with tanking huge numbers of mobs, there is a lot of content in game that was designed around not being aoe capped and most if not all of it still has not been changed to suit the new cap.

That aside, playing an AOE class right now with this .. hack job feels downright terrible, you feel weak and unable to respond to the above unchanged content with any degree of speed during a fight. Tanks jobs have also become more complicated as a result of the cap, they already have a lot to manage during the fight and now they have to manage how many targets they are trying to hold threat on at the same time, a lot of tanks should be able to adjust but it's just another reason for them to switch away from an already thankless job.

Im unconvinced the current implementation will be effective at stopping the problem Blizzard believes exists, I fully expect them to change it in a future patch with another "oops we totally fucked up here" moment.

[Bumkin]

Make a case or go away.
Why do you think it should go?

from a RP pov it doesnt make sense, if my warrior holding 2 axes starts spinning doing a whirlwind hes gonna hit all around him, but i guess aoe should also hit friendly targets then

[kaintk]

they should do something like : for aoe cap at 5, the first 5 mob receive full dmg and all other mob receive something like 5-10% of the damage, it will be crap to pull everything from your level but would not handicap peoples who farm old dungeon

because tbh, this change suck for old farming dungeon and raid

and the tanks ? how they will keep aggro if there is more than 5 mob in a fight boss or whatever ?

[Raisei]

Why was the cap even implemented?

Simple. Because before the meta idea of a dungeon was: "Pull 5 groups and burst aoe them with Time Warp before your Tanks CDs run out"

In the extreme cases of MDI there were entire areas pulled at once and then kited into the boss for absurd levels of damage. This kind of play might be fun for the dps who reach new levels of absurdness on the meter, but for Tanks it's super frustrating and stupid, especially if you are not of the god-tier tanks that can shurg off any damage and deal 100k dps themselves (Warrior) or survive anything without doing much (Monk). As a Death Knight it's extremely stressful, since your life spikes up and down like crazy in such a pull and one messed timing will spell your doom and the groups right after.

[VinceVega]

Who the hell gires these programmers...

Nah i think it is good. Other classes who are not AoE Gods have a chance now at spots in Mythic+... will still be a melee heaven but there is a chance

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from a RP pov it doesnt make sense, if my warrior holding 2 axes starts spinning doing a whirlwind hes gonna hit all around him, but i guess aoe should also hit friendly targets then

Doesn't it though? Are there really 100 mobs standing right beside you? Inside of each other? From a RP point fo few it would not be possible to hite more than 4 or 5 in the first place

[Basil2]

Without a cap, it was extremely nice to see damage numbers - a lot of numbers! Numbers everywhere!!

[shadycharacter1]

Who the hell gires these programmers...

what do programmers have to do with it? They do what they're told, if something is done it's because their idea guy, Ion Hazzikostas decided it was the way to go.

[erifwodahs]

Well you made a perfectly good case for no aoe cap creates not only degenerate gameplay, but degenerate people.

People who prefer that type of playstyle are usually bad at the game because they get anxious by the thought of any type of playstyle that requires a functioning brain.

Thats all I can say to your tryhard rambling.

AoE pull tactic is dangerous and requires functioning brain, anyone who just tries that and thinks well I will just press my 3 buttons here so mobs will die are dead before the tank even finished the pull. It might be bad because it creates a very distinct "meta" for m+ tournaments but what you said is... sadly dumb.

[Zephire]

I have not played beta but I would believe that SL content would be designed around the AoE caps. BFA isn't, clearly. I think it will be fine in SL but I might be wrong here. What say you beta testers?

[Levogames]

First of all: "hires"
Then yes, the aoe cap just prevents us of doing joyful amounts of damage and it challenges our survability.
Also it showed that they can't balance it properly bc the best one target build that Frost DK have had in 5 expansions had to be nerfed because it was more powerful than the pure aoe build.

[darklogrus]

A significant amount of people play m+. This change doesn't just affect MDI players, nor is it only aimed at MDI players.

Furthermore, even if that wasn't the case, games are almost always balanced around the upper echelon of players. That isn't unique to world of warcraft.

Of course this is a change that was brought on by the MDI with the Unholys and BMs doing mass pulls for 2 trillion damage. Its the same reason why Obs got thrown in at the end to counter all the Rogue shroud runs an notta more.

An nothing is balanced, stuffs just hard nerfed and counter nowadays after the fact. These guys will laugh at Blizzard as they do their workarounds and the rest will have to be annoyed by it..

[Artale]

My transmog farming older dungeons beg to differ

Granted yeah it is annoying for older legacy dungeons, it's not make or break. Just makes some classes less efficient.



I wonder how often this was really the case though. I haven't heard or seen anything that remotely backs this up and no I'm not saying you are wrong, just curious where Ion is getting data from. At most if a group wipes to a ton of mobs and not aoe'ing down they just pull less next time.



I think people are confusing things (and I think Blizzard said this was wrong to an extent). AoE caps did and didn't exist back then. They are using the formula that some are using now where it did X amount of damage to Y targets and then reduced to Z targets. Then they eventually made it hit unlimited targets at some point for same damage (no reductions) and now going back to fixed caps on some and then the XYZ on others. I can't find any information confirming TBC having caps back then other than people just saying it now.

Only Tanks get unlimited cap afaik. Might be non-Tank specs on shared abilities, not sure.

I agree with the middle part that you quoted; as a Healer I hated all the Jenkins pulls without regard for the Healer's or their own capabilities. Especially with Tanks that can't handle huge pulls.

[Twdft]

Simple. Because before the meta idea of a dungeon was: "Pull 5 groups and burst aoe them with Time Warp before your Tanks CDs run out"

In the extreme cases of MDI there were entire areas pulled at once and then kited into the boss for absurd levels of damage. This kind of play might be fun for the dps who reach new levels of absurdness on the meter, but for Tanks it's super frustrating and stupid, especially if you are not of the god-tier tanks that can shurg off any damage and deal 100k dps themselves (Warrior) or survive anything without doing much (Monk). As a Death Knight it's extremely stressful, since your life spikes up and down like crazy in such a pull and one messed timing will spell your doom and the groups right after.

Mythic+ stops giving better gear at +15 but you need to do more damage the higher you get. So not only for MDI but for everyone going +16 and higher there comes a point when you can't improve your damage by gear so you actually have to pull bigger to beat the timer.

By setting a hard cap on gear and AoE Blizzard sets a hard cap on damage that can be done in a certain amount of time. There will be a key level at which nothing you do can improve your possible damage, effectively setting a hard cap on M+.

Until now that cap was skill based "how big of a pull can you survive" until the maximum of pulling the entire dungeon.

[HoodKazekage]

Well, it seems to annoy the right people so its fine I think.

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Because it lead go "degenerete" gameplay to use Ions own words. Too often people just rounded up 10 mobs, giving the healer heart attack and aoed everything. Its fun once and a while but when people try it all the time and it causes wipes in dungeons for the sake of boring gameplay then I think its a good change.

But why not let players make that decision for themselves ? Just seems like a weird change to limit player mistakes

[Mozu]

Of course this is a change that was brought on by the MDI with the Unholys and BMs doing mass pulls for 2 trillion damage. Its the same reason why Obs got thrown in at the end to counter all the Rogue shroud runs an notta more.

An nothing is balanced, stuffs just hard nerfed and counter nowadays after the fact. These guys will laugh at Blizzard as they do their workarounds and the rest will have to be annoyed by it..

It wasn't just the MDI teams doing those pulls. Every person who had any clue about them were doing them, which is an enormous part of the m+ playerbase. Just because people don't do the broken strategies in +5s doesn't mean it shouldn't be balanced.

[Ophenia]

Next change they implement will be "You can now only pull enemies one by one". Did they really implement this cap because of absurdly niche usage such as MDI no one cares about ?

Y'know, there was two solutions. The nonsensical cap which doesn't make sense and lowers the fun obtained from huge AoEs, or implementing dangerous enemies in every single pack, enemies which are not walking piles of HP, but enemies you have to interrupt with some immunity to few controls to avoid chain-stuns maybe, so that you COULDN'T pull twenty packs at once.

But yeah, one solution was a lot easier to implement. Nerf fun situations to avoid one-time-per-year MDI meta which will be replaced by another nonsensical meta, instead of adding some challenges to Mythic+.

When something is area of effect, it should affect everything in the area.

Hey bro I have thrown this meteor coming from the sky, it has decided to hit those 4 guys but not the 7 others nearby for some reason. I don't see this make sense at all, that's even more stupid with spells with a clear area of effect on the ground.

[Huzzaa]

Glancing at these replies, I failed to notice anyone mentioning server performance issues.

From that alone, it's a good change.

Having 20 players suddenly pop a burst on an AoE pack is pretty demanding on a CPU when it's uncapped.


Yeah your fun is dialed back, but is it really that bad?

Oh boohoo, the pack dies 2 sec slower.

[Protean]

Who the hell gires these programmers...

Reroll feral and it's gone.