Spoilers: Anduin's captivity

[Cherry123]

Anduin is an agenda not a character and I don't believe he can be interesting, he is passive weak and dumb.

[Zmagoslav]

Just a theory but I believe he will sacrifice himself to bring his father back.

What could his father possibly offer at this point to be relevant to the story?
I don't think Anduin is emotional and stupid enough to sacrifice himself for a disenchanted warrior...

[Dartz1979]

I don't really care what happens to andruin so as long as my jaina waifu isnt lost forever or worse

[LemonDemonGirl]

What if, over the course of the expansion, we the players get corrupted by death, leading us to fight Anduin. At which point he easily wipes the floor with us and then forgives us our sins, redeeming us.

Its worth doing just to the taste the tears from all the teenage boys and man children that inhabit the forums that are so unsure of their own masculinity that they feel threatened when a fictional male character is portrayed as be anything other than "ME BIG MAN, ME SMASH, RAWWWRRRR".

So basically a raid where our characters would die, and be brought back? Like the Lich King/Argus ones?

[AlmightyGerkin]

Wait... they are calling the player "Maw Walker"? God that's bad. I just assumed you'd be called something related to your covenant like in legion you were the "DEATHLORD" or whatever title your class got.

Don't have titles for Kyrian or the other covenants. Also it's been stated for awhile now that we;re called Maw Walker due to the fact that the player aka you can easily escape the Maw were it says nothing ever escapes that cursed place.

[BaumanKing]

Anduin is strong in the Light? He is just a boy tho. What about Velen, Turalyon or Liadrin?

[Hyeonh]

Blech, the writing is getting worst with each expansion now. It definitely peaked at legion. This is basically fan fiction writings that's steadily approaching "My Immortal" levels of writing. Whoever is in charge needs a reminder that they should not pull a JJ Abrams. The title Maw Walker is very stupid, our old legion titles would be better but that'd be too much work for the current Blizzard.

[shadowmatrix]

I wanted Alleria and Turalyon but this is fine I guess

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on topic: why do I feel like Anduin is being set up as Arthas 2.0 ?

Arthas was a arrogant prince who let his pride drive him down a path of revenge, we have not seen that from Anduin. Anduin seems like the opposite of Arthas in most ways.

[TrueHorde]

Thrall:We will find Anduin,and bring him HOME...

So after Sadfang died, Thrall became Anduin's new bitch?

[Super Dickmann]

Do we have to rescue Anduin as a horde character? WHy doesn't blizzard understand that players don't give a shit or are antagonistic towards NPC's from the other faction? How many times does this shit have to happen?

The whole point of the exercise that was BFA was to tell you that there's world heroes regardless of faction and you need to follow and like them. It's why despite there being no material Horde-side htat'd make you give a shit about Jaina it's still considered self-evident that you'd want to help her five minutes after she's been a raid boss. They want you to like Anduin and god help them they'll keep pushing him until you do or until the writing team changes.

Why the fuck Green Jesus cares about Anduin considering he and Anduin have spoken once in their entire tenure is beyond me.

Ditto, as @Vakir says, the only parallels between Anduin and Arthas are visual. Despite what Shadowlands will likely go out of its way to say in its attempts to make Arthas a victim of circumstance the reason his fall narrative works is because of his personal failings which lead him down a path that could've been avoided, making some justifiable and other unjustifiable decisions on the way. Anduin being tortured into turning bad is incomparable. It's also predestined to be boring because all we know he'll snap out of it and stay a good boy.

[Ehrenpanzer]

I wanted Alleria and Turalyon but this is fine I guess

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on topic: why do I feel like Anduin is being set up as Arthas 2.0 ?

Yeah right... like Blizz is going to make their ultra super obviously Mary Sue golden boy into an evil character. That would require competent writers and a complex storyline, both of which have been in short supply for Blizzard for a long time. The only Alliance character I could reasonably see going off the deep end is Tyrande, fueled by vengeance, something something convenient plot device, new Lich Queen.

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Anduin is strong in the Light? He is just a boy tho. What about Velen, Turalyon or Liadrin?

What ISNT he strong in these days.. trained priest, can wear full plate somehow, skills of a seasoned warrior for melee battles, can cast mass rez on an entire battlefield in mid combat, has thicker plot armor then an Abrams tank...

[tommyhil622]

While I'm sure many would REALLY appreciate Anduin taking a turn down the dark side - I don't see it happening.

I see them using this to SEPARATE Anduin from Arthas. No doubt the INTENT is to make a parallel to Sylvanas corrupting Anduin the same way Ner'zhul corrupted Arthas - But Anduin is their poster child for the "good boy." He won't turn, unlike Arthas who already had some questionable actions built into his backstory which they were allowed to exploit for turning him evil.

If anything, this will be what destroys Sylvanas' entire plot, and that's what's disappointing. Sylvanas will question how it is that Anduin can still stand in defiance of her, despite all that he has seen, experienced, and knows - And he will defy her, because he's not a selfish asshat like she and Arthas were. And in that defiance will be where Sylvanas realizes she failed, she believed the rest of the world monsters like her, and that is where she has always been wrong.

In this expansion, they have a big set of ideals on their plate: They have to redeem Arthas, without redeeming the Lich King. They need to show that Sylvanas' actions were wrong, but still make people believe the goal she had was at least understandable. They have to maintain this idea that Anduin is Sylvanas' greatest weapon (He is - If he were to be turned to hopelessness, nobody on Azeroth could be safe from being turned.) while simultaneously making Anduin her greatest threat. (Because it is his hopeless optimism that keeps people believing in hope.)

Doing all of this is not going to be easy, and it's going to be disappointing, because it ultimately changes absolutely nothing.

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At the very least, Velen himself has admit that he is not as powerful in the Light as Anduin. Turalyon and Liadrin have never DIRECTLY said so, but Liadrin at least has never been hinted to be incredibly strong with the Light, just a really good commander.

Turalyon is the only one who might be a rival for him, and that says a lot about what the story has written for Anduin. Age =/= Power.

I agree that more than likely Anduin will prevail where Arthas could not but quite frankly im ok with that. I think the whole corruption thing is getting old. But i wonder if there some sort of play here that doesn't lead into them trying to actually corrupt him. What if its a play to get the light to intervene and the Jailer gains something out of it. Or the efforts wasted to rescue him gives something to the Jailer etc. At this point in the beta i had the impression that the Jailer is aware of Bolvar peering into the Maw. Hes certainly aware of the "maw walker"s activity within the maw and Torghast. Idk maybe things aren't as obvious as they seem.

[Soon-TM]

So after Sadfang died, Thrall became Anduin's new bitch?

And here I was thinking that Anduin's new official wh0re was that dumbass cow.

[tommyhil622]

Arthas was "aware" of our heroes in Wrath, to the point of having a plan to use us to his advantage, which ultimately failed.

Garrosh was "aware" of our heroes in MoP - He had one of his generals attempt to assassinate us when we weren't going to help him assassinate Vol'jin.

Gul'dan was "aware" of our heroes in both WoD and Legion - We'd been trying to stop him multiple times throughout both.

Sylvanas is "aware" of our heroes in BFA, to the point of trusting/attempting to trust us with tasks that she knew would reveal if we were supporting/against her.

Being "aware" of us, does not mean we are a part of the plan. It means they know we are a potential threat to the plan.

Yea i get being aware doesn't guarantee anything. But that's just part of what i was saying. Gul'dan/Garrosh/Slyvannas aren't the Jailer. Arthas was a really bad counter-example because he purposely allowed us to do what we did because he intended to use us as champions of the Scourge, he wasn't counting on Ashbringer breaking frostmourne and a disembodied king raising the heroes he killed. They didn't have total control of the regions they were affecting nor was nearly as powerful. Not sure if that applies there, as opposed to the Jailer who literally has almost absolute control of the realm.

And him being aware can cause him to "Adjust" his plans accordingly and use it to his own advantage.

[tommyhil622]

It's not a bad example. In fact, it's the best example, because it shows that expecting us to be a threat, doesn't suddenly mean they're aware of everything we do at all times, nor does it mean we've failed. It shows that even IF they plan to do something with us, they WILL fail, because our characters are plot-immune. We have to survive to the next expansion. ANY plot which details us dying/being used for evil, WILL fail due to that.

It's not a good example because his plan was to allow us to go to icc. It has nothing to do with being aware. It's actually countering what you're trying to say. Him losing at the end isn't an example of awareness failing.

The Jailer has almost no power over the Shadowlands. He only has power in the Maw, which we've explicitly seen the limits of (what with him only being able to make us less effective over time), and we are actively and constantly taking precautions as to not allow the Jailer to abuse.

That's actually not true. He's influencing everything in the shadowlands. He's the reason for the anima drought. Every realm is assailed in the shadowlands because of him directly. Curious have you played the beta?

And this still doesn't mean he's suddenly going to take hold of us and use us for whatever he wants.

Your current theory relies entirely on supposition, that there is some sort of plan for us that we do not know exists. For all we know, the Jailer is yet another god-like being that just sees Mortals as Mortals, and calling us "Maw-walkers" doesn't really change that. At all.

I'm aware it's a theory, and i can only theorize what will happen because they haven't allowed us in the beta to know the continuation of the storyline (anduin).

But that's the point of the thread to try to figure out what's the end goal. Anything can happen i was just wondering what could happen and what all that dialogue meant. For all we know the cut scene will bring a different context to the textual exchange.

[tommyhil622]

Except it is, because he was AWARE of everything we were doing, up to and including coming to fight him and kill all of his lieutenants. Arthas was completely aware of all of this, throughout all of Northrend. And yet despite this, despite being aware of our strengths, despite planning and in fact succeeding at killing each and every player character by the end of his fight - He still lost. His awareness didn't avail him anything. Hell, even him one shotting literally all of us did not allow him to win, or succeed. Despite all that he WAS aware of, he was UNAWARE of a singular thing - How strong the Light would allow Tirion to be. And that screwed him, royally, no matter how strong or how much planning or awareness Arthas had.



We know how the Shadowlands expansion plays out you fool. His agents are attacking the Shadowlands. He does not have power over the Shadowlands, because he can't leave the Maw - The machine of death being broken is what is responsible for the Anima drought, it has nothing to do with him. The Shadowlands are being assailed by his agents due to the machine of death being broken, and agents of the Maw being capable of spilling out into the Shadowlands. The Jailer, as in he himself, not his army, only has power in the Maw.

I have the beta, but have chosen not to play it because I know I do not plan to play the expansion, because frankly, it looks like shit.



Yes, but what you aren't recognizing is that your theory has no supporting evidence. Your theory is a hypothesis with no support. It's basically a guess at best.

You need more than "I think this will happen" to make a theory.

So you have the beta but haven't played it. Makes sense now.

[tommyhil622]

Then I apologize for misunderstanding, but your wording made it easy to do so, as I pointed out.

Now again:

Yea i don't get the wording part but sure ok.

Your statement saying the Jailer has no power in the shadowlands is extremely wrong.

Every corner of the shadowlands is being attacked by the Jailer in some form.

Every realm is suffering from the anima drought, has attacks from forces now controlled by the jailer. As you know the Maw is also part of the shadowlands so even in the sense that he's trapped there (in the maw) would negate the statement "he has no power in the shadowlands".

Arthas, Garrosh, Slyvannas, did not have the control and influence that the Jailer has in the shadowlands. Arthas barely controlled Northrend, Guldan had almost no control in Dreanor but in Tanaan, Slyvannas only had control of the Horde regions and the contested parts in Azeroth and Garrosh in a similar fasion. Just a different animal.

The theory i mentioned it's not something i'm liked sold on, it's just guessing, there's no need to debunk or piece apart lol, so this aggressive attack on it seems unnecessary. I rather hear your view as to what you think is happening based on what we see from the interactions.

There's other reasons for me leaning to the possibility for some sort of bait and switch but i have to gather the interactions.

Anyway there's a constant back and forth with Bovlar and he keeps on dropping hints and clues as you rescue Baine, Jaina, Thrall etc.. that give me the impression that there's more to the whole Anduin thing being just hey lets make him into an Arthas. But given blizz's track record i wouldn't be surprised if there isn't one.

[Alanar]

Probably gonna end up having to beat his ass in a raid due to him being mced or some shit.
Maybe he will come out of this having ptsd From all the torture.

And with that ptsd he will fail to fight it and get into some weirs state and fuel himself with shadow energy.

I am all for it.

[Aucald]

This argument is taking up all the real estate in the thread and has reached the point where you both either need to drop it, or take it to PM's. Either way, give some space for other people to have their say.

[MikeBogina]

Do we have to rescue Anduin as a horde character? WHy doesn't blizzard understand that players don't give a shit or are antagonistic towards NPC's from the other faction? How many times does this shit have to happen?

Gotta keep in mind that when there's no faction conflict, we're basically playing a single faction/player game that's done mostly from the Alliance PoV.

I made jokes in the beginning of BFA that the conflict is going to end with Sylvanas as the baddy and Anduin getting his multi race council of friends, horde and Alliance and we'd have to work for him. And now we have Anduin going to be the last one freed and everyone here is going to try their hardest to save the main character!

Aren't you glad that you picked the Red Alliance faction