Why wasn't the Void Elves held accountable for necromancy?

[Zyky]

Neither the goblins nor stormheim were the reason she burned the tree and as far as the canon goes it was a genocide, neither of these things are up for debate they are both canonized by the short story’s until changed by future lore.

The funny part is she didn't even want to burn the tree lmao. She was followed to do these actions, by seasoned veterans mind you, as retaliation for what happened. The whole basis of the Horde army that marched on Ashenvale and Teldrassil was "going to silithus" originally to protect the miners that the Alliance had been murdering, with zero justification, and that's the story the Alliance knew. That's why the Night Elves were caught off guard because they sent ships down to Silithus to counter the Horde army. Being caught off guard =/= genocide. It's war and the Alliance made a decision based on the information they had, it was a bad decision, and it cost the Alliance a capital city. As far as 'canon' goes the alliance calls it genocide, it wasn't genocide by definition, that's not up for debate at all because it doesn't fit the definition of what genocide is.

All that aside, if it wasn't for the Night Elf hubris, they had plenty of time to evacuate and chose not to because they were arrogant.

[loras]

(disclaimer: please don't bring up Garrosh/Sylvanas or the Horde here; the topic is about Void Elves)

I'm a bit late to the party but why wasn't Umbric and his gang held accountable for raising up sacred Zandalari dinosaurs? I remember Kel'thuzad being ousted in Dalaran for just one single damn rat; and considering that they're proactive against threats and would-be-threats, they would have investigated their undesirable action. And then there's Anduin who's pretty much "nooooo please don't do that or we won't be any better than the Horde noooo"

Surely there would have been at least one small group of salty Sunreavers who would have manipulated the Kirin Tor and the Argent Crusade to undermine the Void Elves' reputation?

Because player characters were involved and the rule pf cool would be tarnished.

But yeah, that bit felt very dubious as one who considers his character neutral-to-good with a mild affinity for nature, light and order.
Though admittedly the entirety of Legion forced me to become more lenient with the void as my arms warrior artefact literaly kept exploding with shadow stuff (to my mild but genuine annoyance).

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The funny part is she didn't even want to burn the tree lmao. She was followed to do these actions, by seasoned veterans mind you, as retaliation for what happened. The whole basis of the Horde army that marched on Ashenvale and Teldrassil was "going to silithus" originally to protect the miners that the Alliance had been murdering, with zero justification, and that's the story the Alliance knew. That's why the Night Elves were caught off guard because they sent ships down to Silithus to counter the Horde army. Being caught off guard =/= genocide. It's war and the Alliance made a decision based on the information they had, it was a bad decision, and it cost the Alliance a capital city. As far as 'canon' goes the alliance calls it genocide, it wasn't genocide by definition, that's not up for debate at all because it doesn't fit the definition of what genocide is.

All that aside, if it wasn't for the Night Elf hubris, they had plenty of time to evacuate and chose not to because they were arrogant.

She wasn’t followed as retaliation the plan was from the start to take the tree so they could hold it hostage so they could take over Kalimdor, it wasn’t a vindictive reactive act it was a proactive scheme to trick the alliance for a chance at conquest.

As far as the people of Azeroth goes its genocide so dubious claims that it doesn’t mean the real definition really don’t matter. Just like how lol’tar ogar isn’t a real word to the people of Azeroth it is so debating its reality in our lexicon is pointless.

The night elfs were also evacuating 24/7 since the horde had a reasonable amount of force In dark shore there was no hubris they didn’t have plenty of time and again this isn’t up for debate it’s the canon.

[Zyky]

As far as the people of Azeroth goes its genocide so dubious claims that it doesn’t mean the real definition really don’t matter. Just like how lol’tar ogar isn’t a real word to the people of Azeroth it is so debating its reality in our lexicon is pointless.

The real definition is relevant because you can't call it genocide if it's not genocide lol. It's very different than a word in a fake language that has a translated meaning that actually means something lol. That would be like saying Spanish words don't exist.

The night elfs were also evacuating 24/7 since the horde had a reasonable amount of force In dark shore there was no hubris they didn’t have plenty of time and again this isn’t up for debate it’s the canon.

They really weren't. You saw, in an alliance quest where you helped evacuate the tree, that they didn't even start evacuations until AFTER the tree was already on fire.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The real definition is relevant because you can't call it genocide if it's not genocide lol. It's very different than a word in a fake language that has a translated meaning that actually means something lol. That would be like saying Spanish words don't exist.

And to the people of Azeroth it’s a genocide which is why they use the word.

They really weren't. You saw, in an alliance quest where you helped evacuate the tree, that they didn't even start evacuations until AFTER the tree was already on fire.

Your just wrong, go read Elegy it’s the canon state of events and has them evacuating 24/7 while the horde is still matching through darkshore

[valax]

(disclaimer: please don't bring up Garrosh/Sylvanas or the Horde here; the topic is about Void Elves)

I'm a bit late to the party but why wasn't Umbric and his gang held accountable for raising up sacred Zandalari dinosaurs? I remember Kel'thuzad being ousted in Dalaran for just one single damn rat; and considering that they're proactive against threats and would-be-threats, they would have investigated their undesirable action. And then there's Anduin who's pretty much "nooooo please don't do that or we won't be any better than the Horde noooo"

Surely there would have been at least one small group of salty Sunreavers who would have manipulated the Kirin Tor and the Argent Crusade to undermine the Void Elves' reputation?

The horde took care of that collecting their heads, you're welcome.
On a more serious note, i think after DK became allies both alliance and horde might have become more accepting of necroshit?

[Jester Joe]

Genocide: acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group

Sylvanas didn't care that they were Night Elves or that they worshiped Elune. She was answering crimes the Alliance put forth in attacking non-combatants in Silithus with SI: 7 and an unprovoked attack in Stormheim by Genn. By definition that is not "genocide".

You realize Shadowlands was already announced and it was shown that Sylvanas was looking to mass murder everyone to feed them to the Jailer, no?

She didn't care one bit about what was done in Silithus (You forget that the Horde also attacked the Explorer's League), she was just looking to murder as many people as she could. Her goal is literally to commit genocide on every race.

[loras]

The horde took care of that collecting their heads, you're welcome.
On a more serious note, i think after DK became allies both alliance and horde might have become more accepting of necroshit?

Your contributions to the peace of the realms are duly noted and appreciated.
I would offer a gift of Vulpera heads in return but despite being both British and dogs our Gilneans are rather bad at catching them.

[Varodoc]

What Sylvanas is trying to do is far worse than genocide. She is trying to accomplish TOTAL OMNICIDE, because she wants Death to reign supreme in the cosmos by shattering its very foundations.

[Zyky]

And to the people of Azeroth it’s a genocide which is why they use the word.

People use words all the time when they don't know what it means, that doesn't make it accurate lmao.

Your just wrong, go read Elegy it’s the canon state of events and has them evacuating 24/7 while the horde is still matching through darkshore

I don't need to read Elegy again, the in-game lore beats out any outside story, Teldrassil remained un-evacuated until the tree was literally on fire.

[Shedaar]

Void Elves can do necromancy too?
Wait, ofc they can
Yasss, more powah to the alliance

[Lorgar Aurelian]

People use words all the time when they don't know what it means, that doesn't make it accurate lmao.

And if there was any contention in the lore you’d have a point but there isn’t so as far as the canon goes it’s genocide.

I don't need to read Elegy again, the in-game lore beats out any outside story, Teldrassil remained un-evacuated until the tree was literally on fire.

well then your just wrong and willingly so.

[Daronokk]

Sorry, but you're factually wrong. I don't know if it's on purpose or you're just a low-information type.

What the Horde did at Teldrassil was genocide, it's even referred to as such in the novelization.

Just because you give something a label doesn't mean it's factually that. The bombing of Theramore has also been called a warcrime yet it was a legitimate military target. The bombing of the tree is just an act of war during war time, nothing more, nothing less. It's not genocide.

- - - Updated - - -

Void Elves can do necromancy too?
Wait, ofc they can
Yasss, more powah to the alliance

Same as AU Ner'zhul, he also used void magic to raise corpses from the dead.

[CalamityHeart]

People seem to think that war precludes genocide somehow. Why? Just because they're perpetually at war doesn't suddenly make it not genocide. They're not mutually exclusive.

[Zyky]

And if there was any contention in the lore you’d have a point but there isn’t so as far as the canon goes it’s genocide.




well then your just wrong and willingly so.

The facts are there, you're trying to use outside sources, 'canon' or not, to counter in-game experiences of the player characters. Blizzard has outright said that written works outside of the game are from a "certain perspective" and not absolute truth. The player experience is therefore more canon than outside written lore.

[Mace]

(disclaimer: please don't bring up Garrosh/Sylvanas or the Horde here; the topic is about Void Elves)

I'm a bit late to the party but why wasn't Umbric and his gang held accountable for raising up sacred Zandalari dinosaurs? I remember Kel'thuzad being ousted in Dalaran for just one single damn rat; and considering that they're proactive against threats and would-be-threats, they would have investigated their undesirable action. And then there's Anduin who's pretty much "nooooo please don't do that or we won't be any better than the Horde noooo"

Surely there would have been at least one small group of salty Sunreavers who would have manipulated the Kirin Tor and the Argent Crusade to undermine the Void Elves' reputation?

That’s coz it wasn’t necromancy. And war, nothing to be held accountable for by alliance standards.

They infused the skeletal remains of dead dinosaurs with void entities / magic they could control, then safely banished them after their purpose was done.

The action is also intentionally taken to provoke the Zandalari. The alliance is fully aware the trolls find the animals sacred but the alliance doesn’t care. This is war and the psychology helps.


Alliance players have no issue killing Zandalari within the context of the war (O must stress), they don’t have issue killing their dangerous dinosaur animals either. If the void elves can then puppet the corpses with void energy to destroy their foes then banish the void entities. Then good (for the alliance).

Necromancy violates the laws of life taking souls from shadowlands back into their decaying corpses for power, control and destruction. Very different both in terms of action and motive.

When evaluating void elf actions and motives, read the text blizzard supply on them to contextualise their actions. What they say is very important.

You will notice the void elves are modelled in the high elf nobility frame as modelled by Alleria. They have an edge (emo edge) cos they seek power but their motives are noble, so utilising dangerous source like the void is where they go. But they believed that it could be harnessed to help the plight of their world and defend their allies Without being corrupted.

Alleria proves them right hence why we have this

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The facts are there, you're trying to use outside sources, 'canon' or not, to counter in-game experiences of the player characters. Blizzard has outright said that written works outside of the game are from a "certain perspective" and not absolute truth. The player experience is therefore more canon than outside written lore.

Again your just wrong there’s nothing more to it then that. You can make up your own head canon and try and pick and choose what parts are canon and what’s not but it’s not up to you and you’ll never stop being wrong.

[Magical Mudcrab]

don't mind if I move the goalpost a bit but how about Void + necromancy? so far only the Alliance is cool with them and so I thought the others wouldnt

I don't think there would be a reason for the Alliance to be particularly bothered by Void Elves using Necromancy. Are Void Elves using Necromancy any more or less deplorable than Death Knights - Undead who once served the Lich King - using Necromancy? I would say no, at least not in any practical sense, and the Alliance during the war campaign seemed more than happy to allow the Void Elves to use their magic, and in many instances it was in fact Magister Umbric that cautioned against the Void's overuse. I would suspect that they give the Void Elves a certain amount of leeway because there's an expectation that they know their limits and can be trusted to work within them.

[Thage]

Just because you give something a label doesn't mean it's factually that. The bombing of Theramore has also been called a warcrime yet it was a legitimate military target. The bombing of the tree is just an act of war during war time, nothing more, nothing less. It's not genocide.

Theramore technically was a war crime for the same reasons the UN considers employing chemical weapons on the battlefield a war crime; we know from the external novels that most peoples of Azeroth view weapons of mass destruction along a similar vein as we do in real life in both moral and ethical terms, and have since the mana-bomb was introduced in The Burning Crusade and the Blight in Vanilla. Teldrassil was described as a genocide in-universe because the Horde destroyed a primarily-civilian settlement, killing a large chunk of the night elves' civilian populace in what looked to be a deliberate attempt to purge the night elves from Kalimdor. Attempts to purge an entire populace from an area are classified as genocides in common parlance, even if you wouldn't be able to win a court case with that argument.

Same as AU Ner'zhul, he also used void magic to raise corpses from the dead.

Sorta. The void elves don't so much raise the corpses from the dead as they do use the corpses as a skinsuit for lesser void creatures. That's the main difference between void necromancy and true necromancy--true necromancy in Warcraft involves imperfectly affixing a soul to its corpse, void necromancy involves Buffalo Bill'ing the corpse.

[Verdugo]

Theramore technically was a war crime for the same reasons the UN considers employing chemical weapons on the battlefield a war crime; we know from the external novels that most peoples of Azeroth view weapons of mass destruction along a similar vein as we do in real life in both moral and ethical terms, and have since the mana-bomb was introduced in The Burning Crusade and the Blight in Vanilla. Teldrassil was described as a genocide in-universe because the Horde destroyed a primarily-civilian settlement, killing a large chunk of the night elves' civilian populace in what looked to be a deliberate attempt to purge the night elves from Kalimdor. Attempts to purge an entire populace from an area are classified as genocides in common parlance, even if you wouldn't be able to win a court case with that argument.

I completely forgot how Alliance hates weapons of mass destruction.

Although its impossible for a mage to be tried for war crimes since he would just cast mass alzheimer and teleport away.

Sorta. The void elves don't so much raise the corpses from the dead as they do use the corpses as a skinsuit for lesser void creatures. That's the main difference between void necromancy and true necromancy--true necromancy in Warcraft involves imperfectly affixing a soul to its corpse, void necromancy involves Buffalo Bill'ing the corpse.

So much better.