Better MM talents.

[Adhominem]

In WoD you were able to move completely freely, but had to take a heavy penalty to damage if you didnt know what you were doing. In that way it allowed the MM players to naturally fall into the groups that managed to move properly and get the damage they wanted, while still allowing full freedom fo movement as an utility option at the cost of damage.
Mostly what I liked about it was that it gave new players a slow introduction to the idea that they have to ration out their movement, knowing when and where to move without being completely gimped on damage if something forces them to stay on the move.

I am not arguing that you should make movement easier just to make it easier, I am arguing that making movement easier allows the complexity in the spec to come from elsewhere.
The WoD playstyle still required a bit of thought, and the ability to move freely with a penalty I found to be an interesting pseudo-utility option.

That is exactly my point. Moving freely makes the spec much more easy and takes away my class fantasy. The heavy penalty wasn't so big compared to the last few iterations, especially the vulnerable window. So I stand by what I said: the WoD playstyle was the easiest iteration (mobility, instant casts, easier time/ability/focus management). Mobility as utility sounds an awful lot like convenience.

allowed the MM players to naturally fall into the groups that managed to move properly

What does this mean? 'Move properly'? The beauty of MM now is that you have to choose when you cast and when to move from start to finish and is always on your mind. This is one aspect that adds to the complexity. I don't want this to be dumbed down.

I am arguing that making movement easier allows the complexity in the spec to come from elsewhere.

I understand what you're saying and mentioned that you're looking at it from the opposite spectrum, but I don't like this direction as I want the the current movement complexity in tact. I'm actually surprised since movement is an even lesser issue in Bfa now. And of course, the WoD Marksmanship still required some thought, but let's be real, it was a meme; a more casual playstyle with not much complexity. Much like the meme build in Legion.

[Adhominem]

In WoD you were able to move completely freely, but had to take a heavy penalty to damage if you didnt know what you were doing. In that way it allowed the MM players to naturally fall into the groups that managed to move properly and get the damage they wanted, while still allowing full freedom fo movement as an utility option at the cost of damage.
Mostly what I liked about it was that it gave new players a slow introduction to the idea that they have to ration out their movement, knowing when and where to move without being completely gimped on damage if something forces them to stay on the move.

I am not arguing that you should make movement easier just to make it easier, I am arguing that making movement easier allows the complexity in the spec to come from elsewhere.
The WoD playstyle still required a bit of thought, and the ability to move freely with a penalty I found to be an interesting pseudo-utility option.

Apparently a few of my posts are still under moderation so I'll make it brief. I understand your stance, but I want to have the have full movement handicap in tact in addition to the new abilities that add complexity. Wow is already easy as it is.

[Sondrelk]

Apparently a few of my posts are still under moderation so I'll make it brief. I understand your stance, but I want to have the have full movement handicap in tact in addition to the new abilities that add complexity. Wow is already easy as it is.

I guess this is just where you and I differ then. I personally think that given how Hunter has historically been about full mobility even at range giving MM the option to have full movement in the form of a likely sub-par talent makes sense.

Then again, since I made this thread I do think it might simply be easier to make Trueshot either give full mobility baseline, or as a talent seeing as that would make it at least a tiny bit more useful.

[Adhominem]

I guess this is just where you and I differ then. I personally think that given how Hunter has historically been about full mobility even at range giving MM the option to have full movement in the form of a likely sub-par talent makes sense.

Then again, since I made this thread I do think it might simply be easier to make Trueshot either give full mobility baseline, or as a talent seeing as that would make it at least a tiny bit more useful.

I just don't understand why people want to have more mobility on a semi-mobile spec that revolves around hardcasting the MM's signature ability. Is it really that hard/inconvenient to focus on abilities and semi-plan your movement? This spec had different iterations in previous expansions where standing still became it's trademark, this is now it's brand.

Genuine question: Why not switch to BM if you want full mobility? It's one of the best and easiest specs to play while you can do your instant attacks on the move. Four major points you're looking for. I'm hoping for MM to remain true to it's 'new' nature and, at it's core, never offer the option to have full mobility and instant casts. I've a feeling that Blizzard will not alter this perception.

[Sondrelk]

I just don't understand why people want to have more mobility on a semi-mobile spec that revolves around hardcasting the MM's signature ability. Is it really that hard/inconvenient to focus on abilities and semi-plan your movement? This spec had different iterations in previous expansions where standing still became it's trademark, this is now it's brand.

Genuine question: Why not switch to BM if you want full mobility? It's one of the best and easiest specs to play while you can do your instant attacks on the move. Four major points you're looking for. I'm hoping for MM to remain true to it's 'new' nature and, at it's core, never offer the option to have full mobility and instant casts. I've a feeling that Blizzard will not alter this perception.

I personally don't really care to be able to move while casting Aimed Shot normally, I do however see several people who would like to be able to move freely. Now that Survival is a melee spec the only option for being fully mobile is BM, and while I do feel that one has too much mobility overall I do feel it is fair to give MM the option at least.
It definitely shouldnt be optimal in any way to be fully mobile as MM, but being able to use your entire rotation while moving was always one of hte selling points of Hunters.

[Adhominem]

I personally don't really care to be able to move while casting Aimed Shot normally, I do however see several people who would like to be able to move freely. Now that Survival is a melee spec the only option for being fully mobile is BM, and while I do feel that one has too much mobility overall I do feel it is fair to give MM the option at least.
It definitely shouldnt be optimal in any way to be fully mobile as MM, but being able to use your entire rotation while moving was always one of hte selling points of Hunters.

It's a common theme for people to want to have an easy spec and do big damage. I'd entertain the option to have a more mobile MM, perhaps as a talent, but then it should be a sub-par talent where maximum damage could only be gained through it's neighbouring talent row. I'm still aware that you want to re-arrange the complexity towards the rotation, but I feel this is too cheap of a price to pay for compensation.

Shame what they did with ranged survival, but I don't think it's fair to supplant MM's identity with a done and dusted spec that will probably not return. MM deserves to be MM. In real life self identity is very important. We're talking about a spec though, not the class. Please remind me in which expansions Aimed Shot was able to be cast while moving. Then I ask you, would it be fair to deem Marksmanship's legacy throughout it's history as fully mobile?