Ret - too many combat abilities?

[Segus1992]

Yeah true.. But I did enjoy having the blessings. Now they added the auras to bring back old abilites and class fantasy, but removing the blessings all over is bad. The blessings didnt need to be super strong, but it was a nice flavour to the paladin class.

The auruas themself aint that cool anyway. I mean, we get a buff when someone in grp/raid dies? Whats that about? Mount speed is welcomed and cool I guess.

What im saying is that Blizzard said they wanted to return more to the RPG & class fantasy style. Removing blessings(and other buffs like HotW for Druids) aint helping on that.

Im rolling as a combat-holy Paladin and I love the role as a healer that supports with more than heals+can do OKish dps. Blessings just fits in.

Blessings are still a thing though, so the fantasy is still there - what we lost is the long duration blessings that require little thought to use and just provided passive group power to paladin.

I think all things considered I'd rather have the auras than raid blessings if I had to choose one, since the CD blessings remain.

- - - Updated - - -

If you want to be good in PvE, you can't go easy mode there, too. As much as you can slack in PvE via chosing "weak" talents, or not using all abilities, you can do it in PvP, too. So.. No, you don't NEED everything in PvP. It all depends on "if you want to be good..."

- - - Updated - - -



You played Afflock in prepatch yet? If you want to go for good dmg it's a really busy spec, way busier than ret (because all abilities have charges/cds)

If both specs choose all active talents, both have 13 buttons to press for DPS. So I was wrong, Ret doesn't have more - but neither does Affliction.

[Bloodyleech]

hink all things considered I'd rather have the auras than raid blessings if I had to choose one, since the CD blessings remain.

- - - Updated - - -



If both specs choose all active talents, both have 13 buttons to press for DPS. So I was wrong, Ret doesn't have more - but neither does Affliction.

Technically you are right, but you have a higher activity time as Afflock. Ret has one of the lower activity times, while aff has a 100% activity time with (if I'm not doing wrong maths) 40 actions per minutes, while paladin is below 35, depending on how many procs you can fish, so mostly below 30 apm. Both of them obviously with no haste in mind (1.5s gcd).
And this is all I said: Afflock is busier.

[Segus1992]

Technically you are right, but you have a higher activity time as Afflock. Ret has one of the lower activity times, while aff has a 100% activity time with (if I'm not doing wrong maths) 40 actions per minutes, while paladin is below 35, depending on how many procs you can fish, so mostly below 30 apm. Both of them obviously with no haste in mind (1.5s gcd).
And this is all I said: Afflock is busier.

Fair enough, I just assumed you were talking about the thread topic and didn't consider what you meant by 'busy'. If we're just talking "hard to play" in general, amount of buttons isn't really a good metric to go by anyway.

Again to be clear, I don't consider this thread topic to be a problem - I don't really like how WoW rotations in the modern game have been such that you can master them in under an hour. The game has also felt like you're stripped of utility just for the sake of it, so I in general approve of situations like this and Affliction.

[Schmilblick]

Go tell that to Enhance Shaman.

[Segus1992]

Go tell that to Enhance Shaman.

Literally has fewer. Enhancement has 12, with all active talents picked (Ret has 13).

[Loveliest]

Rather that, than say.. Demon Hunter

I had to create two more binds for my paladin and I'm starting to run out of places to put stuff on. Not sure what's up with DH - and if you think the dps one has few abilities, check the tank one, it has even less, it's like you can fit all your abilities on a single bar, spectral sight included.

[Varaben]

As long as the abilities are all different (they are) and the rotational abilities aren’t too many (they aren’t), it should be ok. As others have mentioned, taking passive talents is always an option, though I think the overarching belief is that activated abilities are better in most cases (except maybe Justicars Vengeance...). The trick is those complicate the rotation. I prefer proc based play and the simplicity is worth the RNG in some cases.

[Azzurri]

Hi,

Logged into the pre-patch just yesterday, and trying to get my head around all the new/returned abilities.
from a first glance it seems like there are shit loads of stuff now, too many:

1. Crusader strike
2. judgment
3. Templar's verdict
4. Blade of Justice
5. Hammer of Wrath
6. Wake of Ashes
7. Divine Storm
8. Consecration

and to that you can add from your talents:

1. Seraphim
2. Final Reckoning
3. Execution Sentence

I know that DS replaces TV on AOE scenarios, but if you take into consideration more talents and different abilities, it seems like a cluster freck?

thoughts?

I'll be honest, I know I'm in the minority, but I too like fewer spells, because I hate having to keybind them, lol. On my Druid I think I have like 35 to 40 something keybinds, that I use a lot, which to me is crazy, seeing Druids had probably the most to begin with before the unpruining.

As for Pally, this is how I bind my rotational and CDs for offense. I have an Logitech G600 MMO mouse, so the G9-G14 I have my rotational like Crusader, Wake, Blade of justice, judgement, Divine storm, Templars. Keybind 2 on my keyboard is Seraphin and 3 in cons, since I don't really use it much. Hammer of wrath is Q and Final rek is E, and Execution Sentence is Middle mouse button (push down) . I found this way it's easier to hit my abilites I'm using most often. Oh yea Avenging Wrath is bound to my mouse Scroll wheel down and scroll wheel up is something else.

I do have my utility and mobility (LOL) and other stuff bind to other things, but most important stuff is on my MMO mouse and buttons around my WSAD.

[Zergin8r]

I just use 1-6, qerty, fgh, zxcvbn and shift or ctrl modifiers as needed, that's 60 keybinds in a relatively small area.

[Philomene]

When it comes to PVP, you need EVERYTHING.

Hence why it's an issue with having too many buttons. You can't go "easy mode" if you want to be good in PVP.

Oh no! You actually have to learn how to manage your skill set if you want to be good! Such a shame.

[Super Kami Dende]

Hi,

Logged into the pre-patch just yesterday, and trying to get my head around all the new/returned abilities.
from a first glance it seems like there are shit loads of stuff now, too many:

1. Crusader strike
2. judgment
3. Templar's verdict
4. Blade of Justice
5. Hammer of Wrath
6. Wake of Ashes
7. Divine Storm
8. Consecration

and to that you can add from your talents:

1. Seraphim
2. Final Reckoning
3. Execution Sentence

I know that DS replaces TV on AOE scenarios, but if you take into consideration more talents and different abilities, it seems like a cluster freck?

thoughts?

Really? 11 Abilities is too much for you? I can't really say much that wouldn't just come off as insulting. So I'll just say perhaps you'd enjoy a different genre? maybe an ARPG or FPS?

[misterrium]

seems you never played a druid..

[jazen]

I miss the talent trees of BC and Wrath, where you could be as hybrid as you wanted to be.

[Justitiaxx]

Have you tested Alock? Rdruid?

Considering how the OP is talking about spec combact abilties in the Paladin class, a comparision between Rdruids and Affliction Warlocks is pointless, both of which have less abilties than Retribution, I have a 50 lock and a 50 druid so speaking from experience here. Now lets get back to talking about Paladins in the Paladin class forum.

Ta

[Faesroll]

play demon hunter if that's an issue

[roboscorcher]

Hi,

Logged into the pre-patch just yesterday, and trying to get my head around all the new/returned abilities.
from a first glance it seems like there are shit loads of stuff now, too many:

1. Crusader strike
2. judgment
3. Templar's verdict
4. Blade of Justice
5. Hammer of Wrath
6. Wake of Ashes
7. Divine Storm
8. Consecration

and to that you can add from your talents:

1. Seraphim
2. Final Reckoning
3. Execution Sentence

I know that DS replaces TV on AOE scenarios, but if you take into consideration more talents and different abilities, it seems like a cluster freck?

thoughts?

Might be easier to understand the DPS spells by breaking them down...

Holy Power Builders:

1. Crusader strike
2. judgment
3. Blade of Justice
4. Hammer of Wrath
5. Consecration (pretty much garbage, you don't need this on your bars)

Holy Power Spenders:

1. Templar's verdict
2. Divine Storm
3. Word of Glory
4. Seraphim (talent)
5. Execution Sentence (talent)

Other Regular CDs:

1. Shield of Vengeance
2. Wake of Ashes
3. Avenging Wrath
4. Final Reckoning (talent)
5. Holy Avenger (talent)

EDIT: If you don't take active talents: you have 4 builders, 3 spenders, and 3 CDs. 10 buttons, and 2 of those aren't really DPS buttons (Word of Glory and Shield of Vengeance). So really, the simple rotation is 8 buttons.

[Elkas]

I miss the talent trees of BC and Wrath, where you could be as hybrid as you wanted to be.

If you went hybrid you were severely gimping yourself, so it wasn't a real option.

[GreenJesus]

Off topic yes, BUT WHERE THE HELL ARE THE BLESSINGS? WHY REMOVE THEM?

Ret has Hand of Sacrifice back again, BoP, and Freedom right? What do you mean?

[Elkas]

Ret has Hand of Sacrifice back again, BoP, and Freedom right? What do you mean?

I guess his gameplay is ruined now that he can't cast blessing of kings on himself when he logs in, and then never fucking even think about it again for at least an hour.

[Deferionus]

Hi,

Logged into the pre-patch just yesterday, and trying to get my head around all the new/returned abilities.
from a first glance it seems like there are shit loads of stuff now, too many:

1. Crusader strike
2. judgment
3. Templar's verdict
4. Blade of Justice
5. Hammer of Wrath
6. Wake of Ashes
7. Divine Storm
8. Consecration

and to that you can add from your talents:

1. Seraphim
2. Final Reckoning
3. Execution Sentence

I know that DS replaces TV on AOE scenarios, but if you take into consideration more talents and different abilities, it seems like a cluster freck?

thoughts?

I miss having ~35 keybinds on my warlock. The large amount of abilities made it possible to stand out from the bad warlocks back in the day. I only counted 11 abilities for ret from your post, which honestly isn't much.