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  1. #21
    I’ve played both Horde and Alliance... have used War Mode with both... join a guild or premade group... only way to level... percentage difference is meh.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    No fucking way. The worst idea since democracy.

  2. #22
    Legendary! SinR's Avatar
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    doing my Mechagnome, other than the time I did a Legion Invasion with WM on, I've been ganked once maybe twice doing BFA Content. Your mileage may vary on Warlords since that's the hot fast leveling, or elsewhere for that matter.
    We're all newbs, some are just more newbier than others.

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  3. #23
    Herald of the Titans enigma77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabled View Post
    I've been on alliance dominated servers and the War Mode buff is still in favor for the alliance. Makes no damn sense.
    That's because the modern (rotten and stupid) server structure does not give a damn about your realm. It only cares about the region and the cross realm zones.

    You can be on a server with 99% of one faction and have your faction get sharded and layered to oblivion, you don't even see the people playing on your own server out in the world. Really great anti-social game design.

    Just yesterday I was doing the Servant of N'zoth feat of strength with a couple of friends (we were 7 in total) and you can't do this achievement while in a raid. So we figured, since we're all from the same server and guild we'll just form 2 groups and move together. HA! NO! We couldn't. Because the moment we made two groups the 2 people not in the first group magically disappeared into the Nether, I suppose. Great game design, truly.

    They need to take this crossrealm, sharding, layering horsecrap and TEAR it out of the servers. It's the single worst feature to ever disgrace the mmorpg genre. It is antithetical to it. Like IMAGINE being on the same server and guild and you still don't see each other out in the world unless you happen to be in the same group. Why? What is this nonsense?
    Last edited by enigma77; 2020-10-25 at 05:57 PM.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    Just yesterday I was doing the Servant of N'zoth feat of strength with a couple of friends (we were 7 in total) and you can't do this achievement while in a raid. So we figured, since we're all from the same server and guild we'll just form 2 groups and move together. HA! NO! We couldn't. Because the moment we made two groups the 2 people not in the first group magically disappeared into the Nether, I suppose. Great game design, truly.
    "a bloo bloo i couldnt trivialize the achievement by zerging people as a raid"

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    That's because the modern (rotten and stupid) server structure does not give a damn about your realm. It only cares about the region and the cross realm zones.

    You can be on a server with 99% of one faction and have your faction get sharded and layered to oblivion, you don't even see the people playing on your own server out in the world. Really great anti-social game design.

    Just yesterday I was doing the Servant of N'zoth feat of strength with a couple of friends (we were 7 in total) and you can't do this achievement while in a raid. So we figured, since we're all from the same server and guild we'll just form 2 groups and move together. HA! NO! We couldn't. Because the moment we made two groups the 2 people not in the first group magically disappeared into the Nether, I suppose. Great game design, truly.

    They need to take this crossrealm, sharding, layering horsecrap and TEAR it out of the servers. It's the single worst feature to ever disgrace the mmorpg genre. It is antithetical to it. Like IMAGINE being on the same server and guild and you still don't see each other out in the world unless you happen to be in the same group. Why? What is this nonsense?
    Ah, fair enough
    "May the way of the Hero lead to the Triforce"

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  6. #26
    Pit Lord Magical Mudcrab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hatorri View Post
    I was not nice surprised when accidently see the difference on war mode between my horde toon and the ally, what kind of logical and fair excuse Blizzard/Activision will give to me?
    I'm playing wow since 2005 and in all this years alliance was always boosted by the game and we have accepted that, to be alliance is not so easy to play so you need help.. yes yes i know some alliance they will love to gang me on the fields.. :P but this time is way too much.. see the pictures and judges by your self.
    War Mode is inherently risk vs. reward, where you are risking prolonged ganking in exchange for higher rewards. The problem is that, without additional modifiers, faction imbalances, such as that between the Alliance and Horde, means that the relative risk is disproportionate. In order to incentivize taking this risk, Blizzard essentially added a "balancing" system in which the underrepresented faction will receive more rewards to compensate for the additional risk. To be more explicit, the reason why Alliance is receiving more rewards in War Mode is because there are fewer Alliance using War Mode, and the disparity is enough to have the difference shown in your screenshots.
    Sylvanas didn't even win the popular vote, she was elected by an indirect election of representatives. #NotMyWarchief

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by locketto View Post
    Alliance boosted?

    Horde got racials Overtuned for years and that's why most of the top guild were Horde and why the game now has almost all top guild horde.
    It's not why guilds are Horde now. Racials are very balanced right now and have been since Legion.
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
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  8. #28
    It's been this way the whole time, imo if blizz really wanted to address the war mode imbalance, they'd give the outnumbered side a health/damage/healing buff to go with the 30% bonus, or let the 30% grow beyond that to an actual level that will start to seriously look attractive to people. A 30% bonus is nice, but I imagine that a 50% or even 60% bonus would go a lot further to drawing people in, and actually do something to help the imbalance to begin with.

  9. #29
    Pit Lord Magical Mudcrab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    It's not why guilds are Horde now. Racials are very balanced right now and have been since Legion.
    Sort of.

    The problem is we have seen racials being beneficial on certain bosses, which is why the top guilds will choose those factions. This was the case with Goblins for Kil'jaeden, I believe Zandalari for Jaina, and now it seems that some guilds are going Alliance for the Dwarf racial for bleeds in Castle Nathria. So it both is and isn't balanced; it's balanced dps wise, but imbalanced mechanics wise.

    However, initial faction balance can trace its roots to racial imbalance. I think we all know the story of overpowered racials incentivizing Horde, and then because the best players - the performance-oriented players - are Horde, other players that also want to play and compete with the best will choose that faction so they can access the same pool of performance-minded players also go Horde. Now because the best players are Horde, new players who evaluate the factions choose Horde, and you end up in cyclic faction-selection in which most players will start or eventually go Horde.
    Sylvanas didn't even win the popular vote, she was elected by an indirect election of representatives. #NotMyWarchief

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Magical Mudcrab View Post
    Sort of.

    The problem is we have seen racials being beneficial on certain bosses, which is why the top guilds will choose those factions. This was the case with Goblins for Kil'jaeden, I believe Zandalari for Jaina, and now it seems that some guilds are going Alliance for the Dwarf racial for bleeds in Castle Nathria. So it both is and isn't balanced; it's balanced dps wise, but imbalanced mechanics wise.

    However, initial faction balance can trace its roots to racial imbalance. I think we all know the story of overpowered racials incentivizing Horde, and then because the best players - the performance-oriented players - are Horde, other players that also want to play and compete with the best will choose that faction so they can access the same pool of performance-minded players also go Horde. Now because the best players are Horde, new players who evaluate the factions choose Horde, and you end up in cyclic faction-selection in which most players will start or eventually go Horde.
    The only one "Required" that you mentioned was Goblin for KJ which was fixed relatively fast. Troll for Jaina is a non-issue because faction played zero part of that encounter because Alliance players got turned into Horde. As for CN coming up in Shadowlands, it's one guild swapping to Dwarf(not "some guilds"), does not mean it's required or overpowered compared to what others offer. Mag'har could be just as good if not better than Dwarf for CN.

    People want to talk about Horde racials being overpowered "forever" but never want to mention that for Vanilla and BC Alliance racials were flat out better. In MoP and WoD the racials were balanced in a different sense because Horde offered raw output while Alliance offered significant survival perks and in certain cases being able to break out of certain debuffs that Horde just couldn't. The racials have always been mostly balanced, one offered better survivability and the other offered better damage output. But because of community perception "more damage = better" which just isn't true in most cases anymore because they hardly build Patchwerk encounters anymore.
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
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  11. #31
    Pit Lord Magical Mudcrab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    The only one "Required" that you mentioned was Goblin for KJ which was fixed relatively fast. Troll for Jaina is a non-issue because faction played zero part of that encounter because Alliance players got turned into Horde. As for CN coming up in Shadowlands, it's one guild swapping to Dwarf(not "some guilds"), does not mean it's required or overpowered compared to what others offer. Mag'har could be just as good if not better than Dwarf for CN.
    With Exorsus is, I believe, a top 10 guild for PvE content. To say that it's simply one guild, when this decision will impact other top 100 guilds, is a little silly.

    Mag'har might be competitive against Dwarf racial, but I believe they want to flat-out remove the bleed and ignore the mechanics, not have reduced duration.

    People want to talk about Horde racials being overpowered "forever" but never want to mention that for Vanilla and BC Alliance racials were flat out better.
    This isn't true, and we can see as much looking at Classic.
    In PvP, Horde racials are simply better; the only alliance races with good PvP racials are Gnome and Dwarf, the former excelling against Mages and the latter against Warriors/Rogues, whereas all Horde racials are good, with the major standout being Undead who trivialize Warlocks.
    In PvE, it's a bit more difficult. The best clear times are by Alliance guilds, which is by enlarge due to the power and prevalence of Paladin buffs; however, parses are mixed. For example, the majority of top 100~ parses for Warriors are Horde, whereas the top 100~ parses for Rogues are Alliance. Essentially, Alliance clear times are heavily dependent on Paladin buffs, but individual parses are still largely mixed. This implies that the Horde have access to some buff or ability which is largely equalizing this discrepancy, and this is likely their racials.
    Sylvanas didn't even win the popular vote, she was elected by an indirect election of representatives. #NotMyWarchief

  12. #32
    You know... I am starting to think that there is a huge double standard. Alliance complains? Rightfully so. Horde does? "It was just that one time, you were unlucky! at other times the Horde dominates"

    Yeah, no. I cannot activate the War Mode on my Horde Toons on my Shard/Server Cluster without getting stomped out in the Wild. This has been the case for over half of BFA if I remember correctly and since then I pretty much stopped activating it.

    I head out with my 10% Buff to get some quests done? The next Alliance Squad is right around the corner to stomp me.

    But sure, Horde always dominates.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    That's because the modern (rotten and stupid) server structure does not give a damn about your realm. It only cares about the region and the cross realm zones.

    You can be on a server with 99% of one faction and have your faction get sharded and layered to oblivion, you don't even see the people playing on your own server out in the world. Really great anti-social game design.

    Just yesterday I was doing the Servant of N'zoth feat of strength with a couple of friends (we were 7 in total) and you can't do this achievement while in a raid. So we figured, since we're all from the same server and guild we'll just form 2 groups and move together. HA! NO! We couldn't. Because the moment we made two groups the 2 people not in the first group magically disappeared into the Nether, I suppose. Great game design, truly.

    They need to take this crossrealm, sharding, layering horsecrap and TEAR it out of the servers. It's the single worst feature to ever disgrace the mmorpg genre. It is antithetical to it. Like IMAGINE being on the same server and guild and you still don't see each other out in the world unless you happen to be in the same group. Why? What is this nonsense?
    So you're mad because the game didn't let you trivialize the achievement by zerging people to the extent that you wanted to?

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Magical Mudcrab View Post
    With Exorsus is, I believe, a top 10 guild for PvE content. To say that it's simply one guild, when this decision will impact other top 100 guilds, is a little silly.

    Mag'har might be competitive against Dwarf racial, but I believe they want to flat-out remove the bleed and ignore the mechanics, not have reduced duration.
    No other top 100 guild has changed. They would be doing it now while costs are 30% cheaper if they were going to. Mag'har will be better when it comes to progression if the Bleeds become a problem because the Dwarf racial is a 2 minute cooldown, sure it'll be nice for the niche quick moment that you need to remove it, but with Mag'har you have permanent debuff reduction.



    Quote Originally Posted by Magical Mudcrab View Post
    This isn't true, and we can see as much looking at Classic.
    In PvP, Horde racials are simply better; the only alliance races with good PvP racials are Gnome and Dwarf, the former excelling against Mages and the latter against Warriors/Rogues, whereas all Horde racials are good, with the major standout being Undead who trivialize Warlocks.
    In PvE, it's a bit more difficult. The best clear times are by Alliance guilds, which is by enlarge due to the power and prevalence of Paladin buffs; however, parses are mixed. For example, the majority of top 100~ parses for Warriors are Horde, whereas the top 100~ parses for Rogues are Alliance. Essentially, Alliance clear times are heavily dependent on Paladin buffs, but individual parses are still largely mixed. This implies that the Horde have access to some buff or ability which is largely equalizing this discrepancy, and this is likely their racials.
    We were discussing raiding, I'm not having a PvP discussion and I never was, it's entirely irrelevant to bring up PvP balance now as each faction has their own cutoffs for R1 titles, so balance is not needed.

    The comment brought up was that Horde racials have "always" been OP and lead to faction imbalance, this is entirely false and had been discussed as why when your entire argument was 2 specific raid bosses and an upcoming tier. In PvE content Alliance has had significant advantages over Horde for reasons already stated. PvE faction balance has been pretty good for the last 4 years. People need to come up with better arguments because racials aren't one of the issues the game has.
    Last edited by Zyky; 2020-10-26 at 03:45 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Trust me.

    Zyky is better than you.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Sialina View Post
    There are no alliance dominated servers, it's all horde dominated, we are all part of the same world. You might end up in an alliance dominated shard though, it's rare but it happens.
    What? Plenty of servers have significantly more Alliance than Horde, just as plenty of servers have significantly more Horde than Alliance. What are you talking about?

  16. #36
    Ever since they introduced the dynamic buff for Warmode in 8.1 there was only ONE week where Horde had the "Overwhelming Odds" quest on EU.

    And even that was solely because back then it gave HC raid loot and Alliance started to actually turn on WM for the free gear (and accidentally left it on).
    Ever since that one time the Alliance had it at 25% in the worst case. That is almost 2 years now. This is unacceptable.

    The main issue is that this buff does not actually update dynamically. It updates during resets.
    Alliance players only turn off warmode to do the PvP world quests and then turn it off while Horde players leave it on.
    This makes the system think that the Alliance "needs" the buff again while in reality it does not.

    What the solution would be is to make the actual buff dynamic.
    Make it update daily or even hourly. It would even it out much more.

    The Alliance basically has the 30% buff for almost two years now with zero downside.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Lunzenboyo View Post
    You know... I am starting to think that there is a huge double standard. Alliance complains? Rightfully so. Horde does? "It was just that one time, you were unlucky! at other times the Horde dominates"

    Yeah, no. I cannot activate the War Mode on my Horde Toons on my Shard/Server Cluster without getting stomped out in the Wild. This has been the case for over half of BFA if I remember correctly and since then I pretty much stopped activating it.

    I head out with my 10% Buff to get some quests done? The next Alliance Squad is right around the corner to stomp me.

    But sure, Horde always dominates.
    both sides zerg, a lot of people can't conceive of world pvp without zerging

    it's never "we need to play better to defeat those enemy players" but always "we need more people". That's wow players mentality: grab more people until the content is trivialized.

    heck someone was even complaining about not being able to do the servant of nzoth quest in a raid earlier

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    Ever since they introduced the dynamic buff for Warmode in 8.1 there was only ONE week where Horde had the "Overwhelming Odds" quest on EU.

    And even that was solely because back then it gave HC raid loot and Alliance started to actually turn on WM for the free gear (and accidentally left it on).
    Ever since that one time the Alliance had it at 25% in the worst case. That is almost 2 years now. This is unacceptable.

    The main issue is that this buff does not actually update dynamically. It updates during resets.
    Alliance players only turn off warmode to do the PvP world quests and then turn it off while Horde players leave it on.
    This makes the system think that the Alliance "needs" the buff again while in reality it does not.

    What the solution would be is to make the actual buff dynamic.
    Make it update daily or even hourly. It would even it out much more.

    The Alliance basically has the 30% buff for almost two years now with zero downside.
    Alliance is dogshit at pvp. I speak as Alliance myself. Well former Alliance, having transferred a few characters to Horde some days ago.
    So of course they need all the motivation in the world to convince them to engage in pvp.

    PS: Ever since I moved to Horde, I was able to experience how it feels to actually win Trashran. God the Alliance is shit at Trashran.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by The Butt Witch View Post
    Alliance is dogshit at pvp. I speak as Alliance myself. Well former Alliance, having transferred a few characters to Horde some days ago.
    So of course they need all the motivation in the world to convince them to engage in pvp.

    PS: Ever since I moved to Horde, I was able to experience how it feels to actually win Trashran. God the Alliance is shit at Trashran.
    When did we move from warmode to instanced pvp? When did those two things become interchangeable?

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Mardux View Post
    When did we move from warmode to instanced pvp? When did those two things become interchangeable?
    PVP is PVP, doesn't matter if it's instanced or warmode. PVP is a mindset before it's a game feature, and Alliance doesn't have it.

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