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  1. #81
    Well, at least getting a character for a carry run is easy now. Just make an arcane mage, get to level 10 and lock the exp. Spam arcane explosion and boost some higher level characters by doing 10 times the damage of your other groupmates

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterymask View Post
    I think the issue is more how the damage meter is reading...
    to the meter...you are fighting a level 45 boss and you're doing the appropriate amount of damage...
    the lower level sees a boss with maybe 3000 health but you see a boss with 300,000
    if the low level gets some good crits (say full heirloom gear where the stats do scale quite a bit better) he's going to do a lot better in a percentage wise...lets say 3 frost bolts dropped him down 15% which is about 450 damage
    You on the other hand does the same thing just a little off and you do 10% of his health which is 3000 damage.

    to YOUR the meter the low level just did 4500 damage and you did 3000
    meanwhile the other guys meter sees you doing 300 damage and him doing 450..

    oh no you are definitely stronger you can easily one shot his boss but he scaled a bit better and stats are wonky so it APPEARS he did more.
    Your numbers might be a bit off, but you are correct. Its 100% about how each individuals damage meter calculated the damage. Again, a new batch of individuals freak the fuck out every time new scaled content comes out. One by one they slowly start to understand what is actually happening, and move on. Or, 1 by 1 they start to appreciate how entirely unimportant it is.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnarohk View Post
    It's basically impossible with the new leveling system.

    And I don't really find any problem with power discrepancies like that, considering that leveling isn't important anymore.
    What? Leveling is the true end game and meta of wow. Gear comes and goes. Alts last forever.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    whats dishonest is your insistence that a lvl 10 scaling to 50 is somehow better. It isnt. You have no abilities, no talents, and the mobs at lvl 10 are scaled down horribly.
    It is? The percentage damage you do is way higher

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Synical123 View Post
    It is? The percentage damage you do is way higher
    Again, this is NOT what is happening. I cant believe after all these years this is still confusing for so many people.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterymask View Post
    I think the issue is more how the damage meter is reading...
    to the meter...you are fighting a level 45 boss and you're doing the appropriate amount of damage...
    the lower level sees a boss with maybe 3000 health but you see a boss with 300,000
    if the low level gets some good crits (say full heirloom gear where the stats do scale quite a bit better) he's going to do a lot better in a percentage wise...lets say 3 frost bolts dropped him down 15% which is about 450 damage
    You on the other hand does the same thing just a little off and you do 10% of his health which is 3000 damage.

    to YOUR the meter the low level just did 4500 damage and you did 3000
    meanwhile the other guys meter sees you doing 300 damage and him doing 450..

    oh no you are definitely stronger you can easily one shot his boss but he scaled a bit better and stats are wonky so it APPEARS he did more.
    He did do more. Sure the numbers on your screen look bigger, but that boss lost more HP% to the lowbie than he did the high character, and the HP% is what matters. A level 10 in heirlooms can go into a dungeon & hold their own against a dungeon mob or two, while a freshly dinged level 50 will get absolutely spanked unless they can kite/CC indefinitely.

    It's just a case of expected gear vs equipped gear at level 10 & level 50. Level 10s cannot be balanced under the assumption that everyone has BoAs because they don't, while level 50s will be balanced around a full set of gear quest gear & some decent blue items (for normal dungeons). Someone in BoAs is far above the benchmark power level at level 10 than an average quest geared higher level character is.

    (For what it's worth, this doesn't bother me I just think the OP is getting a lot of unwarranted hate).

  7. #87
    Immortal Evolixe's Avatar
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    This isn't hate, we just have vastly different opinions on how the levelling experience should be shaped.

    I, and with me I believe the vast majority of people support world scaling and the ability to level (almost) anywhere with (almost) anyone of (almost) any level.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by hedren View Post
    And yet in Shadowlands they are going back to a fixed order for the zones.
    Stop with the bad faith arguing please. The reason they did is entirely separate to your contention. As someone else pointed out, it's only once that you do them in order. So why even bring this up?

  9. #89
    Scarab Lord Razorice's Avatar
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    Yeah, It doesn't feel good when a Level 10 beats a level 50, or even 30-40.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by hedren View Post
    I'm talking about dungeons and you know that. Stop this. It's dishonest.
    If you're content to flex on level 50s during seasonal bosses and leveling content, I think you should enjoy the power boost. You'll still have to reach a higher level to participate in ranked/endgame content.
    Quote Originally Posted by fizzbob View Post
    you're not supposed to kill someone unless they kill you first. it's common sense.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Evolixe View Post
    This isn't hate, we just have vastly different opinions on how the levelling experience should be shaped.

    I, and with me I believe the vast majority of people support world scaling and the ability to level (almost) anywhere with (almost) anyone of (almost) any level.
    Oh I'm with you on that, leveling anywhere you want is awesome, & having pretty much all content available to you at any time is amazing. I really enjoy 9.0 leveling, & my only real issue with it is you don't unlock flying until towards the end, but meh, I knew it was coming & planned ahead on that anyway.

    But the OP is right about geared low levels doing more effective damage than non-geared high levels against identical targets. Everyone here has experienced it themselves at least once. Lowbie Moonkins in BoAs could pull half a zone & watch them die to just Moonfire, while high level characters without dungeon/raid gear would likely die pulling the same insanely high number of mobs.

    Does it feel weird? In dungeon content, absolutely, but it's a small price to pay all things considered.

    Edit: Here's a simple test anyone can run. Take a freshly dinged character, use one ability, & compare that one ability against a level 10 of the same spec with BoAs. I used the fish just outside of Dazar'alor, because I'm lazy & it's easy to get to.

    First, my freshly dinged (yesterday) level 50 Shaman:

    4 Flame Shock casts, 52 hits, with an average hit of 39, just over 1% of the enemies max health (3.7k) per tick.

    Second, my freshly created level 10 Shaman with BoA gear:

    1 Flame Shock cast, 11 hits, with an average hit of 5, 5% of the enemies max health.

    Things to note: The low level character had just 1 crit compared to the 17 of the max level character, so if anything, this is biased against the lowbie. Both are specced elemental, neither character has any gems/enchants.

    Who did more DPS to the mob? The level 50. Who did more effective DPS to the mob? The level 10, by some considerable distance.

    It works exactly the same way in dungeons.
    Last edited by Toybox; 2020-10-22 at 01:06 AM.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Again, this is NOT what is happening. I cant believe after all these years this is still confusing for so many people.
    After all these years what are you talking about I have never played in scaled content lol. Also refer to this guys post in order to become educated

    Quote Originally Posted by Toybox View Post
    Oh I'm with you on that, leveling anywhere you want is awesome, & having pretty much all content available to you at any time is amazing. I really enjoy 9.0 leveling, & my only real issue with it is you don't unlock flying until towards the end, but meh, I knew it was coming & planned ahead on that anyway.

    But the OP is right about geared low levels doing more effective damage than non-geared high levels against identical targets. Everyone here has experienced it themselves at least once. Lowbie Moonkins in BoAs could pull half a zone & watch them die to just Moonfire, while high level characters without dungeon/raid gear would likely die pulling the same insanely high number of mobs.

    Does it feel weird? In dungeon content, absolutely, but it's a small price to pay all things considered.

    Edit: Here's a simple test anyone can run. Take a freshly dinged character, use one ability, & compare that one ability against a level 10 of the same spec with BoAs. I used the fish just outside of Dazar'alor, because I'm lazy & it's easy to get to.

    First, my freshly dinged (yesterday) level 50 Shaman:

    4 Flame Shock casts, 52 hits, with an average hit of 39, just over 1% of the enemies max health (3.7k) per tick.

    Second, my freshly created level 10 Shaman with BoA gear:

    1 Flame Shock cast, 11 hits, with an average hit of 5, 5% of the enemies max health.

    Things to note: The low level character had just 1 crit compared to the 17 of the max level character, so if anything, this is biased against the lowbie. Both are specced elemental, neither character has any gems/enchants.

    Who did more DPS to the mob? The level 50. Who did more effective DPS to the mob? The level 10, by some considerable distance.

    It works exactly the same way in dungeons.
    Last edited by Synical123; 2020-10-22 at 01:42 AM.

  13. #93
    I can't even see why this is worth caring about. Who actually cares? Why does this even matter? You're doing co-operative content.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Synical123 View Post
    After all these years what are you talking about I have never played in scaled content lol. Also refer to this guys post in order to become educated
    You have never done time walking? Or any of the previous years special events?

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Henako View Post
    I can't even see why this is worth caring about. Who actually cares? Why does this even matter? You're doing co-operative content.
    Depends if you view WoW as more of an MMO or an RPG, I guess. As someone that views it as an MMO, I don't care if people much lower than level than me can potentially carry me through dungeons - Hell, bring it on I'm not too shy to get a free dungeon boost. From an RPG POV, however, spending 10 hours leveling to end up struggling against the exact same mob you previously two-shot makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

    Still, it's just a weird byproduct of an otherwise overly positive system.

    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    You have never done time walking? Or any of the previous years special events?
    Timewalking squishes everyone to the same item level, where as random dungeons don't. A level 10 in BoAs is effectively much better geared than a level 50 in blues, because the average gearing point for the level 10 is set a lot lower.
    Last edited by Toybox; 2020-10-22 at 02:01 AM.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Toybox View Post
    Depends if you view WoW as more of an MMO or an RPG, I guess. As someone that views it as an MMO, I don't care if people much lower than level than me can potentially carry me through dungeons - Hell, bring it on I'm not too shy to get a free dungeon boost. From an RPG POV, however, spending 10 hours leveling to end up struggling against the exact same mob you previously two-shot makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

    Still, it's just a weird byproduct of an otherwise overly positive system.
    This is a fair perspective. Maybe my viewpoint is skewed because I've played the game for so long. The system is an absolute huge positive in my opinion. I just don't have it in me to care.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    You have never done time walking? Or any of the previous years special events?
    That's literally not the same thing. That's everyone being squished to one level and having your damage changed to match the mobs health while having all your gear also being squished to a certain level. This acts the exact opposite way. The mobs health is squished to match your level. So my mind blast on my 50 might do .5% of the mobs health while on my level 10 it does 5%.

    Just look above. There is nothing to argue here, the op is right.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Henako View Post
    This is a fair perspective. Maybe my viewpoint is skewed because I've played the game for so long. The system is an absolute huge positive in my opinion. I just don't have it in me to care.
    Same, I think the system is great. I'm just sticking up for the OP because everyone is calling him an idiot for stating how the system works & disagreeing with it from an RPG player POV.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Henako View Post
    This is a fair perspective. Maybe my viewpoint is skewed because I've played the game for so long. The system is an absolute huge positive in my opinion. I just don't have it in me to care.
    Well you cared enough to call someone dumb for being correct, so you could at least care enough to admit you were wrong.

  20. #100
    Its because your spells are balanced to kill the same target at the same time regardless of level.
    So when you have one spell its very easy to top the meters.
    When you have a lot, its easy to make mistakes and lose theoretical damage.

    But then you get essences and max level stuff and that's all out the window.
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