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  1. #21
    Merely a Setback JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    ...so instead you want to have every single young person in the united states funneled into that military industrial complex and the requisite massive ballooning in money that would be pumped into it in order to finance all of the training, resources, housing, and so forth to accommodate the massive influx of people?



    I get that is sometimes hard to read a post when you do it too quickly, but I really advice you do not do this when you want to respond to it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Milchshake View Post
    There’s always a lot of talk of a general strike on the left. But it’s mostly a syndicalist fantasy that “the workers” are going to rise up, which is disconnected from the fact that “the workers” are your racist uncle and jerk co-workers who you don’t like.
    Just your typical neo-liberal horseshit.

  2. #22
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    I knew that, but I thought they did away with that after I graduated High School because of equality, but I guess they didn't after some judge struck it down that only males have to register.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rostker_v._Goldberg

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  3. #23
    Merely a Setback JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    Tell it to our military service dodging president.
    Sometimes horrible people do good things for horrible reasons.

    It happpens, but 1 less American to Vietnam is 1 less American in Vietnam
    Quote Originally Posted by Milchshake View Post
    There’s always a lot of talk of a general strike on the left. But it’s mostly a syndicalist fantasy that “the workers” are going to rise up, which is disconnected from the fact that “the workers” are your racist uncle and jerk co-workers who you don’t like.
    Just your typical neo-liberal horseshit.

  4. #24
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    Isn't that exactly the propaganda he's talking about? Like, I graduated from high school in 1999. My best friend, a blue collar kid whose father was a trucker, wanted to join the Marine Corps because "it would help him pay for school, and all I'd do is sit on a base in Germany for awhile." Luckily, his father was a Marine (the reason my friend wanted to join the Marine Corps in the first place) in Vietnam, and forbade him from joining. Otherwise my best friend would have probably been in Afghanistan or Fallujah.

    You don't have to look past the NFL to see how the military in this country is fetishized and language becomes jingoistic in re: the military at every turn.....everything about having to "respect their service" when the U.S. Military, since WW2, has largely been about protecting corporate and elite's interests.
    No, it was explicitly a lie. They were promised an education, in exchange for a weekend a month. That is not propaganda... That is a lie... I am specifically talking about the reserves...

    Hey @Ghostpanther why did you join the military? Was it the patriotism or the promise of an education?

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    U.S. Military’s Reliance on the Reserves
    https://www.prb.org/usmilitarysrelianceonthereserves/
    As military reservists continue to constitute nearly 40 percent of the 150,000 U.S. forces now deployed in Iraq, public debate continues to grow about the military’s current reliance on the reserves. Some analysts have even called the military’s consideration of extended call-ups for reservists part of a “back-door” draft. But the widely held expectation that reserve forces will be used sparingly in wartime is contradicted by the history of the reserves and of U.S. military planning.
    I know this all is old, but fuck... reserves got fucked for Iraq... this was not people going in high on patriotism...

    Reservist deaths high in Iraq
    https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-...-high-in-iraq/
    Reservists have accounted for one-quarter of all U.S. deaths since the Iraq war began, but the proportion has grown over time. It was 10 percent for the five weeks it took to topple Baghdad in the spring of 2003, and 20 percent for 2004 as a whole.

    The trend accelerated this year. For the first nine months of 2005 reservists accounted for 36 percent of U.S. deaths, and for August and September it was 56 percent, according to Pentagon figures.
    Last edited by Felya; 2020-10-29 at 01:34 AM.
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  5. #25
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    I get that is sometimes hard to read a post when you do it too quickly, but I really advice you do not do this when you want to respond to it.
    The thread asks why military service isn't mandatory.

    You spout off about the military industrial complex insidiously indoctrinating teenagers being why they don't insidiously impress people into forced service.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  6. #26
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    Sometimes horrible people do good things for horrible reasons.

    It happpens, but 1 less American to Vietnam is 1 less American in Vietnam
    No, the next man up went instead of Trump... some working class asshole, took Trump’s spot, because his daddy paid off a doctor or could afford higher education... he alternated those two excuses.
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    That which is Below corresponds to that which is Above, and that which is Above corresponds to that which is Below, to accomplish the miracle of the One Thing.

  7. #27
    Merely a Setback Sunseeker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Forced service is, fundamentally, slavery. It's a horseshit idea that shouldn't have been brought forward from the 19th Century.
    Aside from this, can you imagine what America would do with some 25 million soldiers? I mean, we'd have to invade someone just to put them all to use.
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  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    Tell it to our military service dodging president.
    You can’t really blame him. Many people dodged the Vietnam draft if they could. People were basically be sent away to die. I respect and thank the people that willingly serve, but I don’t military service should be forced on anyone.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    The thread asks why military service isn't mandatory.

    You spout off about the military industrial complex insidiously indoctrinating teenagers being why they don't insidiously impress people into forced service.
    Yes, they’re two different things. One is brainwashing people so they readily agree to service, the other is forcing people who haven’t been brainwashed to serve. Get the difference?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunseeker View Post
    Aside from this, can you imagine what America would do with some 25 million soldiers? I mean, we'd have to invade someone just to put them all to use.
    Or use them to fix our infrastructure. You know, either or.

  10. #30
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Yes, they’re two different things. One is brainwashing people so they readily agree to service, the other is forcing people who haven’t been brainwashed to serve. Get the difference?
    I would assume that they'd more easily force people to serve by just making service mandatory for everyone than counting on yvan eht nioj tactics.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Yes, they’re two different things. One is brainwashing people so they readily agree to service, the other is forcing people who haven’t been brainwashed to serve. Get the difference?

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    Or use them to fix our infrastructure. You know, either or.
    But how does that make glorious the state?

    Dulce et decorum est, pro patria mori, and all that, yanno.

  12. #32
    Yeah, there was another more recent one that still says that ruled it unconstitutional that only males have to sign up, but apparently the appeals court overruled that.

  13. #33
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    I would assume that they'd more easily force people to serve by just making service mandatory for everyone than counting on yvan eht nioj tactics.
    Nah they figured out as a result of Vietnam that overt recruitment strategies of the sort that existed in the first half of the century don't really work with pointless forever wars.

    Hence why we have nonsense to the tune of Army recruiters streaming on Twitch trying to advertise to 13 year olds.
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  14. #34
    Fluffy Kitten GothamCity's Avatar
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    I imagine this would be deeply unpopular. Most democrats would oppose it on principle. And despite their boasting about taking down an armed gunman single-handedly, I doubt most conservatives would willingly sign away 2 years of their life for forced conscription either.

    I'd probably vote yes however, in general. I've always been swayed in favor of the arguments for military service, and some of the western countries that do it tend to do everything else well too. Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Switzerland, South Korea, etc. Specifically, I've been swayed by their arguments. They tend to focus on nation building, preparation, and instilling general survival and defense knowledge in their populace. I don't think that's a bad idea, and it gives their people time to earn money and discover themselves in an even playing field, while also working on other skills.

    Specifically in America, I'd oppose it. That's just because the state of our armed forces disgusts me. But if it were in a better armed forces, like Canada or the UK, I'd more readily accept it.
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  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    I would assume that they'd more easily force people to serve by just making service mandatory for everyone than counting on yvan eht nioj tactics.
    They would, but they would have to deal with the wrong “type” of people serving in larger numbers.

  16. #36
    The Unstoppable Force Kellhound's Avatar
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    One significant reason the US does not draft people anymore is the military itself is vehemently opposed to the draft. Conscripts make very poor soldiers.
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  17. #37
    The UK hasn't had conscription since around 1960, IIRC. There is a reason for that.

  18. #38
    Because:

    A) we can't afford it.
    B) we don't need it.
    C) rich kids and pol/military kids would always be able to get out of having to do it or get the positions in the military that are cush while the poor get sent to iraq.
    D) Can't build enough jails for all the people who refuse.
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  19. #39
    High Overlord Gerron's Avatar
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    To give an answer to the question posed.... Mostly we don't need that many people actively serving at this current time. When we do need more active personal the Reserves are first to be activated followed by National Guard units and then the Selective Service System starts up the draft lottery. There's lots of issues with the current system due to the over reliance on Reserve units though and they've known that since the current system was put in place after Vietnam.

  20. #40
    Mandatory military service, fuck no.

    Mandatory public service I would be 100% on board with.

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    Honestly I was recently considering a career in the navy due to COVID making my other options basically moot, but flipping a coin to determine whether I see my kids in the next 18 months is too much.

    Is happily enlist if I knew 100% if be fixing computers in the sub base 5 miles from my house.
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