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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Grubenwolf View Post
    As a fury warrior though why would I need the shield abilities?
    This mindset is part of why the pruning was a bad idea in the first place. this mindset comes in from the perspective that one is already ignoring options to utilize in certain conditions. If you can't think of any reason you might not need "SPELL REFLECTION" (aka a shield ability that requires a shield to use) then I don't know what to say cause this is some very simple basic thinking going on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grubenwolf View Post
    Like I said in order to even use those abilities you need to have a shield equipped. Why would I equip a shield in fury spec?
    Same reason warriors in older versions of the game would... you'd swap to the shield to get the effect and swap back when you can/need to. A shield, last I checked, still could be swapped like any weapon curing combat.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grubenwolf View Post
    As for Frostbolt it is a useless spell for fire and arcane mages. How exactly is Frostbolt of any use if I can down my enemies with my fire spells before they even reach me? Better yet what use is it in dungeons and raids as fire or arcane spec?
    >.> gonna be honest you're not wrong here, but as I just went to go farm AQ on a non-frost mage I was supremely disappointed that I HAD to respecc frost for a boss. So I'm kind of glad to have a non-consumable, non-weapon selecton based option for that fight
    Quote Originally Posted by Grubenwolf View Post
    So I ask you, why do these classes, in these specs NEED these spells?
    Now lets flip it... why do these effects need to be completely removed when you can simply not use them?

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Keilvog View Post
    Hunter's Mark. Although they changed it and it is now only useful in PvP I think that a version useful in PvE could be fun to have.
    Idea: Off GCD, make it a CD that increases critical strike chance on the target. That would make sense lore wise as with a mark on the target you would have it easier hitting it with arrows at the right spot.
    I didn't understand why they didn't just bring Hunter's Mark back as it was. The issue people had with it was that it had a cd now which made target switching stupid. I don't think anyone really complained about the old Hunter's Mark back in the day, did they?

  3. #63
    Watching them add slam back as a spell to all war specs made me lol my fucking face off.

    Rogues get Slice and Dice returned, a truly iconic spell that actually adds something to their toolkit.

    They could have made Sweeping strikes a baseline spell for arms, and add flurry back to fury..

    but nope

    FUCKING SLAM.

    Name is appropriate since thats what my face did into my keyboard when i saw the icon.
    Last edited by Reinaerd; 2020-10-29 at 03:17 PM.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by mickybrighteyes View Post
    This mindset is part of why the pruning was a bad idea in the first place. this mindset comes in from the perspective that one is already ignoring options to utilize in certain conditions. If you can't think of any reason you might not need "SPELL REFLECTION" (aka a shield ability that requires a shield to use) then I don't know what to say cause this is some very simple basic thinking going on.

    Same reason warriors in older versions of the game would... you'd swap to the shield to get the effect and swap back when you can/need to. A shield, last I checked, still could be swapped like any weapon curing combat.

    >.> gonna be honest you're not wrong here, but as I just went to go farm AQ on a non-frost mage I was supremely disappointed that I HAD to respecc frost for a boss. So I'm kind of glad to have a non-consumable, non-weapon selecton based option for that fight

    Now lets flip it... why do these effects need to be completely removed when you can simply not use them?
    My whole point with the shield abilities as a fury or arms warrior is if we're playing a version of the game where you can kill people in PVP just as easily without it and do superior performance in PVE content by just using your spec's abilities why even use them? Why even bring them back?

    If anything why not have these abilities change when I respec just like how the PVP abilities do when doing PVP content so that I can use them in fury without having to switch to a shield? Point is there are other ways to bring back more abilities. Shield Block can morph into Blade Parry or something. Just giving us the old abilities back without adding anything to them just feels like they're giving us a bunch of useless shit that we never needed since the game's overhaul back in WoD and it's only purpose is to fill up the action bar to make it feel like we're "back in the good ol' days".

    Another good example for warriors too that I can't believe I forgot to mention is Slam. Why would a Fury warrior waste their rage resource on that instead of using Rampage? Again why do we have it?

    Maybe it's just me but in an RPG where you specialize in a certain skill tree it should feel meaningful and important not like "ok I'm a fury warrior but also everything else because I'm a WARRIOR and I can use all the weapons and shields". At that point the specialization serves little to no purpose other than making you a FURY warrior in name and in name only. It has no identity and feels just like as you were before you even specialized in anything except you have a couple of new exclusive abilities. This is where I started to understand and like the pruning because the classes and their specs actually felt diverse from one another. Now they're back to feeling more of the same.

    At the end of the of the day it is what it is, I can deal with it, it's not a huge deal breaker to me and doesn't really affect my gameplay but I'm just addressing the principle of it. Why have something you don't need and are not going to use? Just doesn't make sense to me is all.
    Last edited by Grubenwolf; 2020-10-29 at 06:01 PM.
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grubenwolf View Post
    Maybe it's just me but in an RPG where you specialize in a certain skill tree it should feel meaningful and important not like "ok I'm a fury warrior but also everything else because I'm a WARRIOR and I can use all the weapons and shields".
    Of course, this (specialization) is important in RPG, problem is that you don't want to take into account that second (class) one in RPG is still much more important. Doesn't even need to go into details in principle, it's enough just to relax and read "collection of folk wisdom" (I mean jokes on this topic), from which it will become clear what is more important, what is fundamental/priority in compiling/organizing/emphasizing characters' fantasy (well, or, in jokes' case, it's roughly equivalent to concept of "stereotype"). If even they will remember something specific, it'll probably be rather race, general appearance preferences or character's alignment/play style. Specific "specialization" will be remembered often if just becouse it's something pretentiously unusual, inconsistent with canon... even character's role/specific characteristics will be remembered more often than specialization.

    By the way, this is another proof at what friend laughed long ago, that their whole system (with such organization of specs - almost as separate classes) doesn't even withstand law logic, they can (and this will be more grounded) just as well allow to change character class in general (maybe, except for heroic ones and with eye on race-class combinations) or completely close them, prohibit spec changing... Although, we have already spoken about all this in one way or another.
    Last edited by Alkizon; 2020-10-30 at 10:29 AM.
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  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Grubenwolf View Post
    My whole point with the shield abilities as a fury or arms warrior is if we're playing a version of the game where you can kill people in PVP just as easily without it and do superior performance in PVE content by just using your spec's abilities why even use them? Why even bring them back?
    Because when they took them out people cried foul. Now you're the other foot coming in crying foul that they come back? Man if this was bringing back stance dancing and stance specific cooldowns it might be one thing but damn...

    Quote Originally Posted by Grubenwolf View Post
    If anything why not have these abilities change when I respec just like how the PVP abilities do when doing PVP content so that I can use them in fury without having to switch to a shield? Point is there are other ways to bring back more abilities. Shield Block can morph into Blade Parry or something. Just giving us the old abilities back without adding anything to them just feels like they're giving us a bunch of useless shit that we never needed since the game's overhaul back in WoD and it's only purpose is to fill up the action bar to make it feel like we're "back in the good ol' days".
    Cause that is a far different thing... firstly turning shield block from block into parry is a VERY different thing that would bring other issues into play... that's not like, say... swapping between eviscerate, dispatch, and envenom.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grubenwolf View Post
    Another good example for warriors too that I can't believe I forgot to mention is Slam. Why would a Fury warrior waste their rage resource on that instead of using Rampage? Again why do we have it?
    Cause they're not a lvl 18 warrior and slam (and whirlwind) might be their only rage spenders. This one i'd say was more with leveling characters in mind. And if you don't think leveling needed some tweaks i guess you prolly never saw the likes of shadow priest (going all the way to 100 with nothing to really make void form and insanity management feel anything like it was intended).

    Sure look at this from a post lvl cap only view where you are in a position to not need something, though. It's not the only perspective, however.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grubenwolf View Post
    Maybe it's just me but in an RPG where you specialize in a certain skill tree it should feel meaningful and important not like "ok I'm a fury warrior but also everything else because I'm a WARRIOR and I can use all the weapons and shields". At that point the specialization serves little to no purpose other than making you a FURY warrior in name and in name only. It has no identity and feels just like as you were before you even specialized in anything except you have a couple of new exclusive abilities. This is where I started to understand and like the pruning because the classes and their specs actually felt diverse from one another. Now they're back to feeling more of the same.
    I sort of agree with wanting spcs to feel meaningful... but i personally draw the line when the specs are so disconnected that they only share the class name and none of the feel. Rogue had 3 totally different concepts that do not use anything at all similar besides the fact that they were melee and wore leather.... but that's not rogue unique cause monks, druids, and demon hunters now also share those traits. class armor? well shame that's effectively gone. class storyline? doubt that's coming back.

    I mean overall i think spec identity overwrote class identity to an extreme because of how hyper focused on the theme/role everything went. And what was the worst part was virtually all the classes got stuck in 'rotations' that made arcane's AB spam look complex.. fire off the filler/builder, fire procc when available, use the cleave/aoe when multi target and ensure not to cap spec resource via main spender. DPS cooldown when needed.

    The pruning pissed me off personally, though, entirely because it targeted a slew of effects that SERVED NO PURPOSE with respect to balance/performance in any areas of gameplay the devs were normally focused on. Far sight, eagle eye, mind vision, sentry totem, eyes of the beast... why? Just pointless discarding of skills.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by mickybrighteyes View Post
    Because when they took them out people cried foul. Now you're the other foot coming in crying foul that they come back? Man if this was bringing back stance dancing and stance specific cooldowns it might be one thing but damn...


    Cause that is a far different thing... firstly turning shield block from block into parry is a VERY different thing that would bring other issues into play... that's not like, say... swapping between eviscerate, dispatch, and envenom.



    Cause they're not a lvl 18 warrior and slam (and whirlwind) might be their only rage spenders. This one i'd say was more with leveling characters in mind. And if you don't think leveling needed some tweaks i guess you prolly never saw the likes of shadow priest (going all the way to 100 with nothing to really make void form and insanity management feel anything like it was intended).

    Sure look at this from a post lvl cap only view where you are in a position to not need something, though. It's not the only perspective, however.




    I sort of agree with wanting spcs to feel meaningful... but i personally draw the line when the specs are so disconnected that they only share the class name and none of the feel. Rogue had 3 totally different concepts that do not use anything at all similar besides the fact that they were melee and wore leather.... but that's not rogue unique cause monks, druids, and demon hunters now also share those traits. class armor? well shame that's effectively gone. class storyline? doubt that's coming back.

    I mean overall i think spec identity overwrote class identity to an extreme because of how hyper focused on the theme/role everything went. And what was the worst part was virtually all the classes got stuck in 'rotations' that made arcane's AB spam look complex.. fire off the filler/builder, fire procc when available, use the cleave/aoe when multi target and ensure not to cap spec resource via main spender. DPS cooldown when needed.

    The pruning pissed me off personally, though, entirely because it targeted a slew of effects that SERVED NO PURPOSE with respect to balance/performance in any areas of gameplay the devs were normally focused on. Far sight, eagle eye, mind vision, sentry totem, eyes of the beast... why? Just pointless discarding of skills.
    This. So much this. The pruning went too far. Alot of the flavour and utility abilities just went away for no reason. Though I will give a pass on eyes of the beast since that was apparently a technical hurdle. Still wish the tried to overcome it sooner, but I'm glad it's back.

    Selfishly I want linx rush back, God that was a fun ability to watch. Shame it only lasted 1 expac.

    I hope they keep finding ways to give back rather then take away, and get away from the builder-spender playstyle being the go to.

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