Page 6 of 14 FirstFirst ...
4
5
6
7
8
... LastLast
  1. #101
    Everyone here disagreeing with the op obviously had no clue. Go into a dungeon as a level 10 resto shaman with 4 level 50s and watch as your lightning bolt chunks the boss significantly more than the 50s damage abilities. Feel free to use an actual damage meter addon to help prove you wrong. The op is 100% correct. This is so stupidly obvious that the lower level you are, the more % of damage you contribute

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Again, this is NOT what is happening. I cant believe after all these years this is still confusing for so many people.
    Actually look at a simple meter addon. Better yet, watch as your 1 cast takes off a significant amount of health % compared to the higher levels

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by hedren View Post
    And if the numbers are incredibly low you might also deduct from that, that the person is afk or half-assing things. But in reality it could be a scaling issue. I am not exaggerating when I am saying that I have had groups where as a level 10 arcane mage I have done 90% of the damage, even with level 50's in the group. It is not a controversial statement to say that that is just wrong.
    And anyone that can even monitor dps can easily hover over someone who is low and see if they're even casting anything. Easy.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainyhealz View Post
    Everyone here disagreeing with the op obviously had no clue. Go into a dungeon as a level 10 resto shaman with 4 level 50s and watch as your lightning bolt chunks the boss significantly more than the 50s damage abilities. Feel free to use an actual damage meter addon to help prove you wrong. The op is 100% correct. This is so stupidly obvious that the lower level you are, the more % of damage you contribute.
    Anyone who leveled and did dungeons could clearly see the scaling is off. The real question is, what's the problem? Level 11's making the dungeon go faster is a bad thing?
    The wise wolf who's pride is her wisdom isn't so sharp as drunk.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by kail View Post
    And anyone that can even monitor dps can easily hover over someone who is low and see if they're even casting anything. Easy.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Anyone who leveled and did dungeons could clearly see the scaling is off. The real question is, what's the problem? Level 11's making the dungeon go faster is a bad thing?
    Yeah I don’t think there is a problem tbh. Except there are some specs that are absolutely broken. Try to heal with attonement as a disc, it’s horrible. Then go hit something in the face with a holy pally. You’ll literally top the charts

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    That's silly, though, because then you force everyone into a fixed progression path; or, at the very least, strongly limit where they can go at what time. What about all the people who don't like going to some zones? What about zones in unfortunate brackets that nobody goes to because they don't match the progression curve? And so on.

    There is a REASON they introduced global scaling: it solves more problems than it creates, and pleases more people than it pisses off.

    If you don't enjoy it, that's unfortunate. There's other things I don't enjoy that they've put in, too. But I'm not alone in the world, and enough other people like something I dislike for me to just, well, have to suck it up or move on to another game.
    How are you so sure that it pleases more people than it pisses off? It's new. It's better to just stick to your own opinion... say why you like it. Otherwise your post just sounds like you're saying, "well you're wrong, and everyone agrees with me".

  5. #105
    I fail to see why this is even an issue, you go from 10 to 50 in a matter of a few hours anyway at which point the lower levels stop doing more dmg in dungeons than the higher levels. The way I see it is that bringing a low level with an incomplete set of abilities at least provides more damage. Win-Win?

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Synical123 View Post
    Yeah I don’t think there is a problem tbh. Except there are some specs that are absolutely broken. Try to heal with attonement as a disc, it’s horrible. Then go hit something in the face with a holy pally. You’ll literally top the charts
    I'd prefer they improve the specs that scaled terribly instead of lowing those doing busted damage. The main goal of leveling a character is to get it to level cap asap. The sooner the better and if level 10s are carrying 49s, so be it. Both are on the same road to 50+.
    The wise wolf who's pride is her wisdom isn't so sharp as drunk.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Hey There Guys its Metro View Post
    Its because your spells are balanced to kill the same target at the same time regardless of level.
    So when you have one spell its very easy to top the meters.
    When you have a lot, its easy to make mistakes and lose theoretical damage.
    That post isnt about mistakes in rotation.

    Take lvl 10 and lvl 50, spam one skill on the same mob till it dies. lvl 10 will kill mob in 1-2 casts, lvl 50 needs 7-8 casts of the same skill. Relative power of lvl 10 is much greater thah lvl 50. Blizz needs to fix scaling here to at least keep the same relative power, or even better to make lvl 10 kill the same mob with 4-5 casts and lvl 50 with 2-3 casts. Not much difference, but players will feel they become a little stronger while leveling.

    Of course we will not take things like content access, just for relative power in the same content for different lvls.

  8. #108
    Immortal Evolixe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    In the Shadows
    Posts
    7,263
    Quote Originally Posted by iinverse View Post
    That post isnt about mistakes in rotation.

    Take lvl 10 and lvl 50, spam one skill on the same mob till it dies. lvl 10 will kill mob in 1-2 casts, lvl 50 needs 7-8 casts of the same skill. Relative power of lvl 10 is much greater thah lvl 50. Blizz needs to fix scaling here to at least keep the same relative power, or even better to make lvl 10 kill the same mob with 4-5 casts and lvl 50 with 2-3 casts. Not much difference, but players will feel they become a little stronger while leveling.

    Of course we will not take things like content access, just for relative power in the same content for different lvls.
    What metro means to say is that the level 10 is supposed to spam the one skill. The level 50 isn't.
    As such, the specific skill in question doing relatively more damage at level 10 than the on level 50 is a totally expected outcome

    That's not to say that there couldn't be tweaks in the instances where the difference is completely disproportional beyond the expected outcome.
    But the system itself is great.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by hedren View Post
    I repeat. You are actually decreasing in power as you level up and gain more abilities.

    The obvious solution to this problem would be to not have level 10's group up with level 50's. They should be doing different content.
    No, they shouldn't. Then we get the problem of "there's not enough people doing the content I want to do."

    Low levels need to be able to play with high levels, otherwise low levels can't do anything, because eventually everyone playing is high level. If the eventual goal is "everyone hits max level," then the eventual solution needs to be "people who are not max level yet need to be able to play with the max level people."

    And being completely unable to contribute to a group due to "wanting to play the game" would be really shitty.

    Now, if we're saying "I expect the level 10's frostbolt to hit equally as hard as the level 50's" that is also incorrect. Because the level 10 only has Frostbolt - They can't choose to use the rest of the level 50's rotation in order to up their DPS. Their DPS would be locked at a level 50 version of Frostbolt. That wouldn't be contributing to the group in a meaningful way. So their frostbolt DOES in fact have to hit harder to keep up - It's an issue of balancing a harder hitting frostbolt with a lack of rotation. Without the rotation, they'll never contribute as much - Once they HAVE the full rotation, they should scale exactly to 50, but making that precisely right will take time.
    Last edited by Fleugen; 2020-10-22 at 04:56 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    I'm sorry sir, but we do not serve complimentary cheese when you bring your own whine.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by hedren View Post
    I've been doing the headless horseman on my low level toons for experience, and I noticed that my level 10 characters especially always top the meters. Now when you are in a group with high level characters, obviously the numbers are in relation to your own level. I see low numbers, and a level 50 sees high numbers.

    But if you look at the percentage of damage done in comparison to the rest of the group, my level 10 characters can blow away level 50's. I just did it on my arcane mage and you just have to do arcane blast and you'll do like 90% of the groups damage. With level 50 characters in the group.

    Similarly I have a much easier time healing on low level characters, even though they have less spells available. The spells heal for more, and mana regenerates faster.

    I know this is just headless horseman, but I assume this being the case in dungeons from level 10-50 as well. It's obviously the way things scale in dungeons.

    And I know this is just leveling dungeons, but still, I don't think that in an MMO level 10 characters should this easily be outperforming level 50 characters. I don't think that as you gain levels and gain more abilities, your performance should become worse.
    see how it works at 60, the game isnt designed around cap level 50, so expect some weirdness.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Synical123 View Post
    Yeah I don’t think there is a problem tbh. Except there are some specs that are absolutely broken. Try to heal with attonement as a disc, it’s horrible. Then go hit something in the face with a holy pally. You’ll literally top the charts
    Or check the difference between elemental shaman and restoration shaman. Resto does almost twice the damage of ele by just spamming bolt at lower levels.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Evolixe View Post
    What metro means to say is that the level 10 is supposed to spam the one skill. The level 50 isn't.
    As such, the specific skill in question doing relatively more damage at level 10 than the on level 50 is a totally expected outcome

    That's not to say that there couldn't be tweaks in the instances where the difference is completely disproportional beyond the expected outcome.
    But the system itself is great.
    That works wrong in this case too. You can test full 40 or 50 lvl rotation on the same target with 10 lvl and 10 lvl will kill target way faster even with perfect 40-50 lvl execution.

    Also, its wrong when you need to tune relative skill damage. its level 10? It doesn't have essential skills for fiull rotation? So it needs to suffer! kill mob slower. Its natural for RPG.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by NihilSustinet View Post
    see how it works at 60, the game isnt designed around cap level 50, so expect some weirdness.
    Why do not design game around all levels? Its just a matter of scaling curves, nothing more.

  13. #113
    Similar thing to what happened during Legion and BFA levelling. No idea why so many people here think it's acceptable now. It felt awful during both Legion and BFA, you growing weaker with every level gained.
    Blizz ended up nerfing the scaling since people left their characters at the minimum level and destroyed everyone and everything. Wonder if they'll nerf here too.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by kukkamies View Post
    Blizz ended up nerfing the scaling since people left their characters at the minimum level and destroyed everyone and everything. Wonder if they'll nerf here too.
    Yep, I remember those minimum level tanks in dungeons doing insane dps. Also they fixed pvp scaling pretty fast despite of rotations and other sh*t like "he has less skills!"

  15. #115
    I did a shadowmoon burial grounds with 3 lvl 10s and the bosses died in like 5 seconds. In a group of level 30+ the instance probably took 20 minutes longer. High levels slow down your clear significantly with scaling now.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Synical123 View Post
    Yeah I don’t think there is a problem tbh. Except there are some specs that are absolutely broken. Try to heal with attonement as a disc, it’s horrible. Then go hit something in the face with a holy pally. You’ll literally top the charts
    Shadow meld(or flash heal at lvl10) easily keeps a group up by itself. Attonement sucking at low levels is only a problem, if the player doesn't really want to heal.

  17. #117
    Can't say I've seen this issue. Been topping dps on both my rogue and warlock since level 20, all the way to 50, with mixed levels in all of them. Scaling is fine, some people are just hot garbage.

    Only ones I didn't top were with friends who actually know how to play.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Synical123 View Post
    Well you cared enough to call someone dumb for being correct, so you could at least care enough to admit you were wrong.
    You'll have to show me where I called someone dumb. Or where I'm wrong. I must have missed it.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Rainyhealz View Post
    Everyone here disagreeing with the op obviously had no clue. Go into a dungeon as a level 10 resto shaman with 4 level 50s and watch as your lightning bolt chunks the boss significantly more than the 50s damage abilities. Feel free to use an actual damage meter addon to help prove you wrong. The op is 100% correct. This is so stupidly obvious that the lower level you are, the more % of damage you contribute
    I noticed this yesterday while playing with a friend as a level 20 resto shaman and everyone else level 50, even on his dps meter I was above him and my lava burst was critting for huge amounts, but when playing with a random pug of other level 20-30s my dps was way lower
    Last edited by apelsinjuice; 2020-10-22 at 08:22 AM.

  20. #120
    Bloodsail Admiral Alkizon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Strasbourg
    Posts
    1,178

    Thumbs down

    haven't read the whole topic in detail, it's rather answer directly to header

    Essence of claim is clear, but also logical and predictable based on scaling mechanism itself (according to conditions of its pure mathematical model, people almost literally called specific consequences of introduction of this outrage already before Legion ~and even separately for PvP, also frighteningly accurate~ do you remember how long ago it happened?). Actually, "level-squish" is possible without scaling, but mechanism/design/organization of lvling itself is now completely based on use of scaling, so no matter how I strive/insist on removing/eradicating/excluding this (and this is how things really are), but it simply can't be painlessly cut out of current/newfangled organization... because everything in the game is interconnected and scaling mechanism violates/affects too many elements of game's design as a whole. They can reduce its influence, tweak numbers, but in no way exclude destructive/problematic factors. In fact, the whole theme with "twisting" can (and very possibly will) easily and naturally end very familiarly *pointing with smirk at Legion's PvP template system* and here I'm hinting not at PvP at all. Remember their main problem/drawback? You know how it ended, right? So this how "scaling things" usually goes.

    Presence of scaling for me is equivalent to red flag, sign of bad taste/incompetence, trigger/indicator of sensor by which one can immediately say that system isn't organized correctly, it requires rough/forced intervention in the process by automation (and, as you already know, it can't function without one). In general, process itself is completely focused on solo passage now (it only raises number of questions and problems in this form when doing it in the group), ignoring laws of universe, ignoring main principles of progress in both story and characters' development in role-playing games (if they're based on this principle, and this game is still such... for now). Process is completely devalued in this way, and if they are so incompetent in creating holistic progressive systems, then it's better for them to abandon "level" indicator altogether: firstly, this will exclude errors multiplied by each element of scaling, and secondly, it will return to square one its component/justice of historical sequence, connectedness of narrative progression... I won't like it, but even that would be better, than what they did. Passing story will become just fun/background/optional element, giving some kind of basic set of equipment, personal experience of motor skills and interface functioning, knowledge of "current" lore, while their main problem will become alternative and adequate itemization (and they don't want to give up this carrot, no no no, it's so cheap and easy, but organizing normal progress' process is expensive, difficult... freeloaders, amateurs). What they're doing now is just half-assed work, retrenchment on everything.

    This is one of main reasons why I don't have even slightest sympathy neither for direct organization of process itself, nor for devs, who designed it.

    We have already discussed this within framework of separate topic and with examples from other games, where I described in sufficient detail my personal degree of disgust for this, but, I think, it's quite enough of what is written above.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alkizon View Post
    6. Bad world+ (and not only) scaling +(+/+)+/+/+/+/+/+/+/+
    9.
    Quests/leveling (&levels) +(+/+)+(+)
    Last edited by Alkizon; 2020-11-25 at 11:04 AM.
    __---=== IMHO(+cg) and MORE |"links-inside" ===---__

    __---=== PM me WHERE if I'm unnecessarily "notifying" you ===---__

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •