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  1. #1

    Doing more damage at low levels now

    I've been doing the headless horseman on my low level toons for experience, and I noticed that my level 10 characters especially always top the meters. Now when you are in a group with high level characters, obviously the numbers are in relation to your own level. I see low numbers, and a level 50 sees high numbers.

    But if you look at the percentage of damage done in comparison to the rest of the group, my level 10 characters can blow away level 50's. I just did it on my arcane mage and you just have to do arcane blast and you'll do like 90% of the groups damage. With level 50 characters in the group.

    Similarly I have a much easier time healing on low level characters, even though they have less spells available. The spells heal for more, and mana regenerates faster.

    I know this is just headless horseman, but I assume this being the case in dungeons from level 10-50 as well. It's obviously the way things scale in dungeons.

    And I know this is just leveling dungeons, but still, I don't think that in an MMO level 10 characters should this easily be outperforming level 50 characters. I don't think that as you gain levels and gain more abilities, your performance should become worse.

  2. #2
    Immortal Evolixe's Avatar
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    God forbid you can provide a meaningful contribution in a group with someone 40 levels higher than you

    This is the new game. The game has to scale your damage because otherwise you couldn't enter instances and groups with more than 3 levels discrepancy. Its not going to go away.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Evolixe View Post
    God forbid you can provide a meaningful contribution in a group with someone 40 levels higher than you
    I repeat. You are actually decreasing in power as you level up and gain more abilities.

    The obvious solution to this problem would be to not have level 10's group up with level 50's. They should be doing different content.

  4. #4
    Immortal Evolixe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hedren View Post
    I repeat. You are actually decreasing in power as you level up and gain more abilities.

    The obvious solution to this problem would be to not have level 10's group up with level 50's. They should be doing different content.
    No, you aren't. Go duel a level 50 and see how that goes.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Evolixe View Post
    No, you aren't. Go duel a level 50 and see how that goes.
    I'm talking about dungeons and you know that. Stop this. It's dishonest.

  6. #6
    PvP-ers just get rid of scaling, now it is time for PvE-ers to suffer

    It is ridiculous that higher levels damage is scaled down instead of lower levels scaled up

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by hedren View Post
    They should be doing different content.
    It's basically impossible with the new leveling system.

    And I don't really find any problem with power discrepancies like that, considering that leveling isn't important anymore.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnarohk View Post
    It's basically impossible with the new leveling system.
    That's the problem with the new system.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnarohk View Post
    And I don't really find any problem with power discrepancies like that, considering that leveling isn't important anymore.
    Then why even have it?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by hedren View Post
    I repeat. You are actually decreasing in power as you level up and gain more abilities.

    The obvious solution to this problem would be to not have level 10's group up with level 50's. They should be doing different content.
    scaling means you grouping is faster and you can do content with anyone of any level, if you just group with your own level then chances are you may not even find ppl to do the content with, how effective your char is doesnt matter until you doing meaninful content at max level anyway.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by hedren View Post
    I'm talking about dungeons and you know that. Stop this. It's dishonest.
    whats dishonest is your insistence that a lvl 10 scaling to 50 is somehow better. It isnt. You have no abilities, no talents, and the mobs at lvl 10 are scaled down horribly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  11. #11
    Immortal Evolixe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hedren View Post
    Then why even have it?
    So that everyone levelling can play together maybe? You know, for compatibility and fun?


    You're falling over something really stupid, your character is still getting stronger. Just not necessarily versus lower level players in PvE.
    Its relative strength, not actual strength. Its otherwise completely irrelevant to your personal experience.

    You wont be having to compete with low level characters at 60, its just a "during levelling" thing.

  12. #12
    You're telling others to stop being dishonest but I feel like -caring- about who gets to have the largest epeen in a leveling dungeon is the most dishonest thing here.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by hedren View Post
    I'm talking about dungeons and you know that. Stop this. It's dishonest.
    It isn't dishonest, your power inside of a dungeon scales.....they use a scaling algorithm. Your power does increase per level, level that arcane mage all the way through and youll still be on top. I have had 50's with good gear in my group out damaging me. Everything scales. If you duel a 50 outside of those dungeons the scaling goes away and in raids that are current it is the same thing. Go into a raid right now and tell me if you see the same power level. No you wouldn't. It is common sense.
    Insanity is repeating the same action and expecting different results. *Cough, Blizzard!, COUGH*

  14. #14
    Herald of the Titans KOUNTERPARTS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by holywhiskers View Post
    You're telling others to stop being dishonest but I feel like -caring- about who gets to have the largest epeen in a leveling dungeon is the most dishonest thing here.

    It's a dishonest thread. To bait out replies and flaming. That was the point.


    Ban evading burner account #9982435908 strikes again!


    I await the next one.

  15. #15
    Stood in the Fire Frinata's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hedren View Post
    I'm talking about dungeons and you know that. Stop this. It's dishonest.
    So the same could be said to you. You are implying that you decrease in power as you level up, while in dungeons.

    Do you have your scrolling battle text turned off? Because if we take your statement at it's word, you're already lying. As you level up, taking gear out of the equation for this, you do more damage because you gain more base stats, abilities and passives, talents, the like. You increase in power. If you want to see this in action, take a level 10 Arcane Mage, do a few blasts, then come back at level 30, and you'll visibly see you have increased in power.

    As for your statement about them doing the most damage in a dungeon group, while that does seem a bit silly, it's to help them scale better while in a LEVELING dungeon. It's how the scaling system works, for you the low level, you're doing the expected damage of your level, to a mob you are expected to face, and same for the level 50s and 40s in your group, they are (we'll assume the best here) doing what is expected of them to a mob of their level range as well. Without this kind of scaling, having a low level in your group would be a detriment, and lead to a scenario where high level characters would feel inclined to boot the low level one.

    This is how it needs to be for the system to work. It's not bad. You INCREASE in power as you level up. Stop misleading people.

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  16. #16
    Elemental Lord GreenJesus's Avatar
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    I wonder if it's because of the scaling of gear while leveling. Maybe lower levels aren't scaled by gear as much and have a higher base damage while higher levels have a lower % of base damage and scale more on item level? idk Just a guess.

    Although I was playing my end of Legion warrior in a wrath dungeon and was crushing everyone else. That might just be fury warrior though.

  17. #17
    dungeon level scaling scales. news at 11

  18. #18
    Banned Lazuli's Avatar
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    I just want to point out that literally every other MMO has nailed scaling, since many years ago, and the dumbfucking retards at Blizz still can't LOL.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by oblakoff View Post
    PvP-ers just get rid of scaling, now it is time for PvE-ers to suffer

    It is ridiculous that higher levels damage is scaled down instead of lower levels scaled up
    this has existed ever since the scaling dungeon content existed,you arent getting weaker as you level,it just has a weird interaction when your lvling vs scaled mobs,a lvl 10 sees much less hp than a 50 does on those mobs,so its not actualy doing more dmg,either way when everyone is max lvl this doesnt matter,maybe in outdoor as those mobs also scale with your ilvl

  20. #20
    Fluffy Kitten GothamCity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hedren View Post
    I've been doing the headless horseman on my low level toons for experience, and I noticed that my level 10 characters especially always top the meters. Now when you are in a group with high level characters, obviously the numbers are in relation to your own level. I see low numbers, and a level 50 sees high numbers.
    Right, numbers are in relation to your character. There have been documented issues with meters and logs not really getting it right when scaling players. The level 10 will show one set of logs and the level 50 a different, and each will have a different person on 'top'.

    Quote Originally Posted by hedren
    But if you look at the percentage of damage done in comparison to the rest of the group, my level 10 characters can blow away level 50's. I just did it on my arcane mage and you just have to do arcane blast and you'll do like 90% of the groups damage. With level 50 characters in the group.
    This is possible due to two features that rarely interact but you might be seeing. Very low level characters have built in extra regeneration, power, et cetera, to help ease new players in to the game. It's been this way since Classic, and Blizzard has only made it more noticeable overtime. Max level characters tend to 'power down' as they approach max level, which gives them the most room to grow at max level since they need to deal several raid/pvp tiers of epic loot drops. This means that a level 10 player is way way stronger than a level 10 mob and a level 50 player is weaker than a level 50 mob.

    Quote Originally Posted by hedren
    Similarly I have a much easier time healing on low level characters, even though they have less spells available. The spells heal for more, and mana regenerates faster.
    Touched on above, but this is intended to help players ease into the game, especially new healers.

    Quote Originally Posted by hedren
    I know this is just headless horseman, but I assume this being the case in dungeons from level 10-50 as well. It's obviously the way things scale in dungeons.
    Definitely not the case, I've leveled quite a bit so far and the few times I've been 'carried' by a geared 50 they definitely destroyed everyone on the meters. I would venture that this effect you're seeing would wear off once you're around level 15-20, and the max level is in basic end-game gear.

    Quote Originally Posted by hedren
    And I know this is just leveling dungeons, but still, I don't think that in an MMO level 10 characters should this easily be outperforming level 50 characters. I don't think that as you gain levels and gain more abilities, your performance should become worse.
    That's pretty philosophical and kind of a silly point to make. It's all relative. Your level 10 couldn't actually outperform the level 50 version of the mob that the level 50 is attacking, it's just due to the underlying scaling mechanics that make it look like you are. You're essentially whining about a convergence of fates that will almost never happen again. You have a bunch of level 10s to notice this on because they just dropped the new leveling system, Exile's Reach, squish, etc. There's a bunch of undergeared 50s because of boosts, returners, levelers, etc.

    Your performance never gets worse in WoW as you, you're complaining about scaling and opening up the ability for players to play together. Headless Horseman takes a few minutes at most, and it is not at all impacted by a level 10 mage doing 35% of the dps instead of 25% of the dps. What actually happens is the enemies scale up to meet you at your new power level and you didn't gain enough power to be stronger than you were relative to before.

    If this was an issue that could or would actually occur with any semblance of regularity, or if addons were something that any large portion of the community used, I'd maybe consider you having a point. But since neither are true I'm inclined to think that this is actually the result of a level 10 mage beating your freshly boosted level 50.

    The vast majority of the time, the game pushes players of the same level together. At end-game you definitely only play with other max-level players. While leveling, the dungeon queues try to push you with people around your level, and if the queue times take a while it will cast a wider 'net' but still try to keep the range of levels as tight as possible. The worst you'll find is the occasional person who convinced their friend to carry them through a dungeon queue, definitely not common.
    Last edited by GothamCity; 2020-10-21 at 05:45 PM.
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