Doing more damage at low levels now

[Jazzhands]

I don't care about raids and I already have every class at max level.

Cool, have fun running dungeons on a level 10 for basically no reason other than to "flex". Sounds like a great use of time.

[vagnar]

Prepare for level 45's to whine about being kicked out of dungeons because the level 10s and 20s don't want you slowing down their experience.

Well they have a reason to whine then.

I was just in a group where someone announced they needed to quickly relog and within seconds someone tried to kick them for being afk

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Cool, have fun running dungeons on a level 10 for basically no reason other than to "flex". Sounds like a great use of time.

I didn't say I would do that. You started the epeen talk, I was just matching your vibe.

I'll most likely just play classic or FF14 until Shadowlands is out.

[Eggroll]

Being competitive in leveling content is BS imho. This is why I find your point moot.

What really bothers me, is that the characters have too much power in solo content, nothing was hard in my recent leveling experience. There's no "danger" in leveling up. That's boring. Everything is a pushover.

[vagnar]

Being competitive in leveling content is BS imho. This is why I find your point moot.

What really bothers me, is that the characters have too much power in solo content, nothing was hard in my recent leveling experience. There's no "danger" in leveling up. That's boring. Everything is a pushover.

It's not about being competitive, it's about wanting progression and not regression.

[oblakoff]

For the sixth time - it has nothing to do with:

1. competitiveness
2. damage meters
3. epeen
4. leveling speed
5. significance of leveling dungeons

The only thing it has to do is:

Damage of level 10 who has to press 1 (one) button is BETTER than a full-scale level 45 rotation by quite a large margin. This literally means that in a RPG progression DOES NOT MATTER. Even - as you progress you FEEL weaker, not stronger. Moreso - the more you do as a complexity of rotation, the tools you get, feels like DOES NOT MATTER.

How can this be so complicated to comprehend? The new leveling system is great, chromie time is great, just the scaling is waaaaaay off. There is no need to put on the white knight mantles and defend the infallibility of Blizzard. For PvP it took 2 expansions to get rid of idiotic scaling, just because the "cOmMunIty" (i.e. the vocal minority) did not believe such a problem existed.

[Dazmalak]

Being competitive in leveling content is BS imho. This is why I find your point moot.

What really bothers me, is that the characters have too much power in solo content, nothing was hard in my recent leveling experience. There's no "danger" in leveling up. That's boring. Everything is a pushover.

I would disagree to some degree. My experience with WoD rares and certain quest mobs hasn't been trivial as people make them out to be. Needing to use all of your zone buffs to take a quest mob out seems excessive. They're doable, but not unthreatening. By contrast I have had a super easy time after swapping over to BfA content so maybe the scaling is just better there? Scaling seems to be all over the place, either way.

[Evolixe]

Damage of level 10 who has to press 1 (one) button is BETTER than a full-scale level 45 rotation by quite a large margin. This literally means that in a RPG progression DOES NOT MATTER. Even - as you progress you FEEL weaker, not stronger. Moreso - the more you do as a complexity of rotation, the tools you get, feels like DOES NOT MATTER.

How can this be so complicated to comprehend? The new leveling system is great, chromie time is great, just the scaling is waaaaaay off. There is no need to put on the white knight mantles and defend the infallibility of Blizzard. For PvP it took 2 expansions to get rid of idiotic scaling, just because the "cOmMunIty" (i.e. the vocal minority) did not believe such a problem existed.

For the tenth time;

This is intended (and if you think about it for more than 2 seconds, expected) behaviour.

If you wouldn't only have tons more abilities but they would also all do far more damage or healing, then the level 10 would never be able to provide a meaningful addition to your team. Having one or several lower levels on your team would make content at best rough, and at worst impossible to overcome.

Imagine having a level 10 holy priest healing your group. This priest literally only has Flash Heal and PW:Shield to heal anyone.
If that Flash heal wouldn't be at least x% more powerful than its level 50 component then you would never be able to keep anyone alive because you don't have a bunch of instant casts and cooldowns to save people.

The same philosophy is true for damage. If the level 10 sinister strike wouldn't be x% more powerful than the level 50 sinister strike then theres no way in the world that the level 10 rogue could provide a meaningful contribution to your group versus someone that has access to a whole array of cooldowns and abilities that work to exponentially increase each others value.

On top of that, a level 10 cannot be expected to have a full set of gear, let alone of notable quality. But a level 50 can.
As such, as your character grows and levels up.. the level of gear equipped starts playing an ever more prominent role.

Again, if your argument would be that the finetuning can be worked on and that lower levels do completely disproportionally better <any role> Then yes. It could be better. But then again, this is levelling balance. Those people are not your enemies, they are there to aid you on your mutual objective and who in the hell cares about a 20% difference in performance in a random queue for a levelling environment. Its not like people are going to be asking for your achievements to deadmines and freehold normal.


People comprehend your issue just fine. They just heavily disagree with your ideal.


TLDR; Just turn off details/skada/recount on your lowbies already and just enjoy the game.

[Varaben]

Being competitive in leveling content is BS imho. This is why I find your point moot.

What really bothers me, is that the characters have too much power in solo content, nothing was hard in my recent leveling experience. There's no "danger" in leveling up. That's boring. Everything is a pushover.

Maybe I’m just a dumb dumb on Mage but I actually did overpull at one point and almost died. Maybe it depends on the expansion and stuff I dunno. Didn’t happen often, but I was surprised how hard mobs hit (this was TBC zones).

[tommyhil622]

There's some weird power scaling going on that they have yet to iron out.

[Evolixe]

Maybe I’m just a dumb dumb on Mage but I actually did overpull at one point and almost died. Maybe it depends on the expansion and stuff I dunno. Didn’t happen often, but I was surprised how hard mobs hit (this was TBC zones).

Well yeah its not exactly surprising that if you take your X years of game knowledge into a completely new character and start doing everything exactly right from the start that you are going to be overperforming compared to the expected image of someone new.

People can mess up even 1 button rotations, I think as much should be clear to anyone that has played this game for a while now.
Anyone watch the madseasonshow video where he mentions people clicking their abilities from the spellbook to max level?

You have to account for that sort of stuff as a developer as best you can.

On the other side of the spectrum this is a great way to introduce people to the threat mechanic and that hitting targets carelessly can get you killed.

[vagnar]

How can this be so complicated to comprehend?

Some people are not arguing in good faith.

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Imagine having a level 10 holy priest healing your group. This priest literally only has Flash Heal and PW:Shield to heal anyone.
If that Flash heal wouldn't be at least x% more powerful than its level 50 component then you would never be able to keep anyone alive because you don't have a bunch of instant casts and cooldowns to save people.

So don't group level 10's with level 50's.

A level 10 priest shouldn't be able to keep level 50's alive

[Evolixe]

So don't group level 10's with level 50's.

A level 10 priest shouldn't be able to keep level 50's alive

That is your opinion. A lot (and although neither of us has any statistics, I'd wager a months salary it's probably most) of players like the boundless grouping with friends and acquaintances regardless of their current position in the levelling ladder and aren't too concerned about objectively negligible differences in performance versus expected outcome.


Basically I see only 1 issue here. And that is that you see a problem, where myself and a lot of others see a solution.
This levelling scaling thing does so much good for the game that any side-effects you perceive it to have are completely inconsiderable compared to the benefits that come with it.

[vagnar]

That is your opinion. A lot (and although neither of us has any statistics, I'd wager a months salary it's probably most) of players like the boundless grouping with friends and acquaintances regardless of their current position in the levelling ladder and aren't too concerned about objectively negligible differences in performance versus expected outcome.


Basically I see only 1 issue here. And that is that you see a problem, where myself and a lot of others see a solution.
This levelling scaling thing does so much good for the game that any side-effects you perceive it to have are completely inconsiderable compared to the benefits that come with it.

Oh I'm sure a lot of players like it. I'm sure a lot of players like the kind of playstyle where you queue for dungeons and then play with people you don't know and never talk a word to them, but likewise I believe that sort of thing is destroying the game. Saying a lot of people like it isn't good enough.

[Evolixe]

Oh I'm sure a lot of players like it. I'm sure a lot of players like the kind of playstyle where you queue for dungeons and then play with people you don't know and never talk a word to them, but likewise I believe that sort of thing is destroying the game. Saying a lot of people like it isn't good enough.

The benefits OBJECTIVELY outweigh the purely perceptional drawbacks. You feel like something isn't right, however it's nothing but a feeling.
Now if there was actually a substantial amount of players that shared that feeling with you, that should count for something. But I don't think there is.

I've never seen more people enjoy the levelling experience than now. People are making tons of alts, because finally it doesn't feel like a massive grind, but like a cool little journey you can share with any number of friends regardless of where they are at in that journey.

[vagnar]

The benefits OBJECTIVELY outweigh the purely perceptional drawbacks.

If I subjectively dislike it, then no.

[keldarepewpew]

I've been doing the headless horseman on my low level toons for experience, and I noticed that my level 10 characters especially always top the meters. Now when you are in a group with high level characters, obviously the numbers are in relation to your own level. I see low numbers, and a level 50 sees high numbers.

But if you look at the percentage of damage done in comparison to the rest of the group, my level 10 characters can blow away level 50's. I just did it on my arcane mage and you just have to do arcane blast and you'll do like 90% of the groups damage. With level 50 characters in the group.

Similarly I have a much easier time healing on low level characters, even though they have less spells available. The spells heal for more, and mana regenerates faster.

I know this is just headless horseman, but I assume this being the case in dungeons from level 10-50 as well. It's obviously the way things scale in dungeons.

And I know this is just leveling dungeons, but still, I don't think that in an MMO level 10 characters should this easily be outperforming level 50 characters. I don't think that as you gain levels and gain more abilities, your performance should become worse.

Its probably because you are getting matched with 50 who have dogshit gear

[vagnar]

Its probably because you are getting matched with 50 who have dogshit gear

Even with bad gear they shouldn't be performing way worse than a level 10 character.

[keldarepewpew]

Even with bad gear they shouldn't be performing way worse than a level 10 character.

There is a problem here if you make a level 10 perform worse then a shit geared 50 they will not be contributing anything to the dungeon when compared to a normal geared 50 because the powercreep at lvl 50 itself is immens. Whch will lead to normal geared 50s stomping everything. So either they do more then a shit geared 50 or they do nothing compared to a normal geared 50.

[Mardux]

Even with bad gear they shouldn't be performing way worse than a level 10 character.

Theres also the chance that they arent try-harding on a 20 second holiday event fight.

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If I subjectively dislike it, then no.

Why should your self-proclaimed subjective opinion be pushed on everyone else? What makes your feelings more important than all of the people who objectively disagree with you?

[vagnar]

Why should your self-proclaimed subjective opinion be pushed on everyone else?

I'm just more important.