Faction development in Shadowlands

[ragon112]

Hi everyone!

I was wondering what datamining and the beta revealed about the directions the faction would be taking going forward, if anything?

I last played WoW during Legion and really enjoyed it, but I skipped BFA because I only play Horde and didn’t feel like playing the villains again.

In Shadowlands does it seem as if there will be more balance/ ‘moral greyness’ between the factions rather than the Horde just being evil and genocidal? Are there indications (beyond the old god whispers) that there will be Alliance conflict going forward since this has happened twice in the Horde so far? Does the Horde make any effort to ‘redeem’ itself?

Thanks!

[Thage]

Hopefully we don't see a single fucking hair of the factions as moving forces anywhere in Shadowlands's patch cycle. The further the story moves away from the trash fire that is the faction war treadmill-plot, the better off it typically is.

[Varodoc]

Blizzard already said that the Azerothian situation will not receive much spotlight during Shadowlands, because... well, because it's an expansion about the Shadowlands.

Regardless, Turalyon is now King of Stormwind and High King of the Alliance with the backing of the House of Nobles. Alleria Windrunner rules by his side. They both seek to protect the Alliance citizens and heal the faction after the bloody world war started by Sylvanas.

So far so good, except that there are some ominous signs that something terrible might take place in Stormwind, either during Shadowlands or 10.0. I believe the Vision of Stormwind, in which the dystopian city is shown ruled by a Void-corrupted Alleria and Turalyon lays dead, is much more than a mere vision, and actually serves as foreshadowing for a future conflict.

As well, there is the fact that, with the introduction of Xe'ra and the Void elves, the moral line between Light and Void has skewed, as we see Void users who seek to defend the world, while Light users who seek to dominate it. The Alliance reflects that duality, now more than ever, since as I said Turalyon and Alleria now rule Stormwind and the faction as a whole in Anduin's absence.

By the way, there's this popular whisper that some people think refers to Turalyon ---> "The golden one claims a vacant throne. The crown of light will bring only darkness"; I believe this whisper makes much more sense for Calia, since she is posed to claim the throne of Lordaeron, which is literally left vacant after Sylvanas abandoned it when she nuked the city.

For the Horde, I have no clue what's happening, I think Rokhan of all people rules Orgrimmar now and that's it (he doesn't even have a unique model haha). If you want juicy stuff, check on the Alliance side.

[Nerovar]

Turalyon after Shadowlands:

Stormwind has no king, Stormwind needs no king.

[keldarepewpew]

I just hope we dont see shit about factions, if i see one more mention of the faction war i might make an angry thread on mmoc.

[Xilurm]

I hope they take time during Shadowlands to "reset" the faction war. This shit's been going since Cata and it became a mess. The fact that they're just now calling the BFA part "the fourth war" is kinda ridiculous. Either call the whole thing the fourth war or the fifth if we assume there was a break after MoP.

[JustinJgh]

ITT

People who decided to play the monster faction. (Also the most popular faction by far)

Who are hurt because "we want be gud boiz"

Just take your blood elves to the Alliance and actually contribute in a good way to the game rather than continue to add useless bodies that is the dog pile horde faction.

[Flurryfang]

I think it is only good, that the factions get a break in shadowlands, cause that bonfire needs to settle down first before its touched again.

The factions just need a complete overhaul, with the BS that happen in BFA. Like, the leaders are poor characters right now, especially in the horde, and the theme of some races have changed completly over the last few years. Like, the Night elves and Forsaken needs a complete rework based upon the story. The trolls have no real leader, the forsaken have no real leader and the Goblins need a new leader since Gallywix pretty openly supported Sylvanas.
New characters need to be introduced to combat the personality famine, that the factions have now. BFA failed in creating more for WoW and just ended up taking even more.

So yeah, its good with Sl focusing on Shadowlands stuff. Maybe it will give them time to actually fix the stuff on Azeroth.

[Unlimited Power]

ITT

People who decided to play the monster faction. (Also the most popular faction by far)

Who are hurt because "we want be gud boiz"

Just take your blood elves to the Alliance and actually contribute in a good way to the game rather than continue to add useless bodies that is the dog pile horde faction.

The Horde was not the "evil" faction in vanilla, or frankly at any point up until Cataclysm.

It was built on Thrall's Horde which collaborated with Jaina's forces and the Night Elves to defend Hyjal from Archimonde's forces during WC3.

The orcs also rid themselves of demonic corruption by slaying Mannoroth.

Frankly the Horde was as much the good guys as the alliance, except for undead being the one outlier doing morally questionable things and hiding it from their allies.

Players didn't really have much of a choice in direction of the story or the Horde. Garrosh wasn't a player elected Warchief, nor was Vol'jin or Sylvanas.

You can't really fault players for continuing to play their characters no matter what heinous acts Blizzard decides the Horde must commit.

[Ardenaso]

The Horde was not the "evil" faction in vanilla, or frankly at any point up until Cataclysm.

It was built on Thrall's Horde which collaborated with Jaina's forces and the Night Elves to defend Hyjal from Archimonde's forces during WC3.

They orcs also rid themselves of demonic corruption by slaying Mannoroth.

Frankly the Horde was as much the good guys as the alliance, except for undead being the one outlier doing morally questionable things and hiding it from their allies.

Players didn't really have much of a choice in direction of the story or the Horde. Garrosh wasn't a player elected Warchief, nor was Vol'jin or Sylvanas.

You can't really fault players for continuing to play their characters no matter what heinous acts Blizzard decides the Horde must commit.

This. I even got the impression that the Horde was supposed be the "ugly on the outside but good on the inside" and vice versa to the Alliance as I played Warcraft 3

[Thage]

By the way, there's this popular whisper that some people think refers to Turalyon ---> "The golden one claims a vacant throne. The crown of light will bring only darkness"; I believe this whisper makes much more sense for Calia, since she is posed to claim the throne of Lordaeron, which is literally left vacant after Sylvanas abandoned it when she nuked the city.

Calia has repeatedly shot down the idea of re-establishing the Menethil monarchy in Lordaeron. She has zero interest in ruling the Forsaken and seems more poised to take a role as a spiritual leader for those who want to seek out the Light. Lillian is the interim leader, and it's very likely she'll end up in it for the long haul just because nobody else wants the job (a position Thrall finds himself in as the orcs' representative on the council and the reason Rokhan accepted being named Chieftain of the Darkspear).

For the Horde, I have no clue what's happening, I think Rokhan of all people rules Orgrimmar now and that's it (he doesn't even have a unique model haha). If you want juicy stuff, check on the Alliance side.

The Horde is led by a council now, and it seems Thrall has stepped up to lead the orcs until someone qualified for and interested in the job can be found, so by default he is likely Orgrimmar's leader, though Baine is the one hearing out issues from the Zandalari and Mag'har when the vulpera come by to offer their assistance, so it may be a matter of rotating among the council depending on who's available at the time.

[Mace]

This. I even got the impression that the Horde was supposed be the "ugly on the outside but good on the inside" and vice versa to the Alliance as I played Warcraft 3

Well, I'd say the horde rather were evil people being redeemed, while the alliance were just people, with capacity for both good and evil.

Appearnaec wise the horde was definitely the more monster types, which is fine for an RTS, but when you put I n a 2 faction game that requires balance, not many people are going to want to side with ugly monsters who've committed great crimes with little compelling things about htem.

Which is why the horde was greatly developed from TBC to Legion/BFA = and why they borrowed high elves and night elves to add some pretty to it's roster.. although I still feel they should have designed new unique races and made them attractive.

- - - Updated - - -

Hopefully we don't see a single fucking hair of the factions as moving forces anywhere in Shadowlands's patch cycle. The further the story moves away from the trash fire that is the faction war treadmill-plot, the better off it typically is.

And a big AMEN to that. Let's hope they get their writing together in time too.

[Sharnie786]

Am I missing something? The Horde have ALWAYS been the bad guys. If the Horde weren't given Blood Elves (an Alliance race) i don't think anyone would really play them.

Horde have always been the aggressor, they have always been unaccepting and have always been uncivilised. Isn't that the reason you picked them?

[rayvio]

there'll probably be a few biting comments as the Horde and Alliance NPCs grudgingly work together in Shadowlands and come to realise that they have much more in common than they thought while Jaina and Thrall roll their eyes and resist the "I told you so"s

[StationaryHawk]

ITT

People who decided to play the monster faction. (Also the most popular faction by far)

Who are hurt because "we want be gud boiz"

Just take your blood elves to the Alliance and actually contribute in a good way to the game rather than continue to add useless bodies that is the dog pile horde faction.

If they wanted Horde to be the "monster faction", they shouldn't have made their entire story "we want be gud boiz" in Warcraft 3.

[MikeBogina]

Am I missing something? The Horde have ALWAYS been the bad guys.

Horde have always been the aggressor

I hope you're kidding, please tell me you're kidding.
Since Thrall became Warchief, the Horde has rarely been the aggressor. Often times the Alliance throws sticks and stones and the Horde throws back boulders and the Horde gets the blame for what the Alliance started.

- - - Updated - - -

there'll probably be a few biting comments as the Horde and Alliance NPCs grudgingly work together in Shadowlands and come to realise that they have much more in common than they thought while Jaina and Thrall roll their eyes and resist the "I told you so"s

Like back on Warcraft 3 where these factions learned to work together, or back in WotLK where they learned to work together, or in MoP Isle of Thunder where they learned to work together or SoO where they learned to work together, or WoD where they learned to work together or in Legion where they learned to work together.

So many times!!! I feel like the same thing that happens to Pokemon's Ash Ketchum every 2 gens of him being reset and relearning the same things over is happening here(He goes from being dumb to smart over 2 gens, then gets reset for new audience)

[NorthernDragon]

ITT

People who decided to play the monster faction. (Also the most popular faction by far)

Who are hurt because "we want be gud boiz"

Just take your blood elves to the Alliance and actually contribute in a good way to the game rather than continue to add useless bodies that is the dog pile horde faction.

Tauren are evil?
Trolls are evil?
Pandaren are evil?

- - - Updated - - -

I hope you're kidding, please tell me you're kidding.
Since Thrall became Warchief, the Horde has rarely been the aggressor. Often times the Alliance throws sticks and stones and the Horde throws back boulders and the Horde gets the blame for what the Alliance started.

- - - Updated - - -



Like back on Warcraft 3 where these factions learned to work together, or back in WotLK where they learned to work together, or in MoP Isle of Thunder where they learned to work together or SoO where they learned to work together, or WoD where they learned to work together or in Legion where they learned to work together.

So many times!!! I feel like the same thing that happens to Pokemon's Ash Ketchum every 2 gens of him being reset and relearning the same things over is happening here(He goes from being dumb to smart over 2 gens, then gets reset for new audience)

This so much it's actually sad

[Aresk]

Am I missing something? The Horde have ALWAYS been the bad guys. If the Horde weren't given Blood Elves (an Alliance race) i don't think anyone would really play them.

Horde have always been the aggressor, they have always been unaccepting and have always been uncivilised. Isn't that the reason you picked them?

Horde were aggressors in WC and WC2:ToD. Alliance were aggressors in WC2:BtDP. Alliance were the initial aggressors in WC3:RoC, with Horde becoming the aggressors in Kalimdor. Then Night Elves were the aggressors in Ashenvale against both Horde and Alliance (listed here only because the NE join the Alliance later). Alliance were the aggressors in WC3:TFT.

Once we hit WoW, we don't really have as clearcut timelines of when things are happening. Did the dwarf aggression against tauren happen before or after the Warsong aggression against the Sentinels? What about the dwarven aggression against the orcs? Does it matter? Does the eradication of an entire tribe of tauren merit the destruction of Theramore?

As for why I picked Horde, I picked them because they were honorable beings that a more Eurocentric society saw as monsters. It was something I could relate to. I didn't pick them to massacre Teldrassil or try to harvest weapons of mass destruction. Those plots came about later.

I picked Alliance because I wanted to play a character that revered nature and tried to live in harmony (Night Elf), not ones that despoiled the landscape (Gnome) or invaded other territories in the name of historical research (Dwarf). Then Horde became even worse offenders of natural harmony in Cata with the introduction of goblins, so now there's just no good faction choice for that fantasy.

[iscalio]

Regardless, Turalyon is now King of Stormwind and High King of the Alliance with the backing of the House of Nobles.

Turalyon is not King of Stormwind. He is "regent and protector of the realm", and the high commander of the military forces of the Alliance (as you can hear here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p72MWCghJww). But he is not King, High or otherwise. Anduin is the King, although in absentia. Your claim is false.

[bagina]

Playing the bad guy is fine, just don't make the game judge the players and paint one side as right and one side as wrong. Don't call things good or evil. Don't be biased. Like in japanese folktales. Let the players make their own judgement.