Store is ALOT cheaper than many of the gold sinks ingame. What is the problem???

[Fynzie]

You are already paying 15 bucks each month to play the game, do you think you have a fully fledged game worth of content every 4 months ? it's not about the price, it's about milking a community that already produces a shiton of milk. Philosophy is hard indeed.

[Axeros]

You are already paying 15 bucks each month to play the game, do you think you have a fully fledged game worth of content every 4 months ? it's not about the price, it's about milking a community that already produces a shiton of milk. Philosophy is hard indeed.

Yes i do, and yet, still consider it as cheapest hobby by far....by time i spend in game per month it will worth even if they ask for 30Euro.

[Ticj]

EVERYTHING in the store is purely cosmeitc and not required to play the game. That is the big difference in why BLizzard's shop is OK and others are not. THe other make it so you actually have to buy stuff to play the game.
Everything you said is subjective opinion. However, I find things in game(pets, mounts and Tmogs) that are far superior to anything in the shop. You are spinning things to fit your narrative and nothing you say is fact.

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They have added cool looking thing in games. Ashes of A'lar is far superior to any mount in the store. There are pets that are superior to anything in the store. Heck, the mount you get for buying the deluxe version of the expansion is better than any shop mount. Everything you said is based off of how you have spun your opinion, not based in any facts

How funny that your example of a cool mount in the game is a mount which was added before microtransactions were even in the game. Also, that you dismiss what I said as an opinion, but used an opinion to justify your argument.

[Axeros]

I love Alpaca mounts, Parrot, Fox mount. Spider mount is interesting.
Tbh as i look at store mounts only warforged Nightmare and squakers looks nice for me. But still miles behind those i pointed.

[Sagenod]

You're missing the forest for the trees.

Yes your are correct, you can earn it via wow tokens exchanged with in-game currency.

It is a matter of principle. People are angry because we pay a subscription and buy an expansion every 2 years just so they can put one of the most unique transmog in a store. People who are angry view this as a step for Blizzard to inch there way to adding more unique sets attached to a paywall. Unique sets that should be in the game and not behind a pay wall.

But... but its free because you get it with a 6 month sub. That is 100% true, for now. Players who cannot afford to pay an upfront cost for a 6month sub or a future player will/do not have this "free" option available to them. This strategy hurts minorities (who do not have the privileged to splurge on a 6month sub) and new players.

Not that I'm disagreeing with you but what exactly do you mean by minorities? Not trying to perpetuate the "political" argument, just trying to understand what exactly it means in this context. Is the minority the players who can't afford the 6 month subscription model?

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Wherever it is a new store mount, charity pet or a 6 months bonus the argument "It should have been earnable ingame" Always comes up

And I am completely flabbergasted. IT IS EARNABLE INGAME IS IT NOT??? Can't you buy a WoW token and convert it into balance? A US WoW token goes for 150K gold a piece which buys literally anything in the store besides an entire expansion pack (And even at 300K gold its still very cheap). Compare that to the Brutosaur for 5 Million gold or the Spider for 2 Million gold. Hell I've used that ammount on just repairs throughout BFA Alone

What exactly is the problem again? Most people I know have that kind of money, and If you aren't the laziest person in the world like me getting it isn't that hard. And even if you're lazy, then you wouldn't have been able to earn it if it was earnable ingame anyway. Let's even talk about the new wings. You get it for subbing for 6 months. What is the problem? You literally get it for playing the game.

Active Mod Warnings in this thread:

Since we've already had a thread on this topic go pear-shaped, this is a general warning to keep it civil and constructive in this thread as well. Don't fling insults, personal barbs, or anything else not related to the actual topic.

Let's also steer clear of real-world politics and the like, no need to derail this thread with unrelated political discussion or arguments.

Special stuff used to be unlocked solely through in-game content. Earning something in the game gives a sense of accomplishment whereas buying it with real world currency typically doesn't.

Money in WoW does not equal big D. That's East Asian MMO shite so leave it there in my opinion.

Edit: At the same time, though, the people who have issues with this have no business judging those who do spend real world currency for shop items. You wouldn't expect to be judged for not having the money to afford to buy something so you certainly shouldn't be judging someone who can and does. The ideological issue makes sense but I would challenge people to ask themselves why they have said issue. Is it truly your belief that having in-game cash shop items is a negative thing, or are you simply jealous of those that can afford such expenses while you cannot? Using ideology to disguise envy is truly disgusting.

[jazen]

Everything in the shop for real life $ is attainable via game play and gold/token conversion, not sure why this is even an issue. If you've got more time than money, grind some gold. If you've got more money than time, buy some tokens. I currently happen to fall into the more money than time category, so when there's a mount/helm/pet I want, I just buy a token or 3.

[ReleaseDay]

I can't turn my wow gold into real money (without illegal/forbidden 3rd party site) so no, it never has the same value as real money.

[rrayy]

How funny that your example of a cool mount in the game is a mount which was added before microtransactions were even in the game. Also, that you dismiss what I said as an opinion, but used an opinion to justify your argument.

I took the first one that popped into my head.

What you said is an opinion. My opinion proves it to be one. You have based nothing off of facts, but an opinion crafted to fit the narrative you are running with which is what I am demostrating. Nothing more.

[lolmmofuture]

no mtx should exist in any paid game period :8

[Sinte]

Fact that you alredy giving ingame gold real life currency value shows how toxic token is to the game. No matter what you buy flash or mount its hold real life currency value whihc is insane to have in freaking video game. Imagine you buy flask. Look i just spent 50 cents on flask from what a joke.

Money in Mmo games always has real life currency value. Just because you choose to ignore it,doesnt mean it isnt there. We have been able to sell our in game currencies fbor money on third party websites since forever,before wow was even a thing.

[Kithelle]

Nobody claims they want things for free and it isnt "that simple", they are pissed off that Blizzard cheapens the experience of mounts and transmogs by putting them behind $$$ in a store when we pay a subscription fee and for new expansions already, instead of doing a simple cashgrab why not make it an interesting questline that involves achievements and ways for you to work toward it in-game as a reward instead?

What stops them from putting every transmog-set on the store in the future, tier-sets pvp-sets and everything.
"-Hey buddy you can use your subscription-time to grind out these weekly raids for the transmog-set, or buy it all today for only 39,99$ in the shop!"

Maybe thats what you'd like.

Yes they do want it for free....that is the definition of wanting something but not wanting to paying for it.

They haven't gone that far...they add a new item or two every six months and people like you blow a gasket acting like they put dozens of new sets and mounts in the store every year.

[scrappybristol]

Hot Take: Any transmogs that come from the store should not cost gold to transmog onto your character.

[Kharadin]

Because, there's a stark difference between the quality of the xmog / mounts in the store vs the ones attainable through in-game means. I mean ffs look at the Uldir raid set. There have been many otherwise really cool looking mounts added to the store, while alliance gets yet another horse mount reskin. This is why I have always been against the store. When they can make a quick buck off whales, why add anything actually cool looking into the actual game? As someone who refuses to buy store items, I am still affected here.

Statement about quality is subjective, I don't think I agree really.

And no, I don't agree. Blizzard is a business, they will always try to make the most money for the least effort, people buying from the store or not.

[Eapoe]

Yes, I am. I brought up earlier in the thread that I don't defend FFXIV's cash shop, but I noted at least they offer a robust freemium option. SWTOR's freemium option is a joke. Who the hell hides UI features behind a paywall?

If subs alone don't pay all the bills when this game brings in more than some countries' GDP, something significant is broken in the development cycle that needs to be addressed.

Again, ingame items should be achieved through ingame progress, unless the game runs on a freemium business model. WoW does not run on a freemium business model. WoW has one of the most restrictive free-play models on the MMO market today. I understand you feel a different way, but you are not going to convince me otherwise unless you can bring more to the table than, "But things cost money!" The game makes fucktons of cash. Even assuming 500k subscribers, which is a laughably low estimate on my end, that's 500kx15 per month, or let's say 500kx13 per month and again lowball it by assuming most players don't just run a monthly sub and buy in multimonth chunks. That's 6.5 million per month revenue. 6.5 millionx12 is 78 million yearly revenue just off subscriptions, this doesn't figure in booster pack sales from Hearthstone, Overwatch loot boxes, or Heroes of the Storm sales.

A game that makes 78 million a year can't keep the lights on? Then your company is failing and you need to figure out what the fuck is killing your profits.

*All figures are presented in USD, which is used to determine subscription rates in other currencies based on exchange rates as I understand it.

Feel free to correct my math here, but going off what I found on Google:
Blizzard pays $14 an hour to customer service employees. $14x8 hours=$112 a day. $112 a day x 5 days=$560 a week. $560 a week x 4 weeks=$2240 a month. $2240 a month x 12 months=$26,880 a year. That’s 1 employee.
In 2019 Acti-Blizz reported 9,200 employees. Now, I know that’s not all customer service, but safely assuming they are probably one of the lowest paid job positions, then we can take $26,880.00 a year x 9,200 employees=$247,296,000 a year on employee salary alone.
In 2012 Blizzard reported 4,700 employees. Even at that much of a reduced number employee salary alone annually cost Blizzard $126,336,000 (going by today’s salary of a customer service employee at Blizzard).

[Thage]

Feel free to correct my math here, but going off what I found on Google:
Blizzard pays $14 an hour to customer service employees. $14x8 hours=$112 a day. $112 a day x 5 days=$560 a week. $560 a week x 4 weeks=$2240 a month. $2240 a month x 12 months=$26,880 a year. That’s 1 employee.
In 2019 Acti-Blizz reported 9,200 employees. Now, I know that’s not all customer service, but safely assuming they are probably one of the lowest paid job positions, then we can take $26,880.00 a year x 9,200 employees=$247,296,000 a year on employee salary alone.
In 2012 Blizzard reported 4,700 employees. Even at that much of a reduced number employee salary alone annually cost Blizzard $126,336,000 (going by today’s salary of a customer service employee at Blizzard).

Important things to keep in mind:

What I've been able to find shows 9,200 as the employees at Activision-Blizzard as a whole, which is different from employees working at Blizzard's offices. Even going on the 2012 numbers (which may well be higher than what is current given the mass layoffs that have happened over the last few years, but it's a good number to work with for the sake of this discussion), having that many employees for a studio Blizzard's size strongly suggests personnel management needs to be significantly streamlined. That makes it no surprise Activision-Blizzard has seemingly stepped in and begun eliminating non-essential customer service and QA positions in the hundreds; a company that brings in over 78 million a year and can't even cover salaries is almost nightmarishly bloated.

Now, again, I must note, 78 million is an extreme lowball. To the tune of around 4-5 million players' worth, as I believe the subscriber count probably hovers around 4.5-6 million with most players just running the monthly sub on their credit card, since a fifteen-dollar monthly payment doesn't make many people bat an eyelid alongside things like Netflix, Hulu, Disney+, DashPass, and other monthly subscription services. My purpose in using only 500k players, and assuming everyone paid the lowest sum possible to maintain subscriptions, was twofold: to illustrate just what kind of money Blizzard pulls in sans any other revenue stream, and to outline that Blizzard is bloated and needs to significantly reorganize their staff. Ultimately, if the cash shop were removed tomorrow and every mount, pet, and now transmog set in it put ingame instead, Blizzard would still remain wildly profitable thanks to Hearthstone booster packs, Overwatch loot boxes, and WoW subscriptions/tokens/box sales.

[Xalvia]

How can you defend a cash shop for a game that has a full game cost every 2 years, a monthly subscription fee and additonal fee costs for extra services like transfers with a terrible customer service. I don't care how much you're up blizzards ass, its not okay and not many companys would get away with it.

[Eapoe]

Important things to keep in mind:

What I've been able to find shows 9,200 as the employees at Activision-Blizzard as a whole, which is different from employees working at Blizzard's offices. Even going on the 2012 numbers (which may well be higher than what is current given the mass layoffs that have happened over the last few years, but it's a good number to work with for the sake of this discussion), having that many employees for a studio Blizzard's size strongly suggests personnel management needs to be significantly streamlined. That makes it no surprise Activision-Blizzard has seemingly stepped in and begun eliminating non-essential customer service and QA positions in the hundreds; a company that brings in over 78 million a year and can't even cover salaries is almost nightmarishly bloated.

Now, again, I must note, 78 million is an extreme lowball. To the tune of around 4-5 million players' worth, as I believe the subscriber count probably hovers around 4.5-6 million with most players just running the monthly sub on their credit card, since a fifteen-dollar monthly payment doesn't make many people bat an eyelid alongside things like Netflix, Hulu, Disney+, DashPass, and other monthly subscription services. My purpose in using only 500k players, and assuming everyone paid the lowest sum possible to maintain subscriptions, was twofold: to illustrate just what kind of money Blizzard pulls in sans any other revenue stream, and to outline that Blizzard is bloated and needs to significantly reorganize their staff. Ultimately, if the cash shop were removed tomorrow and every mount, pet, and now transmog set in it put ingame instead, Blizzard would still remain wildly profitable thanks to Hearthstone booster packs, Overwatch loot boxes, and WoW subscriptions/tokens/box sales.

I will agree that the WoW model brings in substantial revenue. I can’t state profit because I don’t know how much of a profit it makes on sub fees alone.
I also lowballed my examples by stating the employees would all be in customer service. Even with that model the sub fee revenue fell 40 million short of even breaking even.
Going to a more realistic approach we also have to consider things such as developers, lead developers, supervisors (of other areas such as customer service), CEOs, and even more salary packages. Then we have to include bonus packages (most big companies have these), company trips (ranging from personal holidays disguised as work trips to binaries team building/care packages for teams of designers), ongoing training, utilities, supplies, and even things like Blizzcon.

As to your final point, yes, Blizzard could be wildly profitable from the in game purchases of their other games. I honestly don’t know how much of a profit they gain from it. The main arguments to be made are these:
1). There is nothing in the game shop that gives you player power. It is purely cosmetic.
2). All in game shop options can be earned in game with time spent earning gold and then changing that into bnet balance.
3). It is hypocritical to argue that in game cash shop transactions are okay in F2P (such as Hearthstone) games and B2P games (such as Overwatch), which could be argued that everything should be earnable in game but not okay in P2P games (such as WoW).

[Monster Hunter]

You're missing the forest for the trees.

Yes your are correct, you can earn it via wow tokens exchanged with in-game currency.

It is a matter of principle. People are angry because we pay a subscription and buy an expansion every 2 years just so they can put one of the most unique transmog in a store. People who are angry view this as a step for Blizzard to inch there way to adding more unique sets attached to a paywall. Unique sets that should be in the game and not behind a pay wall.

But... but its free because you get it with a 6 month sub. That is 100% true, for now. Players who cannot afford to pay an upfront cost for a 6month sub or a future player will/do not have this "free" option available to them. This strategy hurts minorities (who do not have the privileged to splurge on a 6month sub) and new players.

You assume that the thlng on the store would be in game if not for the store... thats not true, if not for the store those items would not exist at all

[Powerhug]

How can you defend a cash shop for a game that has a full game cost every 2 years, a monthly subscription fee and additonal fee costs for extra services like transfers with a terrible customer service. I don't care how much you're up blizzards ass, its not okay and not many companys would get away with it.

Yes, just ignore the fact that you can buy the game once, sub for 1 month and then start making gold to buy tokens which allow you to keep playing basically for free, buy every expansion with tokens, hell, buy every game on Bnet. I've bought years of subs with tokens, bought Overwatch, Diablo 3, BfA, SL, CoD BO4, MW, now Cold War. I know it's a cliche argument and overused, and many people might not agree, but doesn't mean it's invalid.

[Axeros]

How can you defend a cash shop for a game that has a full game cost every 2 years, a monthly subscription fee and additonal fee costs for extra services like transfers with a terrible customer service. I don't care how much you're up blizzards ass, its not okay and not many companys would get away with it.

How apple dare to ask money for their apps in app store when i already bought their expansive phone.
How dare my state ask me to pay for ticket to attend national team match ( any sport) / national operawhen i already paying monthly taxes.



and so on...blizzard shop issomething optional, which you dont need at all in game. As examples i gave you..you dont need those apps, Your phone works perfectly fine without them too. You dont need to attend that match/opera its not important for your life.

Get over it, if you dont like it , unsub. Thats best way you can send signal to them you dont liek soemthing