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  1. #81
    That would create unmanageable situations, if mechanisms align badly and generate massive damage.

    Not to mention strategies where interacting with mechansim A is mandatory to handle mechanism B. What happens if randomness gets the 2 completgely out of sync ... => impossible to go through the fight. That's not the goal of PvE encounter design ^^
    Last edited by Ninix; 2020-10-31 at 06:19 PM.

  2. #82
    This is exactly why high end pve is a joke. Its all scripted and an addon does it for you. I've been in a us 6th guild throughout legion and wod, and can barely hit above 2.3k in 3s. Pvp actually takes a lot more skill to be able to handle and adapt to many random situations. Pve is honestly a scripted joke

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Rainyhealz View Post
    This is exactly why high end pve is a joke. Its all scripted and an addon does it for you. I've been in a us 6th guild throughout legion and wod, and can barely hit above 2.3k in 3s. Pvp actually takes a lot more skill to be able to handle and adapt to many random situations. Pve is honestly a scripted joke
    So you have done all PvE encounters successfully?
    A witty saying proves nothing.
    -Voltaire
    winning
    plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Squigglyo View Post
    Randomness doesnt make it more challenging, just more difficult to measure failure.

    No one likes failing at an encounter because 'random thing' happened instead of 'other random thing'.
    What you just described is more challenging lol.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by ymirsson View Post
    So you have done all PvE encounters successfully?
    Eventually everyone does. You hit your head against a nail so many times and eventually it'll go in- pve

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Rainyhealz View Post
    Eventually everyone does.
    That's not true.
    A witty saying proves nothing.
    -Voltaire
    winning
    plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by ymirsson View Post
    This argument fails as soon as there is some kind of serious competition involved. Would you be happy about being second place if it was caused by having the a bad string of random occurences?

    Not to mention that in a raid of 20 people, there is already an element of human error involved.
    Well thing is Im aware of that but its not something which a priority for me.

    Priority for me and I believe most players is to have fun in the game.
    And fun in the game comes primary for challenge atleast for me.
    Also story and other things. Like finding out how classes work
    improving etc.

    Im not looking for serious competition.

    Its sad that it would affect it but to tell you the truth this game is not for serious competition.
    You can make sport and competition in many things for sure but doesnt mean its 100% balanced.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Wadrak View Post
    Well thing is Im aware of that but its not something which a priority for me.
    Well then, accept that your priorities are not that important and move on.
    A witty saying proves nothing.
    -Voltaire
    winning
    plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

  9. #89
    Jaina was random and it was awful.

  10. #90
    Old God Mirishka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wadrak View Post
    Hey guys,

    I came back to wow recently to prepare for Shadowlands which I would like to play.

    I was playing some bfa dungeons and raids.

    And as we all know PvE encounters are scripted.
    For example

    Boss 1, is going to use ability A in 30 seconds
    ability B in 45 seconds
    again ability A in another 30 seconds
    ability C in 2 mins
    ability B in another 45 seconds.

    So we have addons like Deadly boss mods or BigWigs etc to show us countdown when these abilities happen.

    But what if we instead had bosses which would use abilites at little bit more random timers ?
    In order to create more challenge in the game.

    For example

    Boss 1, is going to use ability A in 10-30 seconds
    ability B in 30-55 seconds
    again ability A in another 10-30 seconds
    ability C in 1.30-2:30 mins
    ability B in another 30-55 seconds.

    Or what if for example adds group which spawn during bosses would each time spawn different mobs ?

    I think boss like inquistor guy in Vault of Wardens he always spawned different add group in random order (not 100% sure about this, maybe it was the same order)
    Or in Violet hold dungeon you always get different boss out of the pool, even though the dungeon was too easy, because of no mythic plus

    I think it could make the pve encounters a lot more fun and challenging if its more random rather then scripted.

    I know in Tower of Torghast they add random enemies you face each time. This is nice.

    At first there was only one difficulty of dungeons and raids.
    Then they added heroic more dungeons, later raids.
    They they added mythic dungeons and raids. After that mythic plus affixes.

    Players always improved and catch up even with mythic plus

    I dont know perhaps this could be another way to make the game more challenging
    I think its something that sounds more fun on paper than it would be in reality.
    My greatest fear is that one day, my MMO-Champion ignore list will run out of space.

  11. #91
    Immortal TEHPALLYTANK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainyhealz View Post
    Eventually everyone does. You hit your head against a nail so many times and eventually it'll go in- pve
    You dodged the question, why?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbamboozal View Post
    Intelligence is like four wheel drive, it's not going to make you unstoppable, it just sort of tends to get you stuck in more remote places.
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    If you want to be disgusted, next time you kiss someone remember you've got your mouth on the end of a tube which has shit at the other end, held back by a couple of valves.

  12. #92
    Best part of this thread is the OP stating that PVE is not challenging enough and hasn't even played the current game.

    Randomness sucks especially when it makes an encounter significantly harder on certain weeks.

    Not the best example, but I remember certain weeks on Halfus being absolute shit because of the dragon combination that was up. At least that was known in advance. If that changed every attempt it would be miserable.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Rainyhealz View Post
    Eventually everyone does. You hit your head against a nail so many times and eventually it'll go in- pve
    One way of dodging the question. I actually do not believe a top 10 US player would have your opinion yet consistently sit through the two most difficult expansions raiding-wise. Sorry not sorry. "An addon does it for you"? Come the fuck on, you sound like one of those ignorant Classic players who thought it would take months to down C'thun again or something.

    To say nothing of the fact that your statement is not true, because barely more than a single-digit percentage of the playerbase even kills a Mythic boss, let alone gets Cutting Edge, let alone is in the Hall of Fame.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Rainyhealz View Post
    This is exactly why high end pve is a joke. Its all scripted and an addon does it for you. I've been in a us 6th guild throughout legion and wod, and can barely hit above 2.3k in 3s. Pvp actually takes a lot more skill to be able to handle and adapt to many random situations. Pve is honestly a scripted joke
    That's sort of like comparing NASCAR to soccer though, you are measuring completely different skillsets. If you think scripted nature makes it easy, well, good for you I guess?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainyhealz View Post
    Eventually everyone does. You hit your head against a nail so many times and eventually it'll go in- pve
    With enough nerfs, sure. Otherwise people just get too frustrated. E.g. what happened on Star Augur or Kil'jaeden.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by CerealLord View Post
    Best part of this thread is the OP stating that PVE is not challenging enough and hasn't even played the current game.

    Randomness sucks especially when it makes an encounter significantly harder on certain weeks.

    Not the best example, but I remember certain weeks on Halfus being absolute shit because of the dragon combination that was up. At least that was known in advance. If that changed every attempt it would be miserable.
    I have played a lot of current game.

    I played 6 months in Legion very actively.

    Did lot of raiding and mythic +, highest key I did was above +20 NL in time.
    Even some mythic raiding.

    For BFA I switched roles, I played tank as main.

    Perhaps I didnt enjoy tanking as much so I didnt play that frequently.
    Or I missed dps competition on dps meter.
    Last edited by Wadrak; 2020-11-01 at 01:21 AM.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Wadrak View Post
    I have played a lot of current game.

    I played 6 months in Legion very actively.

    Did lot of raiding and mythic +, highest key I did was above +20 NL in time.
    Even some mythic raiding.

    For BFA I switched roles, I played tank as main.

    Perhaps I didnt enjoy tanking as much so I didnt play that frequently.
    Or I missed dps competition on dps meter.
    Except you said:

    Since then I only played here and there did only few mythic bosses, none in BFA actually.
    You are not playing the current game in the iteration being discussed. Just doing m+ or other content does not give you an informed opinion on difficulty of current content and how randomness affects it.

    You have been told multiple times, from current raiders, that your opinion is flawed because of not having those experiences. It is perfectly fine to have an opinion, but if you are not allowing it to be informed by people running the content, then you aren't looking for a discussion. You just want to say "this is how it is and you all should agree with me"

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by CerealLord View Post
    Except you said:



    You are not playing the current game in the iteration being discussed. Just doing m+ or other content does not give you an informed opinion on difficulty of current content and how randomness affects it.

    You have been told multiple times, from current raiders, that your opinion is flawed because of not having those experiences. It is perfectly fine to have an opinion, but if you are not allowing it to be informed by people running the content, then you aren't looking for a discussion. You just want to say "this is how it is and you all should agree with me"
    Only think you are saying is that I dont have those experiences.

    You are not giving me any concrete argument which would change my opinion.
    Its you who is not looking for discussion. You are telling me I cant even discuss.

    Let me tell you the big secret. I pay same amount of money for sub then you.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Wadrak View Post
    Only think you are saying is that I dont have those experiences.

    You are not giving me any concrete argument which would change my opinion.
    Its you who is not looking for discussion. You are telling me I cant even discuss.

    Let me tell you the big secret. I pay same amount of money for sub then you.
    No one told you that you cannot discuss. You have been given numerous reasons why randomness is not good, especially for raiding, but refuse to even acknowledge them and instead just keep stating why randomness is good, with examples that do not further your point. Just new examples of the same thing.

    Imagine if m+ changes its affixes everytime you queued for a dungeon. It would be madness.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by CerealLord View Post
    No one told you that you cannot discuss. You have been given numerous reasons why randomness is not good, especially for raiding, but refuse to even acknowledge them and instead just keep stating why randomness is good, with examples that do not further your point. Just new examples of the same thing.

    Imagine if m+ changes its affixes everytime you queued for a dungeon. It would be madness.
    Funny you are not mentioning quite a few people who agree with me in the thread

    You mentions just those who disagree.

  20. #100
    Herald of the Titans Advent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzhands View Post
    I think the point is you did the easiest Heroic/Mythic content, haven't actually done much since then, but are asking for more difficult content. Quite frankly if you did anything more than just dipping your toe into Mythic, which is essentially all you've done, you'd understand why this is such an awful idea. The top players already take hundreds of attempts on mythic bosses, you're looking at increasing that number multiple fold while not actually adding any difficulty. This really wouldn't play out like you think, people would simply wipe and reset as soon as they knew whether RNG was going to favor them or not. This is just bad and unfun design, imagine a night where you just wipe 50+ times in a row on a boss because RNG never lines up instead of making actual mistakes that lead to learning and improving. Man, what a great time.
    If I recall, people did something similar for Spirit Kings back in MoP.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Wadrak View Post
    Funny you are not mentioning quite a few people who agree with me in the thread

    You mentions just those who disagree.
    Who? Find them. Don't worry, we'll wait.

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