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  1. #41
    Stood in the Fire Vrinara's Avatar
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    Oh boy, incoming the crybabies! Quick let me grab my popcorn! They should just quest. It's much better now lol

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by kaelix1 View Post
    From what I see with the interviews the owner did with Azmogold (he might change his plans by now) I feel his trying to create a complicated system that sound so good on paper but it will fail miserable in-game, players will always chose the fastest and easy path no matter what, i really really hope AOC will be a hit as Activision need a wakeup call and let gaming and the decisions be made by developers not the damn RP team
    Players will do that, yes. That's why they have to get it right. There should be multiple best options which are interesting - Like max gold farm, max pve dps, max pvp dps, best spellcaster and so on with reasonable balance. If options are shallow and stupid it will won't fly as soon as people are done with questing and nodes one one char.

  3. #43
    I think the big thing here is that, making an assumption of course, that Blizzard was fine with this the way it was over the years. With Shadowlands, however, that changed because of the level squish and how much faster it is to level now. The faster leveling was done by Blizzard, obviously. I think the issue they (Blizzard) has with it is that it was unintended to stay this way going forward due to the faster leveling speed. So, they probably meant to change it, or even more possible that it was an oversight, and now they are fixing it because of how much faster it has become.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler to Baby Sloths View Post
    What this does is make questing and queueing normally for dungeons (i.e. running them with the intended group size) more attractive in terms of experience points per unit time. Certainly more RPG-ish than walking ~50m behind somebody who's soloing the dungeon for you.
    That is taking away a choice we had before they tried to force people into their slots, if I want to level a friend fast I should have that option to do that. Freedom is more important than slightly making ques faster.
    Super Mario Maker 2: Maker ID 8B7-CTF-NMG

    - Sire Denathrius confirmed to have created the Dreadlords.

  5. #45
    Brewmaster
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    Developers' notes: This standardized experience value is equal to what the leveling player would have previously earned in a 5-person party. Dungeon experience was tuned around the expectation of full parties, and we saw that taplist loopholes in combination with pre-patch changes to dungeon scaling revealed some extreme leveling tactics by fewer than 5 players. We want dungeons to remain lucrative, and to be a valid alternative to questing and other experience sources, rather than to overshadow them.
    Wait what?? When did this happen? This is the 1st time that I hear about this. Also, good on blizzard to fix this, I really dislike when players find these "loopholes" to bypass/speed up parts of the game.

  6. #46
    Stealthed Defender unbound's Avatar
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    A better fix would be for Blizz to make dungeons feel like an actual experience. The reason they had to put in this "fix" is because dungeons are so trivial that several specs can solo them...which is not what dungeons are supposed to be.

    Please stop encouraging speed runs, and start encouraging challenge that requires players to communicate and cooperate. After all, that is what a fantasy-based RPG is supposed to be about.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    That is taking away a choice we had before they tried to force people into their slots, if I want to level a friend fast I should have that option to do that. Freedom is more important than slightly making ques faster.
    Barring out right exploits. I'm always amazed at people who are pro taking away options and making their way the only way. I imagine some of it comes from jealously. I can't do it, so I don't want anyone else to be able to either.

    I'm pro options. If someone want to run someone through various dungeons 50 times instead of leveling that is their business, doesn't affect me.

    Quote Originally Posted by unbound View Post
    Please stop encouraging speed runs, and start encouraging challenge that requires players to communicate and cooperate. After all, that is what a fantasy-based RPG is supposed to be about.
    Sorry the 2004 way of playing is gone. Everyone knows at this stage in the game's life, that leveling is not where the action is and is just a mandatory obstacle that most would rather skip. Again, I'm pro options, so if people want to level make leveling as fun as possible, but for those that want to power through it, let them do that as well
    Last edited by Mad_Murdock; 2020-10-27 at 03:07 PM.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by vitor210 View Post
    Wait what?? When did this happen? This is the 1st time that I hear about this. Also, good on blizzard to fix this, I really dislike when players find these "loopholes" to bypass/speed up parts of the game.
    yeah like buying a boost for $60

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    This is why I am glad Ashes of Creation is staring to look very good, everything the WoW devs have been doing to remove player agency over the years is making WoW less of an RPG and more of a Diablo lol.

    Do you think that if a Freehold version of experience exploitation was discovered in AOC that the developers wouldn't stop it? In a game where the leveling process is supposed to harken back to when leveling took time and effort? Yeah, I think they would not be to keen if players were able to completely circumvent that entire process...

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Sfr528 View Post
    Do you think that if a Freehold version of experience exploitation was discovered in AOC that the developers wouldn't stop it? In a game where the leveling process is supposed to harken back to when leveling took time and effort? Yeah, I think they would not be to keen if players were able to completely circumvent that entire process...
    Problem is it was in the game for many years before until Legion I believe and they removed being able to run people through dungeons for XP, it should never have been removed in the first place. So it really wasn't an exploit per-say but something that wanted to exist and that already existed in the game for over a decade until they nixed it to remove choice.
    Super Mario Maker 2: Maker ID 8B7-CTF-NMG

    - Sire Denathrius confirmed to have created the Dreadlords.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Mad_Murdock View Post
    Sorry the 2004 way of playing is gone. Everyone knows at this stage in the game's life, that leveling is not where the action is and is just a mandatory obstacle that most would rather skip. Again, I'm pro options, so if people want to level make leveling as fun as possible, but for those that want to power through it, let them do that as well
    Pretty sure they just eant dungeons to be challenging in general, has nothing to do with leveling and I echo their sentiment. I wish dungeons weren't a thing people wanted to rush through, cata (launch) had the perfect difficulty for heroics imo. Gave you a challenge and required some teamwork not just having to know the route and gogogogogo.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Inoculate View Post
    Pretty sure they just eant dungeons to be challenging in general, has nothing to do with leveling and I echo their sentiment. I wish dungeons weren't a thing people wanted to rush through, cata (launch) had the perfect difficulty for heroics imo. Gave you a challenge and required some teamwork not just having to know the route and gogogogogo.
    The GoGoGo meme has been around how long? I didn't mind the early cata dungeons other than the horrible long ques at times, but it seems clear that it's just not the player base's desire anymore. I think Blizz made it worse with the Challenge mode\ Mythic+ time runs. Everyone is trained even more for go go go. I don't think we'll even see a return to marking targets and using CC in dungeons

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by SinR View Post
    "You will play how we say you must play."

    Final nail in the Boosting coffin?
    Wow, what a genius argument 10/10. What is next? "We have to follow the law"?

    In what world should afk-ing being the far superior leveling option? Obviously you want to nerf the afk leveling method that is 5-10x faster than normal leveling, where you like acutally do stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    This change was alot more important than getting shadowlands released.

    I approve of blizzards choice of resource allocation.

    Who cares about shadowlands when you can spend time tweaking leveling wich is the most important part of wow and always has been. /s
    What? Are you seriously complaining about them nerfing afk leveling, so that it's not like 10x faster than normal leveling?

    Aphrel: The game is bugged
    Blizzard: We are delaying the xpac
    ...
    Blizzard: Fixes a bug.
    Aphrel: Surprised Pikachu face.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    I didn't say they said it was a bug. I said they would claim it if people started asking. They have done it before on things things that were in the game for years and then they decided they didn't like it anymore and when people asked they said it was a bug. I don't remember the most recent incident, just that it caused a lot of uproar.



    Your statement has a lot of assumptions in it. First, yes people knew this is how dungeons worked were XP adjusted based on amount of players. No, no one knew it wasn't intended. Why? It has been in the game since Classic. So when something like this is in the game and in it for ~15 years then people are going to figure that is the way it is meant to be. Had this happened in the pre-patch only then I could agree with you more on people knowing this isn't intended.

    Secondly, you say this isn't the "normal" way to play the game for 15 years. Who is to say what is normal? Something that doesn't go with what you want it to be? If that is the case then we should have Blizzard nerf all the methods people have decided to level over the years because it isn't normal. Here's a small list, as I am sure there are ones I don't know.

    People who level in "non-normal" ways, if we assume and can be wrong, that you mean questing/dungeoning:
    • People who level with Pet Battles only
    • People who herb, mine or both only to level
    • People who do not pick a faction on Panda's
    • People who do Ironman challenge
    • People who level without talents
    • People who let a max level kill everything while they get quest credit

    The list could go on and on. Does that mean all the above's exploits? Does it mean they are normal? Does it mean they are non-normal? The thing is there isn't a "normal" way to level, because who is qualified enough to say what is normal? The point here is there are so many ways you can do different things, why take away options from others because it doesn't fit your view of "normal"?



    Do you have sources on this? I tried googling and didn't find anything that fit even close to what you are describing. It's possible it existed, but I see nothing supporting your statement. As I mentioned above, boosting like this has always been in the game and people have not been banned.



    I understand you are fine with the change and that is fine, however, you can't call something an exploit if it has been in the game from the beginning and has been allowed to work. If it was an unintended thing or exploit it would've been fixed a lot sooner, such as the cases with how tagging works when people were speed leveling to world first. This was a method that was used especially a lot when RaF had 300% XP boost.

    One thing that people are forgetting is the people who want to say leveling is fast are utilizing time metrics and going with "Well it only takes X hours". That would be fine in an ideal setting where things were constantly different. The thing is many people have leveled multiple characters through each expansion and on both factions so they've seen pretty much all the story. At this point it is nothing more than just a timewasting chore. Does something really matter if it takes 10 hours if it is something you've done more times than you care to count.

    I always wished Blizzard would implement a shirt, more on this later, that stacked once you hit say 9-12 characters (9 for original amount of classes; 12 for current) and added for instance a 5 or 10% XP boost per toon. This way those who level casually, very few toons, wouldn't be affected and those who level alts, or need multiple alts for whatever reason, could level faster and by including it on a shirt slot this would allow people to take it off if they want to. A tabard would affect those who wanted to get rep with guild/factions while leveling. The main complaint about heirlooms were that the gear scaled, which makes it ideal for people, but allowed no option to be removed. So if it was baked into a shirt slot then it is something you can remove without hindering anything else about your character and it can easily be hidden as well.
    In regards to this "Do you have sources on this? I tried googling and didn't find anything that fit even close to what you are describing. It's possible it existed, but I see nothing supporting your statement. As I mentioned above, boosting like this has always been in the game and people have not been banned."

    It was specifically Athene.

    https://wcreplays.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106539

    https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards...craft/46659730
    If you're wondering what the exploit was:

    Go watch the video on youtube. Basically he tagged mobs in an instance and had 4 other dudes basically steamroll through the mobs. Lot of people are upset but who cares if one dude gets 80 quickly? It is still after all is said and done...just a game.

    More specifically, he leaves the group, tags the mob, they help him burn it down, then he rejoins the group before he auto-hearths.

    That was a common way to level in BC and WotLK for World Firsts, but Athene took it to the extreme in a dungeon.

    The first BC world first basically had his entire guild killing mobs that he tagged (but in the open world, not in a dungeon).

    "Well at first we had only five (during the first 10 hours or so) so that 10 of the members could get to lvl 62. Then in the morning we were 15 in order to kill the mobs at a faster rate. Finally in the evening, everyone was involved and we could gather a 35 man raid to help me in Netherstorm with our new lvl 62 doing most of the job."

    https://www.videogamer.com/news/fren...70-in-28-hours

    I'm not sure about the WotLK world first.

    Part of the problem was that the formula changed. I believe the formula before used to take into account the average level of the group, so if a 120 was boosting a level 20 it wasn't nearly as lucrative because of the difference in levels.

    Compare this to WoW Classic, if a 60 is boosting a level 8 (earliest level available to go through RFC) they're better off inviting multiple level 8s. This lowers the average group level so the 8s get more experience.

    I believe this was removed with the revamp so the carried character always got the maximum amount of normalized experience.

    The intention wasn't that people got exp / 2 while being boosted as compared to exp / 5 (the intention).

    The reason for this is that with everything scaling differently, the exp per hour of getting carried through a dungeon was drastically higher than intended.

    Also, you can still get boosted through a dungeon, you'll just need 2.5x as many dungeons as before. This may shift boosting from Freehold to Island Expeditions.

    The reality of this change is the following: The previous cost per level is now divided by how many levelers are in the group. For example if 10 to 20 was 5k per level, now it's 5k per level / boostees in a group.
    Last edited by SteveZaer; 2020-10-27 at 04:10 PM.

  15. #55
    Maybe people who have been playing for a while are now completely sick of leveling the same SHIT OVER AND OVER and just want to hit max level where it matters. This was done purely to make people waste more time or spend $$$$ yet the white knights here are defending this stupid change.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad_Murdock View Post
    Barring out right exploits. I'm always amazed at people who are pro taking away options and making their way the only way. I imagine some of it comes from jealously. I can't do it, so I don't want anyone else to be able to either.

    I'm pro options. If someone want to run someone through various dungeons 50 times instead of leveling that is their business, doesn't affect me.


    Sorry the 2004 way of playing is gone. Everyone knows at this stage in the game's life, that leveling is not where the action is and is just a mandatory obstacle that most would rather skip. Again, I'm pro options, so if people want to level make leveling as fun as possible, but for those that want to power through it, let them do that as well
    Yep i don't understand why they want less options but then again people are fucking stupid and enjoy being a blind sheep.


    (I wonder how long before those knights get me banned again for calling out the truth)
    Last edited by opposing critter; 2020-10-27 at 04:36 PM. Reason: Words

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveZaer View Post
    In regards to this "Do you have sources on this? I tried googling and didn't find anything that fit even close to what you are describing. It's possible it existed, but I see nothing supporting your statement. As I mentioned above, boosting like this has always been in the game and people have not been banned."
    Heads up, it is infinitely easier to just quote the part you want to respond to, not the whole thing. Reading the post at first I thought you were responding to me with that, not quoting me.

    I was flipping through those and only found people commenting about it, but no "news" about it. I'm trying to find a firsthand source about it that actually shows the event happening to understand why, and this is not me saying you are wrong by any means. It is just harder to see the whole picture of what is happening vs people putting in snippets of a picture that can be skewed. I remember that particular event as GM's told him it was fine and wasn't a bannable offense and then he was banned. There was some controversy over it and I believe he was unbanned, not sure and would need source. If he was unbanned then it sounds like something Blizzard did just so he wouldn't hit World First this way, but again need more firsthand information rather than comments from people.

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveZaer View Post
    If you're wondering what the exploit was:

    Go watch the video on youtube. Basically he tagged mobs in an instance and had 4 other dudes basically steamroll through the mobs. Lot of people are upset but who cares if one dude gets 80 quickly? It is still after all is said and done...just a game.
    This tells me nothing since it is just a copy/paste from a forum post.

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveZaer View Post
    That was a common way to level in BC and WotLK for World Firsts, but Athene took it to the extreme in a dungeon.
    This is what I'm trying to find more information of and videos, if possible, rather than just others comment.

    [QUOTE=SteveZaer;52757514]The first BC world first basically had his entire guild killing mobs that he tagged (but in the open world, not in a dungeon).

    Yeah, I know this was a popular method and they adjusted the XP formula over time. The problem with mob tagging is that it really can't be bannable otherwise they'd have to ban people who tag a rare on WQ's and such and let others kill it or when people are questing and need X mobs and hit something while someone else kills it.

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveZaer View Post
    I believe this was removed with the revamp so the carried character always got the maximum amount of normalized experience.
    By revamp I'm guessing you mean Cataclysm? If so, it was still there to an effect. You could see the difference between XP with and without a higher level toon in there. I believed they change the formula to something if you were ≤ 10 levels of the other person in the group. If you were higher you got less.

    Which never been an issue, but the problem came about when they squished levels. This put us at level 50 and the mobs in the dungeon cap out of 50, if you were Freehold boosting. This meant that the level variance was 0 and even in Shadowlands it would be 10. So the toon was more apt to get the full experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveZaer View Post
    The intention wasn't that people got exp / 2 while being boosted as compared to exp / 5 (the intention).
    That's the thing though. The exp/group members was always the intention, it's just that with the level squished it brought the level variances down to where they wouldn't get reduced xp.

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveZaer View Post
    The reason for this is that with everything scaling differently, the exp per hour of getting carried through a dungeon was drastically higher than intended.
    Yet it has been this way for awhile. The thing is they are looking at things from a jaded angle of "We don't like this, nerf it" aspect. They should be looking and figuring out why are people doing this. There's the obvious answer of "Least resistance path / fast route". Now I'm not saying people found this exactly fun by any means. Were there any? It's possible. Either way there are a ton of answers, such as wanting to some other way to quickly level because they've seen all the content, some wish a "Shirt" idea I mentioned before be implemented for example. Yeah there is the option of buying a level boost, but in all honesty most dislike the idea of them for various reasons.

    While they revamped leveling there are still plenty of flaws with it. They should've done something that would've evened out the playing field on time spent. For instance, those choosing BC/Wrath get "punished" over the other expansions. These are some of the flaws they should look at rather than nerf any viable route done by people.

    They could've done something more with dungeons because as it stands right now once you do the quest after that it is a poor amount of xp/hr, which could also be fixed by pooling every single dungeon together and making the bag selectable, for those who want certain ones. They could've made it so the quests after doing them are dailies or repeatable each time you go in at half xp. Another thing I am surprised they didn't do is bring the MoP Random Scenario / Random Heroic Scenario queue system (where you got the crate) back and used it as an alternative for dungeons.

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveZaer View Post
    Also, you can still get boosted through a dungeon, you'll just need 2.5x as many dungeons as before. This may shift boosting from Freehold to Island Expeditions.
    I wouldn't be surprised to see Islands nerfed by stating XP earned is now determined by a group of 5 instead of designed groups (3) and then this applied to every aspect of the game.

  17. #57
    So what is this about? Will it ruin freehold boosting runs?

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by rhrrngt View Post
    If you are chain running dungeons as a tank like you said in your message then you're getting the same exp now as you did before. If you are running dungeons with a booster as a tank; the mentioning you are a tank seems pointless. I mean you aren't benefiting anyone being a tank running with a lvl 50 boosting you so why mention it?
    Its what tanks do. If you don't know they are a tank then what's the point? You have to know that they are the most important person in the group and that they are the leader. You have to know that their opinion means more. Worst than vegans. It won't matter that you are right. A tank will always want to have the last word. Because they are a tank.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by opposing critter View Post
    Maybe people who have been playing for a while are now completely sick of leveling the same SHIT OVER AND OVER and just want to hit max level where it matters. This was done purely to make people waste more time or spend $$$$ yet the white knights here are defending this stupid change.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yep i don't understand why they want less options but then again people are fucking stupid and enjoy being a blind sheep.


    (I wonder how long before those knights get me banned again for calling out the truth)
    You call for more options but then you say you should be able to get power leveled. That's actually limiting options. If one way is better than for people who want to power through them then there are less options. Just buy a boost.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by SirReal View Post
    "Something was broke and we fixed it"

    Lots of salt and crying incoming. ^
    "Something was being exploited and we fixed it, and decided against banning the exploiters."

    FTFY

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    No, you literally gained much more experience than intended when grouping with less people in a 5man.

    Imagine you would kill a raid boss twice as fast because you have only 5 people in your 20man raid.
    That is kind of a thing. Heroic and normal scaling can make bosses easier or harder between 10 and 30 players.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Skorpionss View Post
    yeah and this is bullshit, it's been like that since forever but suddenly now it's a bug...
    This same fix has been implemented more than once over the years. Back in TBC it was discovered that a level 60 running a lowbie thru dungeons was a fast way to level, and that was fixed based on averaging the levels of group members.
    Snarky: Adjective - Any language that contains quips or comments containing sarcastic or satirical witticisms intended as blunt irony. Usually delivered in a manner that is somewhat abrupt and out of context and intended to stun and amuse.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by opposing critter View Post
    Maybe people who have been playing for a while are now completely sick of leveling the same SHIT OVER AND OVER and just want to hit max level where it matters. This was done purely to make people waste more time or spend $$$$ yet the white knights here are defending this stupid change.
    These changes have happened all throughout the history of WoW. Dungeon exp rates have been constantly nerfed and buffed and the level range at which you can get experience and the level range at which you can gain optimal experience has been constantly reworked. This is nothing new.

    And it takes 8-10 hours to speed level to 50. It was worth being annoyed about when it took at least a day and a half of /played time to get to max level, but as it is right now people are whining just to whine.

    Blizzard has done a lot of stupid things in recent years but this is just people overreacting for no reason, or being mad because they were selling Freehold leveling and now that is going to dry up.

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