Doing more damage at low levels now

[iinverse]

So according to you in an RPG the hardest parts of the game are supposed to be the first few mobs, while the easiest part should be the endboss?

Common content avalilable for all levels must become easier with leveling, thats obviously. "Endbosses" must be harder for higher lvl and very hard or (nearly) imposible for 10 lvl. Now we have the situation where "Endboss" is piece of cake for 10 lvl and harder for 40-50 lvl.

[Toybox]

I didn't say that Damn quoting system.

[iinverse]

I didn't say that Damn quoting system.

Sorry, it seems that his post contains some errors with bb codes Fixed

[oblakoff]

This issue could easily be averted by allowing us to queue for ALL dungeons and matchmaking be done with people in similar levels. But no, we should split the playerbase in seven different queues for no apparent reason.

[Shaetha]

That's the problem with the new system.

No, the problem is people using damage meters irresponsibly. They're not for you to judge other players. They're for you to judge you.

Worry about yourself. Take care of yourself. Try to find people with which you like to play, and play with them. You're never going to fully enjoy a multiplayer game unless you do. Stop looking for reasons to dislike things. Instead, try to make the best of what you have. Obviously you shouldn't take any wooden nickels, but a civilized human's default reaction should not be hostility.

[vagnar]

This issue could easily be averted by allowing us to queue for ALL dungeons and matchmaking be done with people in similar levels. But no, we should split the playerbase in seven different queues for no apparent reason.

I think the best way to deal with this issue is to get rid of scaling and get rid of dungeonfinder. Dungeons have mutated into this thing that you run over and over, in low levels it's because of the bonus experience of a random dungeon, when it used to be that you only did dungeons when they were in your levelrange and they had quests that provided a good amount of experience.

The game needs to be completely broken down and restructured at this point.

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No, the problem is people using damage meters irresponsibly. They're not for you to judge other players. They're for you to judge you.

Worry about yourself. Take care of yourself. Try to find people with which you like to play, and play with them. You're never going to fully enjoy a multiplayer game unless you do. Stop looking for reasons to dislike things. Instead, try to make the best of what you have. Obviously you shouldn't take any wooden nickels, but a civilized human's default reaction should not be hostility.

damage meters are not the problem, they just make it apparent how broken the game is

even without damage meters, low level players would still be outperforming high level players

you would still see the difference in the game without damage meters, you just have to pay more attention to the actions of the individual players to notice it

[Evolixe]

When you go back to Deadmines at level 60, the mobs there are still the same level and are much easier to kill.

In current WoW, Deadmines not only scales up with you, it becomes harder as your level increases.

You missed the entire point, wow


The content scales with you. Yes. That's the whole idea of it.
Like its always been, you have an easy time early on. And gradually the game works you up to overcome bigger challenges.

It would be completely nonsensical for level 10's to be having the hardest time in the game and the latest mythic endboss be an easy oneshot.

Now if you say you don't like THE WAY that this is done, you have an argument (not a very compelling one, but an argument nonetheless).
But to say the system is dysfunctional entirely is a complete 0head conclusion.

[vagnar]

You missed the entire point, wow


The content scales with you. Yes. That's the whole idea of it.
Like its always been

We didn't always have scaling. It is you that is missing the point.

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It would be completely nonsensical for level 10's to be having the hardest time in the game and the latest mythic endboss be an easy oneshot.

Yeah level 10 players shouldn't have a hard time. They should have easy content and max level players should have hard content.

Different content.

Not the same content scaled up.

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Now if you say you don't like THE WAY that this is done, you have an argument (not a very compelling one, but an argument nonetheless).
But to say the system is dysfunctional entirely is a complete 0head conclusion.

When you level up and become weaker, then it's not just the system that is dysfunctional, the entire game is.

[Evolixe]

We didn't always have scaling. It is you that is missing the point.

I'm not missing the point, I just disagree.

Yeah level 10 players shouldn't have a hard time. They should have easy content and max level players should have hard content.

Different content.

Not the same content scaled up.

Again, that is your opinion. And I don't share it. I think the new system is great and makes for a lot of inclusion.
I can finally level with my friends without having to be careful to over or underlevel them at any point in time.
We can do the same quests, the same content, and generally have a fun time without any regard for the other parties level.

There are definitely some things that could be ironed out, like I really think that at this point we should be able to queue for all dungeons regardless of the timewalking path we chose. At least as a veteran player (it can be understandably confusing for a new player).
But that doesn't make it a bad system. Its a great system, there is just even more improvements that could be made and I'm sure with time will be made.

When you level up and become weaker, then it's not just the system that is dysfunctional, the entire game is.

You don't become weaker. Everything else becomes stronger.
Which is the expected outcome of a game that literally stands and falls on progression for the very vast majority of its playerbase.

[Nyel]

It's just another scaling issue (scaling for the sake of scaling). I'm curious to see how people like the experience that they get drastically weaker on their way to 60. It's the same as in BfA again, where you gradually lose stuff and get weaker over the course to max level. And on max level your class feels absolutely awful because you lost Azerite, your good equipment etc. and gained nothing in exchange.

I've read that you're about 30-40% stronger on level 50 now than you'll be on level 60. Sounds like fun, doesn't it?

[vagnar]

It's just another scaling issue (scaling for the sake of scaling). I'm curious to see how people like the experience that they get drastically weaker on their way to 60. It's the same as in BfA again, where you gradually lose stuff and get weaker over the course to max level. And on max level your class feels absolutely awful because you lost Azerite, your good equipment etc. and gained nothing in exchange.

I've read that you're about 30-40% stronger on level 50 now than you'll be on level 60. Sounds like fun, doesn't it?

I mean throw into that that we constantly have our stats squished. We had a stat squish at the beginning of BFA and now again one at the beginning of Shadowlands. Seeing your numbers get squashed like that alone makes you feel weaker, and it is just happening on a regular basis now. There is no reason why we shouldn't just expect this to be happening at the start of every expansion now.

[Kehego]

It's just another scaling issue (scaling for the sake of scaling). I'm curious to see how people like the experience that they get drastically weaker on their way to 60. It's the same as in BfA again, where you gradually lose stuff and get weaker over the course to max level. And on max level your class feels absolutely awful because you lost Azerite, your good equipment etc. and gained nothing in exchange.

I've read that you're about 30-40% stronger on level 50 now than you'll be on level 60. Sounds like fun, doesn't it?

there's always some retard every prepatch mentioning how they were stronger in the last content patch of expansion A and weaker in the first content patch of expansion B

[Nyel]

there's always some retard every prepatch mentioning how they were stronger in the last content patch of expansion A and weaker in the first content patch of expansion B

This wasn't the case up until BfA though (because scaling didn't exist). No matter what, you've always grown stronger in new expansions and not drastically weaker as it is the case transitioning from Legion -> BfA and BfA -> Shadowlands.

[Pro-Violence]

Not sure it entirely matters, or is entirely true either.

I know I had to go out and help a few low levels the past few weeks, through party sync, and my L50 characters were absolutely destroying whatever elite mobs they were getting one-shot by (even when party synced).

[PenguinChan]

This also entirely depends on what content you're running as well. Doing Classic / Cataclysm revamp zones makes you totally destroy everything. But if you queue for recent expansions things tend to take longer to kill even at level 15, even 10.

[czarek]

Headless horseman instance is scaled dude like timewalking :P

[iinverse]

Not sure it entirely matters, or is entirely true either.

I know I had to go out and help a few low levels the past few weeks, through party sync, and my L50 characters were absolutely destroying whatever elite mobs they were getting one-shot by (even when party synced).

I believe we're talking about fully geared 50lvl, not fresh ones?

[Tinary]

Are you sure its not a problem of different skill on players? I have never had an issue low levels out performing me when i have to dps. Heck even when i level with my friends its hard to find a low level player outperforming tanks or properly skilled high levels. There might be some random arcane mage doing fast st dmg but thats just a ramp up time difference, in a longer fight he aint and in aoe, almost all low levels fall flat. Its just another pointless complain just to complain.

Also blizzard has stated multiple times that they balance/scale based on how long should you kill a target on a certain level not based of how much dps you do.

For example, lets say you are arcane mage at level 10. You have Arcane blast and Arcane barrage. 2 skills. How long should it take to kill a target? 3 presses on skill or 10? is 10 arcane blasts to kill a random mob fun? is 2?
Lets say you are Arcane mage at level 50. You have Arcane blast, Arcane barrage, Arcane missile, touch of the magi, arcane power, presence of mind and talent choices. How long it should take to kill a mob? Same as level 10? 2 arcane blasts? Is that fun or using your kit is more fun? So lets take you need to use 6 set of skills to kill a target. That is more fun as level 50, not as fun as level 10 tho.

Now lets say you are grouped up with level 50 in a random dungeon. The mob is scaled based on your level so if you are level 10 in that dungeon, boss should take 10 button presses to die cause you only have 2 skills. If you are level 50 in that dungeon, boss is scaled at your level and takes 40 button presses to die. If the boss takes 10 button presses for lvl 50 to die its not fun.

Now lets say you scale everything so that everything is scaled based on level 50 in dungeon. Is it fun to press arcane blast 40 times at level 10 so that you would do relatively same DPS as level 50?

So in conclusion its not the damage that affects the scaling, its the time to kill a target because you have more buttons. It would be horrible experience for level 10s in dungeons if it would take them the same time to kill a target as to level 50s. Not to mention they would be instantly kicked.

(Also headless horseman is not a proper example anyway, its a random fast bossfight)

[Enty]

snip

Don't know man, i would expect to kill same Durotar boar faster at level 50 than level 10.

We are not talking about different mobs in different zones in different level ranges with different abilities (not to mention lore implications) - it is the same mob which gets stronger each time you get stronger. And it gets stronger more than you do. What this means is that you are getting weaker relatively to this said mob. There is no skill involved. If the same abilities takes off 25% HP per cast at level 10, and 10% at level 50, you can claim skill all you want, level 10 will kill mob in 4 GCDs while you do in 10.

Imagine somehow 2+2 becomes harder to calculate the older you are.

[VinceVega]

I don't feel like i am getting weaker in open world.

Dungeons? Yeah. A Level 10 Tank does 70% of group dmg right now which is weird. But does it really bother me? No. Idc. It is leveling. Why would i watch the dmg meter? I just want to get through the dungeon.