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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeth Hawkins View Post
    Which party has the onus of the burden of proof? Is the caller expected to prove it wasn’t racial, or is the other person supposed to prove it was racial?
    I imagine, like all law, it would be on the plaintiff, in this case the city, to prove the case. That's generally how law works in my experience, is there something you've read that leads you to believe differently?

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Amadeus View Post
    Yeah I am going to have to agree on this point. It's already illegal to call police for BS reasons, not only that but there are already federal hate crime laws. The problem is that so much of what happens on a 911 call are judgement calls by the officer based on their interactions with the community.

    This law isn't going to change that and is going to create more red tape


    What about the next jackass who calls 911 because Subway didn't put enough jalapenos on his fucking sandwich.
    I don't know how it works in the US. But does seem pointless have 2 laws for the same thing.

    In the uk we have a law and then tiers of mitigating circumstance and gritting circumstance that alter the min and max sentence, there no specific crime called a hate crime in the UK, instead we have it as an agrivating circumstance for all crimes, so any crime committed if it shown to be motivated racism or homohobia etc the max sentence and min sentence gets raised.that way there's no need for hundreds of specific laws

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    laws don't work as deterrents, if they did there wouldn't be crimes.
    Obviously they aren't 100% effective was deterrents, but to pretend they are 0% effective is ridiculous.
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  4. #44
    Good luck with that holding up in court. I could actually see crime going up because people will be afraid to call in suspicious activity.
    Last edited by muto; 2020-10-24 at 01:27 AM.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Antiganon View Post
    Obviously they aren't 100% effective was deterrents, but to pretend they are 0% effective is ridiculous.
    A law its self is meaningless, the deterent and effectiveness of the deterent is how its enforced and also to a degree the publics will to allow it to be enforced.

    There's numerous laws in my own country I and every on else here break on regular basis, and I'm not talking about some old forgotten ones, its well known that the max speed limit in the UK is 70mph but its also well know the police don't bother pulling people over for anything under 80-85 because simply put there so many people who do that on the motorway its impossible to enforce, thus the law in that case is essentially meaningless as a deterent, they could lower the speed limit to 60 or 50 on the motorway but it wouldn't matter.

    Legislation is and always has been a very poor method for effecting changes in the publics behaviour.

    Extra Laws ontop of the laws that already exist for this behaviour won't deter these people, what there doing is already illegal anyway.

    What this is, is just a legislative token gesture, European governments and my own government pump these out fairly regularly, new laws ontop of old laws, bits of amendments, clarifying, expanding categorys blah blah, I've seen hindered of laws passed in my life time exactly like this one and I'll see a hundred more before I'm gone, non of them make any real difference.

    The social changes needed to stamp out an abhorant behaviour can only come from within a society, they cannot be imposed on it.

  6. #46
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    Good luck with that holding up in court. I could actually see crime going up because people will be afraid to call in suspicious activity.
    I'm already hesitant to call in law enforcement, but that's mainly a function of me not wanting to be complicit in one of my neighbors being shot by police.
    "Multiculturalism has failed!" angrily types a person of European descent living in the Americas in a Germanic language using Roman characters on a device coded with Arabic numerals before leaving in a huff to go watch cartoons made in Japan.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Antiganon View Post
    Obviously they aren't 100% effective was deterrents, but to pretend they are 0% effective is ridiculous.
    If not one extreme, it has to be the other?

  8. #48
    Why do people in San Francisco call 911 for racism? They should be arrested for it.
    Kom graun, oso na graun op. Kom folau, oso na gyon op.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by the game View Post
    Why do people in San Francisco call 911 for racism? They should be arrested for it.
    It isn't just San Francisco, racist Karens all over the country do it.

  10. #50
    Banned KALAMITY's Avatar
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    They spelled "Karen" wrong.


    Law is now literally unfollowable.

  11. #51
    Void Lord Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    I don't know how it works in the US. But does seem pointless have 2 laws for the same thing.

    In the uk we have a law and then tiers of mitigating circumstance and gritting circumstance that alter the min and max sentence, there no specific crime called a hate crime in the UK, instead we have it as an agrivating circumstance for all crimes, so any crime committed if it shown to be motivated racism or homohobia etc the max sentence and min sentence gets raised.that way there's no need for hundreds of specific laws
    Well I like that the U.K has ASBO laws in general however my problem here is with the redundancy and and legislating laws that really don't mean anything especially when there are already laws not being used. More is not better here, and especially when dealing with a cultural problem

    Laws are good, but they can't be used in place of good policy.
    #ANTIFA "Intellect alone is useless in a fight...you can't even break a rule, how can you be expected to break bone" Khan Singh

  12. #52
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALAMITY View Post
    They spelled "Karen" wrong.

    Law is now literally unfollowable.
    I just don’t think they kare enough...

    They got Mortal Kombat writers and are over compensating...

    With you being Kalamity, you should understand.
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
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  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Amadeus View Post
    Well I like that the U.K has ASBO laws in general however my problem here is with the redundancy and and legislating laws that really don't mean anything especially when there are already laws not being used. More is not better here, and especially when dealing with a cultural problem

    Laws are good, but they can't be used in place of good policy.
    I totally agree

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by the game View Post
    Why do people in San Francisco call 911 for racism? They should be arrested for it.
    Calling 911 for racism is part of the problem. The other part is that the call is going to a bunch of other racists WITH GUNS.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Carlin
    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
    It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.

  15. #55
    Immortal Hammerfest's Avatar
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    This is a problem in San Francisco?
    -Harlan Hammerfest, Paladin

    "Do you suppose it is beyond us to produce a dual system of astronomy? The stars can be near or distant, according as we need them. Do you suppose our mathematicians are unequal to that? Have you forgotten doublethink?" - O'brien, from Orwell's "Nineteen Eighty-Four"

  16. #56
    Hmf...it's San Francisco.
    The thinking is a little off there.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    laws don't work as deterrents, if they did there wouldn't be crimes.
    Of course they work as a deterrent for some, just not for all. You really think the rate of crime today would be the exact same if there were zero laws tomorrow?

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    Of course they work as a deterrent for some, just not for all. You really think the rate of crime today would be the exact same if there were zero laws tomorrow?
    A deterrent for some only if shown to be enforced.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    A deterrent for some only if shown to be enforced.
    And laws in the US aren't enforced?

    Maybe you should tell that to the holder of the highest incarceration rate in the world

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    And laws in the US aren't enforced?
    Topic please.
    Have people been arrested for calling/complaining about perceived racism before enactment of this particular law?

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