Doing more damage at low levels now

[Doffen]

Funny seeing those level 11s/15s etc doing the 50% of the groups damage with Arcane Explosion, Spinning Crane Kick and so on

And its not only on AoE, those abilities does 50% of their damage on singe target bosses too. On my meters the mage was doing up to 6k dps on some packs :P

I am not complaining, dungeons are literally melting.

[oblakoff]

denial - There is no such thing, it is impossible for a level 50 to do significantly less damage than a level 10
anger - How could you say Blizz screwed up scaling, HOW COULD YOU
bargaining - Ok, the scaling must be way off, but leveling dungeons doesn't matter
depression <<< This topic is now here
acceptance

[iinverse]

Like I said, at that point its just a matter of turning a knob slightly to the left or to the right.
This content is hardly relevant, so don't be surprised if it takes some time before they bring stuff more in line.

It may be not relevant while leveling 10th alt, but its relevant for people who want RPG feel while leveling.

What matters is that the system itself is functional and works well.

Again, it works well while you levling 10th alt. It doesnt work when you want to actually feel growing in power while leveling.
It can be fixed pretty quickly (just by calibrating scalig curve), idk why blizz didn't do it earlier.

[NihilSustinet]

That works wrong in this case too. You can test full 40 or 50 lvl rotation on the same target with 10 lvl and 10 lvl will kill target way faster even with perfect 40-50 lvl execution.

Also, its wrong when you need to tune relative skill damage. its level 10? It doesn't have essential skills for fiull rotation? So it needs to suffer! kill mob slower. Its natural for RPG.

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Why do not design game around all levels? Its just a matter of scaling curves, nothing more.

man, if thats all it is, maybe you should get a job at blizzard and teach them how to do their jobs

[iinverse]

man, if thats all it is, maybe you should get a job at blizzard and teach them how to do their jobs

I don't want to change my job just for fixing leveling in WoW. But you know, I, as a player, can say what's wrong with it, and suggest some solution.

[iinverse]

It should be that each zone has a level range that roughly matches its progression into that expansion’s story.

How do you believe it must work to actually complete each zone story progression if zones become obsolete very quickly using your system?
With new system you can at least progress main story of chosen expansion.

[Pohut]

Yes, lower levels have been doing higher % of damage ever since dungeon scaling has been introduced. This is nothing new. It's definitely dumb, but not a big issue as class balance barely matters until max level content.

I don't think they have. It looks like all damage meters just not properly calculating damage when in a scaled group like that.

[Jujudrood]

People aren't looking at the raw damage.
The issue is that, when scaled down to 10, the mob health is lower, which is by design to allow lower level characters with a lesser toolkit actually be able to kill things.
As you level, you gain in power and mobs gain more HP, but the HP gain rate by mobs outweighs the overall "power gain" by the player.
The player still doe smore damage, the mobs are just more spongier than previous levels.

What you get is a damage meter saying "the level 10 did 50% of the total boss HP damage all by himself!!" but, in reality, the level 10 did 50 damage per attack to a mob with 1000 HP, whereas the level 50 did 1000 damage per attack to a mob with 50000 HP, meaning the damage increased by a factor of 20, but the HP increased by a factor of 50.
So the overall % of health lost by the mob per second was greater for the 10 due to the health scaling of the mob being more favorable for lower levels.
**Made up numbers to show the mathematic outcome of scaling**

It's not new, it's not unique, and a level 10 isn't more "powerful" than a level 50.
The level 10 simply gets an easier path to level because otherwise if the ratios were even, it would take 20 seconds per mob since they have only 1-2 abilities that can do any damage.

You can say "Down with scaling then, since the HP is all messed up!", but then all you do is create a major problem of not having dynamic group finder groups, leaving you to wait in queue forever and a day bc everyone has to be within 3-5 levels of you AND also queueing for the same xpac dungeon set.
No thanks.
If a level 10 contributes in a dungeon, great. Makes it faster for all.

[Evolixe]

To me that just feels weird. I’m not familiar with the specifics of the new leveling system so excuse me if this isn’t exactly how it works, but to me, “I’m level 10, I’m gonna go quest in Icecrown!” just feels wrong.

It should be that each zone has a level range that roughly matches its progression into that expansion’s story.

Other than your feelings and historic experience theres really nothing to say it should be so.

This is like old people and technology. You're stuck in old ways and the game has moved past those.

[Jujudrood]

I don't think they have. It looks like all damage meters just not properly calculating damage when in a scaled group like that.

Yeah, this is the perceived issue.
The addons don't take into account the difference in scaling between a level 10 mob HP vs a level 50 mob HP.
The level 50 does much, much more overall raw damage when compared to a level 10, but their level 50 mob has even more HP than the difference in damage factor.
For example, it means the level 10's 50 damage per second takes 5% of the boss health, whereas the level 50s 1000 damage per second takes only 2% of the boss health.
The addons don't take that into account, they just try to round up or down to get everyone on the same relative level, but it does so with static math based on damage, not based on the target HP.

[Evolixe]

It may be not relevant while leveling 10th alt, but its relevant for people who want RPG feel while leveling.

The only people that this possibly poses any obstacle for is veterans. New players wont give a damn one way or the other.

At that point you really should wonder if its worth all this worry. Which i really think it isnt.

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What a useless response!

Oh the irony

[Henako]

100% correct, my apologies, I thought you were a different poster.

No stress. I make mistakes all the time, too.

[iinverse]

Yeah, this is the perceived issue.
The addons don't take into account the difference in scaling between a level 10 mob HP vs a level 50 mob HP.
The level 50 does much, much more overall raw damage when compared to a level 10, but their level 50 mob has even more HP than the difference in damage factor.
For example, it means the level 10's 50 damage per second takes 5% of the boss health, whereas the level 50s 1000 damage per second takes only 2% of the boss health.
The addons don't take that into account, they just try to round up or down to get everyone on the same relative level, but it does so with static math based on damage, not based on the target HP.

That already was answered earlier. Yes, player become stronger each level. But the main problem that environment becomes stronger too, but way faster than player. Assuming that we have EVERYTHING scalable around leveling player, his relative powers gets weaker every level.

Its like you was smartest kid in kindergarden, then you go to school, get more knowledge, but other kids gain it faster and became smater than you. And while you became smarter than previous you, you also became the dumbest kid in the entire school.

We need system that allow lvl 40 to kill boar in Durotar faster than lvl 10 for the same mob. Its natural for RPG to kill mob slower while lowlevel and faster when high level. But now we have a sutiation where lvl 10 can kill the same mob in 2-3 seconds, while lvl 40 needs 5-10 seconds to kill the same mob.

[lolmmofuture]

the whole prepathch is so inconsistent

[vagnar]

I was just doing Razorfen Kraul and I was doing 50% of the damage as a level 11 hunter. Rest were level 45. Healer had trouble healing the tank on the encounter with the 3 bosses, and we wiped twice. Seemed like we just couldn't do it. Something's definitely weird with scaling in dungeons.

[Dhrizzle]

It does kinda make sense. As you gain levels the game gets harder, with level scaling this is shown as lower levels doing a higher proportion of damage (i.e. they can kill mobs quicker.) A dungeon taken by all lvl 10s would be easier than a dungeon taken by all lvl 50s.

[oblakoff]

A dungeon taken by all lvl 10s would be easier than a dungeon taken by all lvl 50s.

In what world that would make sense considering we are talking about the same dungeon?

[ymirsson]

In what world that would make sense considering we are talking about the same dungeon?

It's the power of friendship!

[MrLachyG]

I was in a dungeon with a level 10 tank. this guy was a twink and had ilvl 50 gear somehow and was absolutely obliterating shit. we cleared the dungeon in 5 minutes, it was amazing

[Ninix]

I've been doing the headless horseman on my low level toons for experience, and I noticed that my level 10 characters especially always top the meters. Now when you are in a group with high level characters, obviously the numbers are in relation to your own level. I see low numbers, and a level 50 sees high numbers.

But if you look at the percentage of damage done in comparison to the rest of the group, my level 10 characters can blow away level 50's. I just did it on my arcane mage and you just have to do arcane blast and you'll do like 90% of the groups damage. With level 50 characters in the group.

Similarly I have a much easier time healing on low level characters, even though they have less spells available. The spells heal for more, and mana regenerates faster.

I know this is just headless horseman, but I assume this being the case in dungeons from level 10-50 as well. It's obviously the way things scale in dungeons.

And I know this is just leveling dungeons, but still, I don't think that in an MMO level 10 characters should this easily be outperforming level 50 characters. I don't think that as you gain levels and gain more abilities, your performance should become worse.

You just discovered absolute versus relative.

It was about time.