New baseline Death Coil & Death and Decay question

[gaymer77]

Since all DKs now get both Death Coil and D&D baseline, is there any reason why a frost or unholy DK should be using either of those in their rotation and a blood DK to use Death Coil in theirs. This is not factoring in the healing aspect of Lichborne + Death Coil in situations. I'm specifically talking about in normal rotations.

[Kithelle]

Only reason I can see Blood or Frost using DC is if they have a ton of runic power and want to do a little extra damage at range (Or I guess if you want to heal your ghoul or yourself in Lichborne)

Only reason Frost has D&D is because of Death's Due which is a upgraded D&D

[Saltysquidoon]

Coil can be macroed with Lichborne for some niche self-healing if you can't hit anything. Beyond that, it's a ranged rp dump and a pr smokescreen to convince you that the 'great unpruning' is content to bump box sales.

Only reason Frost has D&D is because of Death's Due which is a upgraded D&D

Building on this I'm of the opinion that they made death's due first then remembered frost couldn't use it so just gave frost DnD and called it 'unpruning' since it has no use case outside of the covenant and blood and unholy already have it.

[ldev]

both Death Coil and D&D baseline, is there any reason why a frost or unholy DK should be using either of those in their rotation

I mean, Death Coil is bread and butter RP dump for Unholy, whaaat? You suggest using Death Strike? You even get a proc for free Death Coil. wtf
And as for Death and Decay - your Scourge Strike hits 4 enemies while standing in it.

For Frost DK - it's a ranged RP dump. Or self heal with Lichborne.

I got trolled. >:(

[Absintheminded]

Beyond that, it's a ranged rp dump and a pr smokescreen to convince you that the 'great unpruning' is content to bump box sales.

And yet, it should have never been removed to begin with.

[Unholyground]

DC is actually really good on a blood DK if you are soloing stuff, it also lets you pull from range if your grip is on CD.

[Acherus01]

DC is actually really good on a blood DK if you are soloing stuff, it also lets you pull from range if your grip is on CD.

Death's Caress feels sad.

[valky94]

Since all DKs now get both Death Coil and D&D baseline, is there any reason why a frost or unholy DK should be using either of those in their rotation and a blood DK to use Death Coil in theirs. This is not factoring in the healing aspect of Lichborne + Death Coil in situations. I'm specifically talking about in normal rotations.

DC has always been part of unholys rotation, and iirc DnD does more dmg per rune than SS if the target wont move out of it and you wont be capping wounds

[Venziir]

Since all DKs now get both Death Coil and D&D baseline, is there any reason why a frost or unholy DK should be using either of those in their rotation and a blood DK to use Death Coil in theirs. This is not factoring in the healing aspect of Lichborne + Death Coil in situations. I'm specifically talking about in normal rotations.

... Just how do you play Unholy?

[RaoBurning]

I usually roll as frost and ended up using Death Coil while running from the auto-targeting fire elementals in Mechanar last night. Otherwise... yeah, I got nothing. Niche ranged uses like that.

Sometimes I use D&D to kill critters.

[gaymer77]

I mean, Death Coil is bread and butter RP dump for Unholy, whaaat? You suggest using Death Strike? You even get a proc for free Death Coil. wtf
And as for Death and Decay - your Scourge Strike hits 4 enemies while standing in it.

For Frost DK - it's a ranged RP dump. Or self heal with Lichborne.

I got trolled. >

DC has always been part of unholys rotation, and iirc DnD does more dmg per rune than SS if the target wont move out of it and you wont be capping wounds

... Just how do you play Unholy?

I only grouped unholy into the question because I know they get those two spells too. That's the only spec of DK I don't know about because I've never played it since WOTLK and even then it was only for a brief moment. Frost & blood are the two specs I play. It was just frost in WOTLK until blood became the tanking spec (DW frost tanking FTW!!!). I just see from a perspective of frost and blood that it makes no sense to use DC in their normal rotation since it costs more rp and deals less damage and for frost using D&D which costs a rune I can't see why you would use it.

[Razion]

DnD for Frost, pre-cast before fights for free RP or before adds spawn or as a way to get free RP during intermission phases. It can be useful breaking stealth from range, or when targets are obscured or LoS. Night Fae covenant ver cleaves Obliterates.

Death Coil for Frost and Blood still trigger rune generation and is important to spend RP even at range so you don't overcap when using ranged RP generators.

[LordVargK]

I mean, Death Coil is bread and butter RP dump for Unholy, whaaat? You suggest using Death Strike? You even get a proc for free Death Coil. wtf
And as for Death and Decay - your Scourge Strike hits 4 enemies while standing in it.

For Frost DK - it's a ranged RP dump. Or self heal with Lichborne.

I got trolled. >

I could not get the AoE Scourge Strike while in DnD to work. Don't know why, maybe it's a bug, but it only hits one target. I works with heart strike while being specced blood, but for unholy it does not work for me.

[bloodmoth13]

DC is actually really good on a blood DK if you are soloing stuff, it also lets you pull from range if your grip is on CD.

you already have death's caress

[Saltysquidoon]

And yet, it should have never been removed to begin with.

I agree, doesn't make it less dodgy to sell returning it as a feature of teh expansion.

[Neuroticaine]

I just see from a perspective of frost and blood that it makes no sense to use DC in their normal rotation since it costs more rp and deals less damage and for frost using D&D which costs a rune I can't see why you would use it.

There may be times when you cannot be in melee range and are capped with runic power. In those cases, Death Coil may be useful. Between Howling Blast and Death Coil, Frost isn't totally useless if they cannot be in melee range for whatever reason.

[Absintheminded]

honestly, death coil has some niche uses for frost dks as a damage dealing spell and even as self heal while lichborne is active (maybe even for blood, im a damage dealer myself so i would know) and although death and decay is currently useless it will have interactions with the night fae covonent ability. (which is kind of a "better" version of DaC)

You can say it's niche, but lichborne was originally a Frost talent and if it was taken, it was for this purpose mostly. Tbh I think the heal was even removed because of it being powerful.

[Saltysquidoon]

I think that it's important not to oversell Lichcoil's effectiveness. Especially now DS uses RP, especially now that Lichborne gives leech.

Literally, the only time this is worth using over DS is in this perfect storm of theoreticals that almost never happen in reality:
You are taking livable chip damage but not being topped up (which is a real rarity in Mythic and M+ content); and;
You cannot hit the target; and;
You are RP capped.
If we're being honest here with how the damage profile of the game has shifted to being topped or getting one shot in meaningful content the true uses for this will be exceedingly rare. It's also probably never going to be the right play for blood.

I admit it will probably see more use in pvp, but that's the nature of the beast. Even then the proportion of the time when this clutches to when you still just eat shit (I mean you're being hard kited and close to death as a DK that's oh shit territory) will be very low.

[Segus1992]

Coil can be macroed with Lichborne for some niche self-healing if you can't hit anything. Beyond that, it's a ranged rp dump and a pr smokescreen to convince you that the 'great unpruning' is content to bump box sales.

Imagine being so into conspiracy theories that you, after listing legitimate reasons for a thing do be done, claim it's a "PR smokescreen". I want to know how your brain works if you think Blizzard thinks such a smokescreen is worth the effort.
How many would buy SL because of it, and be disappointed because it wasn't more than the reasons listed prior? A single person maybe?

[Raisei]

Death Coil in Blood should have been a ranged version of Death Strike, so that we have some way to heal when not in melee for a bit (while kiting for example).

But alas, that was too much to hope.

As it stands it's pretty pointless to use in Blood, since RP is precious and should be used to heal (especially since the start of the expansion will make us scrape for every point with low haste levels).
Even when you overflow with RP, Death Strike will do more damage while in melee and the situations where you have too much RP AND are not in melee are so few it does not justify even keybinding the ability.

In Frost you are generally much better off using Frost Strike, for the very rare circumstances where you are forced away from the enemy you can use it I guess, though probably Howling Blast will be a better way to spend the globals und less you are really overcapping RP.