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  1. #101
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    i NEVER said that...
    they want to make more money because, brace yourself, they are BUSINESS, its their whole PURPOSE to MAKE MORE MONEY, and if the costs are increasing, their revenue must too, or their stock loose value and so on...
    Which I already noted, the cash shop arguably works against them in this regard because it set a precedent for unsustainable growth. The AAA game development industry as a whole is in a growth bubble nobody reasonable expects to maintain much longer, and especially with anti-loot box regulations becoming more and more popular among various world governments (with some, like Belgium, having already taken steps in that regard), that bubble is looking to pop sooner than later. Microtransactions were the definition of a short-term benefit that's going to have long-term ramifications, because what do you think happens when that growth bubble pops and microtransactions can't sustain the level of growth investors currently demand of companies like Activision-Blizzard and Electronic Arts, who are already starting to hit rough waters for other reasons?

    so again WHERE would you take the money?
    and shadowlands is great example of the philosophy i already mentioned (if collector editions were not good enough proof) - instead of making EVERYONE pay more they make people pay less, unless they WANT TO...
    And I already pointed out, they're in a problem of their own making. Increasing expansion box prices, very few people actually brought up issue with because inflation happens and the box sales generally lagged behind the rest of the industry's pricing strategies. Investors were perfectly happy with the steady growth Blizzard experienced prior to the explosion in sales from microtransactions; very few investor calls involved angry investors asking why their portfolios were growing.

    Your primary mistake in all this is assuming that infinite growth is possible. It's not, and a bunch of overpaid, undereducated executives who thought they stumbled on a golden goose isn't going to change that. I think I peed a little laughing at the idea that a company that regularly brings in over a hundred million dollars annually is going to have any problem keeping a massive profit margin regardless of inflation unless there is massive financial mismanagement afoot (corporate debt bubbles are a thing, which we can see biting airlines in the ass now, but that's another thing where a bunch of overpaid idiots came across a 'brilliant' idea and never stopped to game out how it'd work in the long term), in which case all the microtransactions in the world won't save their profit margins when that comes a-knocking.

    btw still waiting for you to tell me when they increased sub prices in EU as you already said twice and backed it with nothing... bcs i live and play in eu and still pay the same amount... but i wont get it i know, you dont want to accomodate reality, you just want to be mad even if you have to MAKE UP reasons... im not interesting in delusions though, so ill just ignore you, have a nice day
    Okay. Cool, so I misread the EU one. UK still got a sub fee increase, happened back in Cataclysm if memory serves. But if you want to ignore me because I take umbrage with a pay-to-play game including a cash shop for things that should be attainable ingame, and because I don't buy the horseshit that they have to have microtransactions or poor Blizzard just wouldn't be making enough money otherwise, feel free. No skin off my ass.
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by LanToaster View Post
    (Obviously for the smartasses, this is a very dumbed down Example, and probably nowhere near that amount of Money flows back into Development, but I would need to work for Blizzard to make accurate numbers, its an example nothing more to illustrate that "More Money is better than Less Money")
    Even if most of the money that Blizzard make off the store goes straight into profits, it's at least allowing more of the money made from subscriptions to go back into developing the game. I think it would incredibly naive for anyone to believe that if the shop suddenly disappeared that Blizzard and Bobby would simply take that knock out of profits margins...

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Knight Meta View Post
    ...
    Two things:
    1) Not all F2P games are P2W. "Good" F2P games are about "long grind vs instant purchase". More simple explanation - "if you're casual and don't have time or ability to grind it - then pay for it". And your "you can buy it for gold" - is exact "you should grind to buy it". And don't tell me, that gold is easy to earn. For me - it's not. And "if 10 people in the world can do it, than you can too" doesn't work here. What I try to say? That overall it's F2P mechanic. And that rises simple question. What does F2P mechanic do in P2P/B2P game?
    2) Whole reasoning behind paying sub fee back in old days was exactly "OUR GAME WILL NEVER HAVE F2P CRAP". So, if F2P crap is here, then may be sub fee should go away?

    And what is justification for this? Blizzard don't have enough money? Why? Because everything has become more expensive due to inflation? Wrong! Server maintenance is much more cheaper, than it was back in 2004. Blizzard were paying 100K a day (i.e. 3M per month) back in WotLK. And today we have 1$/month servers, i.e. almost every player can have his dedicated Wow server for that money. Because game isn't sold well? May be that's because they do it wrong? May be it's time to admit their mistakes and fix them? No? Why it's players, who have to pay for their problems?
    Last edited by WowIsDead64; 2020-10-23 at 04:36 PM.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by korijenkins View Post
    Because the TCG is a separate entity that had a few cards with in-game uses.

    The complaint is not about the cost or the lack of completion. Most completionists I've met don't care about shop mounts or shop gear as part of their collection. What I hear people complaining about is resources going to item shop garbage instead of gameplay rewards.
    which is also something I don't get because it's precisely 1000x easier to farm gold to buy the shop transmog than farming the gold to buy tcg mounts, the shop items being obtainable through gameplay

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by pepine View Post
    Pay employees? You mean the 1100 they laid off in the past year and a half when they're already making record profits.....

    Yeah no. Even with those 1100 they wouldn't be hurting for money because MTXs for WoW are coming out more than ever. It's literally because Activision and the higher ups are beyond greedy.
    When you own a company, then you get to have a voice in what they charge.

    Until then you only get to decide what you're willing to pay, and that's as meaning to the rest of us as what chocolate bar you prefer to eat. We don't care what you think.
    @thwart <- don't click this and learn his shame
    Newsflash: 2016 Thwart would hate 2019 Thwart! Definitely don't click this either!

    We see you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    I am absolutely a jerk, a complete cunt. But I encourage you to rise above.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Magical Mudcrab View Post
    The service you are looking for is GaaS as games are delivered to users as a service. This is typically referred to as the live service model. This is different from typical subscription services, such as those used by Netflix.
    And nowhere in that article does it say that all the money made on the game has to flow back into said game.

    They say the that it usually does, but not have to. The thing is with a "Business Model" is that if you start a Corporation, you do not "Choose a Business Model", and use it as law. The first line says it all:
    The idea of games as a service began with the introduction of massively multiplayer online games (MMOs) like World of Warcraft
    (while I think there were the occasional other MMO that had a subscription model)
    Someone came up to have people constantly pay for playing a game, so they did it. No one told them how they have to do it. Therfore: They are free to spend the Money however they see fit. Just because a Wiki Article says, that usually the cost cover the game development, doesnt mean:
    A: The Company needs to follow that "rule".
    B: That all the Revenue needs to be used for that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magical Mudcrab View Post
    You do not understand the service model being employed.
    Enlighten me, you still havent produced any kind of document that says: "Blizzard is Obligated to pour all revenue made from their subscription back into world of Warcraft and offer all content created without additional cost"

    Quote Originally Posted by Magical Mudcrab View Post
    You do not understand the industry being discussed, otherwise you would not have repeatedly made silly comparisons to disparate service models and tried to equate them.
    Enlighten me. You appear to be the boss of a Big Corporation, that knows all. Even how Blizzard Spends its money.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magical Mudcrab View Post
    You do not understand anti-consumer behaviour, as anti-consumer and anti-consumerism are not even remotely the same thing; their only commonality is that they are related to business practice.
    I´m sorry, I was under the Impression you were arguing about a actual problem.

    If you think its not favorable to the consumer to sell stuff , and even give it away for Free as Promotional material, you have a Serious Problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magical Mudcrab View Post
    You do not understand the difference between expansions and patches, which means you have no concept either of the history of WoW and the initial controversies surrounding this or you just cannot comprehend the difference in investment between a patch and an expansion.
    I told you the Technical and actual Difference between a Content Patch, and an Expansion: Size, and Additional Cost.

    And asked you what you think is also Different. Oh yea, another Digit in the Version Changes.
    And obviously, larger Patches, or expansions need a larger investment. I never said anything against that. I said:
    From a Technical standpoint, an Expansion is a glorified Patch, that introduces new Content for which you have to pay.
    And if you say that you think Blizzard is not allowed to invest Subscription Money in Paid content, (Like Transmogs/Mounts), you should also on the same page say, that blizzard is not allowed to invest your subscription Money in paid expansions. Because, they are even though the "Size" is different, Paid Content, that they could just as well add into the base game, because you already pay for the active Development of the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magical Mudcrab View Post
    It's very apparent that you just wish to continue arguing from a point of ignorance and bad faith. This has been a waste of time.
    Yea, you said it. I would gladly accept any kind of "Truth" from you, if you would say anything more than: "lalalaal, you dont know anything, I know it, therfore you are wrong, without anykind of backing"


    Quote Originally Posted by Thage View Post
    Don't put words in my mouth. There are people who claim this in this thread itself, which is who my post was aimed at. I never said that was the only reason to sell something--if you read my post in full (odd how you jumped on someone for skimming earlier and obviously skimmed yourself) I even said Blizzard put the cash shop in because they saw other games in the industry pulling in major revenue off microtransactions and wanted in on that slice of the pie.
    I´m sorry if I misread your Post. But the sentence I Quoted specifically said: "For people who think blizzard needs the cash shop to pay their bills", and then you went on about how much money they have to make. I actually stopped reading before the final Paragraph. But I dont remember that I jumped on anyone for skimming might confuse me with someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thage View Post
    Which I already noted, the cash shop arguably works against them in this regard because it set a precedent for unsustainable growth. The AAA game development industry as a whole is in a growth bubble nobody reasonable expects to maintain much longer, and especially with anti-loot box regulations becoming more and more popular among various world governments (with some, like Belgium, having already taken steps in that regard), that bubble is looking to pop sooner than later. Microtransactions were the definition of a short-term benefit that's going to have long-term ramifications, because what do you think happens when that growth bubble pops and microtransactions can't sustain the level of growth investors currently demand of companies like Activision-Blizzard and Electronic Arts, who are already starting to hit rough waters for other reasons?
    This is actually the Only interesting thing I´ve read here in this thread. You are (most likely) right.
    But I think this is a problem noone except Blizzard and its inverstors can actually accurately talk/think about that.

    I dont really think, even though what you say sounds right, this is a problem that actually concerns us, because as long as there is someone who wants to pay for something, there is someone who will gladly take that money out of their hands. And I think before it comes crashing down, it would probably just hit a HighPoint, and not increase anymore, but more likely WoW will end before that.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Knight Meta View Post
    If you buy and / or use WoW tokens for Game time and / or Blizzard Balance - You should legally not* be allowed to whine over the in-game store existing / having items added too it. You are just fueling the system you supposedly "Hate" - You can't have your cake and eat it too.
    Disagree.

    Using a system and thinking a system is bad isnt mutually exclusive.

    Its similar to how the vast majority of mages played with the azshara trinket as a 2nd use trinket. Very few thought it was fun, yet they used it because it was the best. That doesn't prevent the vast majority of them to express their wish that 2x usetrinket should be removed.

    Similarly i will use the server transfer system when needed because releveling from scratch isnt an option. That doesnt mean i like the feature, i simply have no choice.
    I think all transfer features should be free. Its rediculus how much it cost.
    None of us really changes over time. We only become more fully what we are.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Eyechewer View Post
    Ok.

    Option 1: Level up. Get a guild. No decent guild accepts you because you have no gear or experience. You start from a bottom tier guild. You progress, you wipe, you endure hardships. After months of effort you clear the current raid on mythic. Mount drops. You don't get it.

    Option 2: Buy a level boost. Buy a billion coins using real money. Use them to buy mythic boosts until you are decked out in crazy gear. Also buy the mount because why not.

    No pay to win elements.
    What are you paying to win for? There is no win condition in WoW. The gear they bought is only needed to clear raids, what are they going to use it for? Open world content? Pvp where gear WAS normalized in bgs? To ride on a mount that others may or may not have?

    Do you get angry at the people buying tesla because they are rich? Do you get jealous a fellow trades person can afford dewalt and you are using a mastercraft? A bad craftsman blames the tools and even if someone buys gear doesn't mean they are good at their class and game. Sure it'll make somethings easier but skill will always outshine gear / tools.

    In a mmo the only way to win is to find your own way to have fun. Stop worrying about others and enjoy the game how you enjoy it and let them enjoy it how they do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Except it would only be "textbook" confirmation bias if I fully believed that a third spec was actually coming.

  9. #109
    The thing is that few people overall would buy now a 6 month subscription since at least 2 more months from now will be a boring prepatch state but they attach some bs reward to pull the whale's strings and make them open their wallets . I wouldn't mind that much if the game was fine and on track but with the SL delay , and stuff broken it's cringy to see blizzard extending their hand asking for more money than SL expansion , right now...
    And about the token , it's not free you're paying your sub 20€ BN balance or whatever the $ equivalent is , anyway it's more than the regual sub . YOU might not have paid with your own wallet , but someone else still did to allow you to buy a token.

    The only "positive" thing is that they sell the mog separately this time instead of playing on the FOMO like they did for the dreadwake mount

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Knight Meta View Post
    If you buy and / or use WoW tokens for Game time and / or Blizzard Balance - You should legally not* be allowed to whine over the in-game store existing / having items added too it. You are just fueling the system you supposedly "Hate" - You can't have your cake and eat it too.

    (* Because there is an absurd amount of people in this thread alone that is non-trollingly trying to make me seem like the fool for thinking there should be a law about this; I Just had to add this segment to tell you - It is a figure of speech ya dummy)

    Also: While on that topic - What is even the fuss about the game store about? I am a Mount Collector and I'm hardly fazed by there being mounts at the store. Comparing the WoW game store to so many other MMORPGS out there makes the WoW one seem like a kindergarden project; it's harmless. There is NO pay to win elements as no mount, transmog or battle pet will give you an in-game advantage. (Yeah I know Lil'Rags is a decent battle pet but he is nowhere near the best, nor does he break the system)

    In addition to that; All of the items on the game store is TOTALLY obtainable via in-game activities. You get your gold, you turn it into a token and you convert that to currency. Like how is this missing people's head?

    Seeing folks shout "70 DOLLARS / EUROS FOR A MOUNT / TRANSMOG?!" Is also just absurd, it's 70 $ / € for SIX MONTHS OF GAME TIME IN ADDITION TO (Insert whatever Blizz will include with the 6 month sub in the future)

    But yeah, if you add fuel to the system you hate - Then screw you, your argument is invalid. If you use tokens; you should not whine in any way over whatever the heck Blizz adds to the game store (As long as it remains purely cosmetic and nothing stupid like "Pay not for a full set of the most recent raid gear" is added)

    Yet while on that note. Ya'll know WoW can be played for free now after purchase yeah? Thanks to those tokens? Surely a lot of people is doing that. And Blizzard despite being under Activision's wing (Activision which clearly wants WoW to die so they can have the people working on it focus on things like Hearthstone and Overwatch where there is still money being made for some reason) They still got employees to pay, despite that they seem to go in + on the quarterly earnings calls we see: A lot of people seem to think that a in-game store is only justified if your company is going in minus or is barely breaking even. Are you folks just that ignorant? I guess there is a reason you are sitting here complaining about Brightwing being flayed for a transmog as opposed to taking it for what it is and rather unsubbing or moving on with your life.

    Thanks. I'll see some of you in court since surely someone got offended to the point of feeling like I personally attacked them while standing firm on that if you buy and / or use WoW Tokens to any degree; You should shut the heck up about anything in-game store related.
    Nothing to do with tokens. Allowing and defending this design is bad for the future cause blizz devs start to think its okey to slack on regular content and put their talent on shop. I don't doubt that players that have no time or skill to play this game would rather buy these things. Maybe that feels good for them but its not game anymore just dressing room.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by valax View Post
    YOU might not have paid with your own wallet , but someone else still did to allow you to buy a token.
    someone wanted the gold so he bought it, which he would anyway just not from you (and maybe not via blizard), and now you can play without paying... oh the horror, everyone gets what they want, how can we live with that...
    YOU dont pay for it so yes, for you it IS free

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Morssoe View Post
    Nothing to do with tokens. Allowing and defending this design is bad for the future cause blizz devs start to think its okey to slack on regular content and put their talent on shop.
    people said this when celestial steed came out, that was over a decade ago and it still not only didnt happen, we are not even a single step (well, maybe one step with transmog, but helmets were years ago too) closer...
    so if they keep this pace, maybe in year 2046 in expansion Wrath of burning warlords of pandaria it might happen, but until then its premature to think about it...

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Two things:
    1) Not all F2P games are P2W. "Good" F2P games are about "long grind vs instant purchase". More simple explanation - "if you're casual and don't have time or ability to grind it - then pay for it". And your "you can buy it for gold" - is exact "you should grind to buy it". And don't tell me, that gold is easy to earn. For me - it's not. And "if 10 people in the world can do it, than you can too" doesn't work here. What I try to say? That overall it's F2P mechanic. And that rises simple question. What does F2P mechanic do in P2P/B2P game?
    2) Whole reasoning behind paying sub fee back in old days was exactly "OUR GAME WILL NEVER HAVE F2P CRAP". So, if F2P crap is here, then may be sub fee should go away?

    And what is justification for this? Blizzard don't have enough money? Why? Because everything has become more expensive due to inflation? Wrong! Server maintenance is much more cheaper, than it was back in 2004. Blizzard were paying 100K a day (i.e. 3M per month) back in WotLK. And today we have 1$/month servers, i.e. almost every player can have his dedicated Wow server for that money. Because game isn't sold well? May be that's because they do it wrong? May be it's time to admit their mistakes and fix them? No? Why it's players, who have to pay for their problems?
    You know inflation covers more than just the server fees, right? It includes everything from corporate trips, Blizzcon, company trips, company training, marketing, development, to employee salary from the CEO down to the IT all the way to the lowly employee, and even covers how many times a toilet gets flushed.

    Now, I’m not stating which side I agree with, but at least have your argument include all possible angles before you make it.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    people said this when celestial steed came out, that was over a decade ago and it still not only didnt happen, we are not even a single step (well, maybe one step with transmog, but helmets were years ago too) closer...
    so if they keep this pace, maybe in year 2046 in expansion Wrath of burning warlords of pandaria it might happen, but until then its premature to think about it...
    That was just one thing, if you add all other designs to the equation it makes more sense.

  14. #114
    Pit Lord Magical Mudcrab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LanToaster View Post
    And nowhere in that article does it say that all the money made on the game has to flow back into said game.

    They say the that it usually does, but not have to. The thing is with a "Business Model" is that if you start a Corporation, you do not "Choose a Business Model", and use it as law. The first line says it all:
    Such incredible dishonesty.

    Quote Originally Posted by GaaS
    The idea of games as a service began with the introduction of massively multiplayer online games (MMOs) like World of Warcraft, where the game's subscription model approach assured continued revenues to the developer and publisher to create new content.
    ...
    Many massively multiplayer online games (MMOs) use monthly subscription models. Revenue from these subscriptions pay for the computer servers used to run the game, the people that manage and oversee the game on a daily basis, and the introduction of new content into the game.
    You literally cut the quote off just before it explicitly noted that GaaS is for continued payment in exchange for content development. It even goes on to specifically address the purpose of subscription models in games, which you have either failed to read or have ignored.

    I´m sorry, I was under the Impression you were arguing about a actual problem.

    If you think its not favorable to the consumer to sell stuff , and even give it away for Free as Promotional material, you have a Serious Problem.
    OK, so you simply do not have a valid response and are irritated because you don't understand the very basic difference between being Anti-Consumer and Anti-Consumerism. That's fine.

    I told you the Technical and actual Difference between a Content Patch, and an Expansion: Size, and Additional Cost.
    If you comprehend the difference in scope, then why did you consistently ask the question? This means you've either been intentionally non-constructive or you just simply could not comprehend the difference prior.

    From a Technical standpoint, an Expansion is a glorified Patch, that introduces new Content for which you have to pay.
    And if you say that you think Blizzard is not allowed to invest Subscription Money in Paid content, (Like Transmogs/Mounts), you should also on the same page say, that blizzard is not allowed to invest your subscription Money in paid expansions. Because, they are even though the "Size" is different, Paid Content, that they could just as well add into the base game, because you already pay for the active Development of the game.
    If you had understood what I had said, you would know that I was explicit that the expansion concept was controversial at the time, but the delineation between expansion and content patches has existed since Vanilla; it is now an accepted norm due to investment.

    Yea, you said it. I would gladly accept any kind of "Truth" from you, if you would say anything more than: "lalalaal, you dont know anything, I know it, therfore you are wrong, without anykind of backing"
    You reject what's being said because you don't understand it.
    You've failed to grasp what GaaS is, after having thought that WoW's subscription model was more analogous to something like Netflix, and then attempted to lie about what GaaS was by selectively omitting information.
    You then thought being anti-consumer was anti-consumerism, and then got angry that you were called out on being flagrantly ignorant, after which you attempted to deflect by making a silly statement which implied that thinking some practices are anti-consumer, then this must mean I believe all attempts to sell products are anti-consumer, belying your inability to grasp the difference.
    Sylvanas didn't even win the popular vote, she was elected by an indirect election of representatives. #NotMyWarchief

  15. #115
    my issue with the set is...

    I think would be better if I play more the game, doing things besides farming gold and keep subbed instead of farm gold to buy things.

    That´s the main issue with this kind of thing.

    It is a grind for item on both ways. One of them envolves enjoying the game so I keep paying my sub. Another envolves farming gold to buy things.

    Blizz is thinking only on the secound and not on the first.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Morssoe View Post
    That was just one thing, if you add all other designs to the equation it makes more sense.
    yeah, no fucking clue how you mean that...
    you said if people "support" shop model theyll start slacking on ingmae stuf, i said in over 10years of shop were not even geting closer to that, what "all other designs" you mean?
    Last edited by Lolites; 2020-10-24 at 05:47 AM.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Magical Mudcrab View Post
    Such incredible dishonesty.



    You literally cut the quote off just before it explicitly noted that GaaS is for continued payment in exchange for content development. It even goes on to specifically address the purpose of subscription models in games, which you have either failed to read or have ignored.



    OK, so you simply do not have a valid response and are irritated because you don't understand the very basic difference between being Anti-Consumer and Anti-Consumerism. That's fine.



    If you comprehend the difference in scope, then why did you consistently ask the question? This means you've either been intentionally non-constructive or you just simply could not comprehend the difference prior.



    If you had understood what I had said, you would know that I was explicit that the expansion concept was controversial at the time, but the delineation between expansion and content patches has existed since Vanilla; it is now an accepted norm due to investment.



    You reject what's being said because you don't understand it.
    You've failed to grasp what GaaS is, after having thought that WoW's subscription model was more analogous to something like Netflix, and then attempted to lie about what GaaS was by selectively omitting information.
    You then thought being anti-consumer was anti-consumerism, and then got angry that you were called out on being flagrantly ignorant, after which you attempted to deflect by making a silly statement which implied that thinking some practices are anti-consumer, then this must mean I believe all attempts to sell products are anti-consumer, belying your inability to grasp the difference.
    How can someone type so many words but not say anything except "I'm smarter than you!" After a witty remark you are supposed to supply evidence, not just move on to the next section.

    Basically like reading that NEXT! copypasta
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Except it would only be "textbook" confirmation bias if I fully believed that a third spec was actually coming.

  18. #118
    Pit Lord Magical Mudcrab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inoculate View Post
    How can someone type so many words but not say anything except "I'm smarter than you!" After a witty remark you are supposed to supply evidence, not just move on to the next section.

    Basically like reading that NEXT! copypasta
    If you had read the entire back-and-forth, which I'm doubting you did given your response, you would see that I have, repeatedly, linked sources for what I am saying. LanToaster would then, in response, creatively edit what those sources said in order to justify their position. This included things such as omitting sections of the GaaS article in order to conflate generic subscription services (such as Netflix) and GaaS. In other instances they attempted to engage in topics they did not understand, such as how they believed that anti-consumer actions and anti-consumerism were the same things, which they then attempted to hand-wave by saying that my drawing the distinction was a way in which to not engage with the actual problem, a problem which they did not understand to begin with.

    This was a consistent theme with LanToaster throughout the thread, wherein they would essentially misrepresent sources, make bad comparisons, and engage in using strawmen in order to deflect from misunderstandings they had.
    Sylvanas didn't even win the popular vote, she was elected by an indirect election of representatives. #NotMyWarchief

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    And if you are a decent player, you don't need to buy gear! The system works!

    - - - Updated - - -



    Woooosh - that's the conversation flying over your head. Read the OP. They want to make it "illegal" to discuss mtx if you have ever used them. You are wrong, but, thanks to freedom of speech, you are entitled to either admit you are wrong and apologize for misunderstanding the context of the discussion, or just double down and refuse to admit your mistake.
    Uh, a game developer can make it "illegal" to say whatever they want in their game. Illegal does not have to mean its against the "law". This is why games like football have "illegal motions" that are penalities.

    the term "illegal" has two parts to its definition. The first is what you're referring to, something being against law. The second part of the definition is this:

    Definition of illegal (Entry 1 of 2) (Merriam-Webster dictionary)
    : not according to or authorized by law : UNLAWFUL, ILLICIT
    also : not sanctioned by official rules (as of a game)

    And here is the definition from Dictionary.com:
    adjective
    forbidden by law or statute.
    contrary to or forbidden by official rules, regulations, etc.:
    The referee ruled that it was an illegal forward pass.


    Wow, they even used the near same example as me.

    So actually, you are in fact wrong, and now you've made yourself look like an idiot, as well.
    Last edited by Alcsaar; 2020-10-27 at 03:35 AM.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Alcsaar View Post
    Uh, a game developer can make it "illegal" to say whatever they want in their game. Illegal does not have to mean its against the "law". This is why games like football have "illegal motions" that are penalities.

    the term "illegal" has two parts to its definition. The first is what you're referring to, something being against law. The second part of the definition is this:

    Definition of illegal (Entry 1 of 2) (Merriam-Webster dictionary)
    : not according to or authorized by law : UNLAWFUL, ILLICIT
    also : not sanctioned by official rules (as of a game)

    And here is the definition from Dictionary.com:
    adjective
    forbidden by law or statute.
    contrary to or forbidden by official rules, regulations, etc.:
    The referee ruled that it was an illegal forward pass.


    Wow, they even used the near same example as me.

    So actually, you are in fact wrong, and now you've made yourself look like an idiot, as well.
    I think you are getting confused. An illegal move in a game is something that can't happen. Try making an illegal move in a chess game on a computer. You can't. Comparing RL illegal moves with gaming is completely.missi g the point. What you are getting confused with is cheating.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

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