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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Qnubi View Post
    I can confirm the observations from OP in leveling dungeons as well. In fact, I talked to a group of level 10 boosters that sell boost to level higher level characters through classic dungeons. They lock their level to 10, then you get carried through the dungeon. I was on my level 48 warlock and the two level 10s were both doing 3-4k DPS each, easily outdpsing everyone. I have leveled 1-50 Warlock, 30-50 Paladin and 40-50 druid. The lower level characters are basically always #1 DPS if they know what they are doing (which is not alot since you have 2-3 buttons to press). If the entire group is 10-15ish then it seems to scale normally. The problem is when you pair level 10s with 40+ characters, the game scales in favor of the low levels and gives absurd DPS.
    Thank you. That's exactly what I'm trying to say here.

    I assume it has something to do with certain abilties being more powerful at lower levels to make it easier for low level players. Like heals at low levels often heal you completely full. My level 1 shaman was one-hitting things with lightning bolt. You grow in level and it becomes less powerful. I think we all have seen that when leveling up characters. It's like mana and health regeneration being faster at lower levels.

  2. #42
    I don't know if they've changed arcane mages at lower levels at all since 8.3, but my experience leveling my mechagnome mage as arcane during 8.3 was basically one- or twoshotting everything and everyone both in PvE and PvP just by spamming arcane blast.

    If arcane mage works the same at lower levels in 9.0, literally nobody has the chance to compete except other low level arcane mages.
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  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Unlimited Power View Post
    If arcane mage works the same at lower levels in 9.0, literally nobody has the chance to compete except other low level arcane mages.
    That kind of scaling doesn't apply to relevant forms of content. It's literally only a thing in irrelevant transitional content like leveling dungeons etc. Nobody cares about performance in those.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Frinata View Post
    As you level up, taking gear out of the equation for this, you do more damage because you gain more base stats, abilities and passives, talents, the like. You increase in power. If you want to see this in action, take a level 10 Arcane Mage, do a few blasts, then come back at level 30, and you'll visibly see you have increased in power.
    The numbers increase, but the power in relation to the mobs you're fighting decreases, because mobs level up with you.

    You attack a mob at level 10 and you deal 50% of his health in damage.

    You do the same at level 30, and the same attack only deals 10% of his health in damage.

    The numbers are just an example, I don't know what the exact numbers would be like, but you can't just say, you're numbers are higher, you are stronger now, because the mobs also "become stronger". And disproportionately to you.

  5. #45
    I get that it doesn't make sense but it's really a non-issue. Leveling dungeons shouldn't matter on who does more because of the imperfect scaling. I was doing some leveling dungeons with IRL friends, we know how to play the class yet a level 14 resto druid was crushing it in dps with wrath spams. What did that mean to us? Faster dungeons so I'll take it.

    If you feel insecure because some lower leveled players out damage you due to the scaling, then that's just a you-problem.
    The wise wolf who's pride is her wisdom isn't so sharp as drunk.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    That kind of scaling doesn't apply to relevant forms of content. It's literally only a thing in irrelevant transitional content like leveling dungeons etc. Nobody cares about performance in those.
    I very much care about contributing to a group when I'm doing dungeons leveling up. If my damage is lower than that of low level characters, just because I am higher level than them, then what use am I to the group? You know if your performance is really bad, you can end up getting kicked from a dungeon.

    That aside, its very principal is just wrong. You level up, you become stronger. You gain new abilities, you become stronger. Becoming weaker defeats the point of leveling up.

    Even outside of dungeons that can be felt, as mobs in the world scale with you. Players feel that and it makes the game less fun.

    When I leveled my arcane mage, he was the bomb in lower levels and close to max level I had trouble fighting more than one mob at a time.

  7. #47
    I kinda agree, but it's not that big problem. It's just dungeons that no one cares about. You just join it, do it ASAP and leave. It's not competitive on any level.

    It's better that way than other.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by hedren View Post
    I've been doing the headless horseman on my low level toons for experience, and I noticed that my level 10 characters especially always top the meters. Now when you are in a group with high level characters, obviously the numbers are in relation to your own level. I see low numbers, and a level 50 sees high numbers.

    But if you look at the percentage of damage done in comparison to the rest of the group, my level 10 characters can blow away level 50's. I just did it on my arcane mage and you just have to do arcane blast and you'll do like 90% of the groups damage. With level 50 characters in the group.

    Similarly I have a much easier time healing on low level characters, even though they have less spells available. The spells heal for more, and mana regenerates faster.

    I know this is just headless horseman, but I assume this being the case in dungeons from level 10-50 as well. It's obviously the way things scale in dungeons.

    And I know this is just leveling dungeons, but still, I don't think that in an MMO level 10 characters should this easily be outperforming level 50 characters. I don't think that as you gain levels and gain more abilities, your performance should become worse.
    oh my god who cares?

    Dungeons are completed in time, just turn off damage meters, they're toxic and MEANINGLESS for people levelling.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by kail View Post
    I get that it doesn't make sense but it's really a non-issue. Leveling dungeons shouldn't matter on who does more because of the imperfect scaling. I was doing some leveling dungeons with IRL friends, we know how to play the class yet a level 14 resto druid was crushing it in dps with wrath spams. What did that mean to us? Faster dungeons so I'll take it.

    If you feel insecure because some lower leveled players out damage you due to the scaling, then that's just a you-problem.
    Nobody wants to be the guy in the group that isn't performing as well as the others. People will think you're not fully focused on the game and it makes the experience worse for everyone. Have you never had players calling somebody out for low damage and even kicking them? Should I write them a paragraph about how scaling works? Being bottom of the meters just doesn't feel good. Performance matters. No matter what content. And being carried through content doesn't feel good. Especially when it's you that should be the one carrying the other players.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Protean View Post
    oh my god who cares?

    Dungeons are completed in time, just turn off damage meters, they're toxic and MEANINGLESS for people levelling.
    No, they're not. They're telling you if you are doing things right or not. If you wanna try out a new skill and you wanna know if it is worth taking, and whether it increases your performance or not, then the only thing you can do is look to your damage to see if it's higher than before or not.

  10. #50
    I think that the scaling down at lower levels is all over the place, which to be honest, is kind of to be expected considering the massive changes that the level squish enacted. I expect that Blizzard will do some fine tuning, but I highly doubt that it's a massive priority considering how absurdly fast you get to max level now.

    But take a look at dungeons. They are tuned up in difficulty considerably when compared to before. mobs hit a lot harder and have considerably more health relative to what they had before.

    Level up a Shaman and see the amount of damage you do in Resto vs the amount of damage you do as Ele. It only evens out probably when Ele gets EQ at level 38. Before that, there is almost no reason to play Ele over Resto.

    Where dungeon mobs seem to be tuned a lot harder, open world group quests seem to be tuned a lot easier, to the point that quests labeled as 3 person quests are utterly faceroll.

    The numbers while leveling are out of whack. Blizzard clearly spent more time tuning at the max level, which makes sense.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    I think that the scaling down at lower levels is all over the place, which to be honest, is kind of to be expected considering the massive changes that the level squish enacted. I expect that Blizzard will do some fine tuning, but I highly doubt that it's a massive priority considering how absurdly fast you get to max level now.
    They should just set us back to level 1 then and make the new max level 10. If level 1-50 is so irrelevant. Or just get rid of levels.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    I kinda agree, but it's not that big problem. It's just dungeons that no one cares about. You just join it, do it ASAP and leave. It's not competitive on any level.

    It's better that way than other.
    It's not about competition. It's an RPG and I shouldn't invest time to make myself weaker.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by hedren View Post
    I repeat. You are actually decreasing in power as you level up and gain more abilities.

    The obvious solution to this problem would be to not have level 10's group up with level 50's. They should be doing different content.
    You're not "decreasing in power". it's just the way the scaling works to make the seasonal content available to everyone.
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    Trust me.

    Zyky is better than you.

  13. #53
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hedren View Post
    I repeat. You are actually decreasing in power as you level up and gain more abilities.

    The obvious solution to this problem would be to not have level 10's group up with level 50's. They should be doing different content.
    Yeah...I found that too. Insane damage and one shotting mobs at levels 1-10. Good fun.

    But I don't see it as a "problem". The game hooks you at early levels with being a bit overpowered and gets "harder" as you progress. As it should. Mythic raids say hello.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by hedren View Post
    Nobody wants to be the guy in the group that isn't performing as well as the others. People will think you're not fully focused on the game and it makes the experience worse for everyone. Have you never had players calling somebody out for low damage and even kicking them? Should I write them a paragraph about how scaling works? Being bottom of the meters just doesn't feel good. Performance matters. No matter what content. And being carried through content doesn't feel good. Especially when it's you that should be the one carrying the other players.
    If I saw someone afk for long periods of time, I'd call them out and probably initiate a vote kick. If someone isn't doing the same damage as another, but the dps meter shows there's some activity then there's not much else to say outside of them being out-scaled. I did my rotations as correct as I could in leveling dungeons, I would top meters or get topped by others. It makes no difference because I'm doing those dungeons to level up, not progress some guild content (i.e. raids). I hope everyone does their part to complete the dungeon ASAP but I can only vouch I'm my part.

    It doesn't take a paragraph to explain to others how scaling works. It's just scaling. If you feel superior/inferior to others in leveling dungeons, then you have my condolences.
    The wise wolf who's pride is her wisdom isn't so sharp as drunk.

  15. #55
    I've noticed the same thing. It just seems like a generally minor skew in scaling that's only really noticeable when there's a very big difference between your level and someone else's. When I'm out in the world and just playing the game on my own and getting leveling, I'm definitely not getting weaker compared to everything else. I've generally been killing things at about the same clip back when I was level 10 as I am now at level 42 on the character I'm currently working on. It's felt really smooth.

    It's not really a big deal, imo. It's definitely a little bit wonky to look at, but it's really not game-breaking.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by kail View Post
    If I saw someone afk for long periods of time
    And if the numbers are incredibly low you might also deduct from that, that the person is afk or half-assing things. But in reality it could be a scaling issue. I am not exaggerating when I am saying that I have had groups where as a level 10 arcane mage I have done 90% of the damage, even with level 50's in the group. It is not a controversial statement to say that that is just wrong.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    You're not "decreasing in power". it's just the way the scaling works to make the seasonal content available to everyone.
    Yeah I'm not decreasing in power. My power is increasing with a level up. It's just too bad that everything around me is increasing more in power than I am.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Yeah...I found that too. Insane damage and one shotting mobs at levels 1-10. Good fun.

    But I don't see it as a "problem". The game hooks you at early levels with being a bit overpowered and gets "harder" as you progress. As it should. Mythic raids say hello.
    It's not a problem you're doing insane damage at lower levels. Normally as you level up, you'd go to different zones, and mobs there are stronger, so eventually your power just becomes appropriate. It makes sense, because you have increased in level and gone to a different zone with different mobs, because your level is now high enough to take them on.

    The problem comes with content scaling. Because you might be leveling in let's say Ashenvale at level 20 and level up to 25, and at 25, the mobs you are facing are still the same mobs. Just scaled in level. They leveled up with you. It's not different content. It's the same content. Now if they level up in a way where things scale perfectly so that you still are as powerful against them as before, the worst thing that would mean is that you haven't increased in power. That's already bad enough in an MMO. But the reality is that you are actually becoming less powerful as you level up.

    Anyway I've repeated this over and over and there are people in here who understand it, so I won't repeat myself again.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by hedren View Post
    Yeah I'm not decreasing in power. My power is increasing with a level up. It's just too bad that everything around me is increasing more in power than I am.
    Every single game that has a scaling feature functions the same exact way. From WoW to Borderlands, naturally when you hit max level the monsters are significantly harder because the basis is to go and gather gear because you will scale significantly stronger while they barely scale at all. You're making a mountain out of an anthill. There's significantly larger problems with WoW than how the scaling functions.
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Trust me.

    Zyky is better than you.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by hedren View Post
    Yeah I'm not decreasing in power. My power is increasing with a level up. It's just too bad that everything around me is increasing more in power than I am.
    Sorry, are you saying you DON'T want to fight stronger monsters as you get stronger?

    How's that supposed to work, exactly? Do you want to feel like you can never beat anything at all at lower levels? Or do you want to absolutely destroy everything with zero difficulty at higher levels? Because that's what would happen if enemies always stayed the same, and you simply got stronger and stronger.

    There's a REASON they added scaling - so you don't feel underpowered at low levels, and don't feel overpowered at higher levels. And at endgame, it's all different anyway.

  19. #59
    turn off your damage meter during leveling..problem solved

  20. #60
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hedren View Post

    The problem comes with content scaling. Because you might be leveling in let's say Ashenvale at level 20 and level up to 25, and at 25, the mobs you are facing are still the same mobs. Just scaled in level. They leveled up with you. It's not different content. It's the same content. Now if they level up in a way where things scale perfectly so that you still are as powerful against them as before, the worst thing that would mean is that you haven't increased in power. That's already bad enough in an MMO. But the reality is that you are actually becoming less powerful as you level up.

    Anyway I've repeated this over and over and there are people in here who understand it, so I won't repeat myself again.
    Oh, I get it. In fact it has been a topic here ever since Blizzard added mob scaling. Like at 120 you were suddenly weaker than at 119.

    I just don't see it as a "problem". I see it like I described it. You want to draw people into your game early on and make it easy. If the game was insanely hard at the start and easier as you level up and become more powerful, it would just scare ppl away.

    But like you..I am just repeating myself. It is levelling. It is piss easy any which way....and over in under 24 hrs. And no mob hardly ever kills you.

    Or to sum it up:

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    You're making a mountain out of an anthill.

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