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  1. #21
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Skipping through the general stuff, this is the best summation of what character of things they considered "anti-semitic" in nature;

    Quote Originally Posted by Article, p. 31
    The unwanted conduct complained of in this group related to social mediacomments that:
    • diminished the scale or significance of the Holocaust
    • expressed support for Hitler or the Nazis
    • compared Israelis to Hitler or the Nazis
    • described a ‘witch hunt’ in the Labour Party, or said that complaints had
    been manufactured by the ‘Israel lobby’
    • referenced conspiracies about the Rothschilds and Jewish power and
    control over financial or other institutions
    • blamed Jewish people for the ‘antisemitism crisis’ in the Labour Party
    • blamed Jewish people generally for actions of the state of Israel
    • used ‘Zio’ as an antisemitic term, and
    • accused British Jews of greater loyalty to Israel than Britain.
    If that's the kind of stuff we're talking about, yeah, that's all antisemitic horse crap, save for the bit in red which I have a problem with. Israel should not be given a free pass to commit genocide and war crimes just because they're a Jewish ethnostate. Such policies should be condemned and opposed no matter what country is enacting them, or what their ethnicity may be. Is it racist against Chinese people to condemn their putting Uighurs in re-education camps? Or is that strictly about national policy and conduct, completely irrespective of the race or ethnicity of those perpetrating the policy? The key difference, to me, is whether you're comparing Israeli politicians or policies to Nazis, or if you're suggesting it's somehow integral to their ethnicity and only emerges in Israel because of how it's controlled by its Jewish population. The latter, obviously, being antisemitic as fuuuuck.

    To put it another way, is it racist against Germanic peoples to point out that Hitler and Goebbels and the like were Nazis, and pushing Nazi policies? Or are we talking about those individual people and their individual choices and political record, independent of their ethnicity? It's entirely possible to level criticisms against Israeli politicians and policies that have nothing at all to do with their Jewishness. Though I think any such comments risk being interpreted that way unless you take pains to explain the distinction, as I'm trying to do here.

    The distinction between attacking something that happens to be Israeli, or attacking something for being Israeli, to put it in a third way.

    I also have a bit of an issue with the idea that claiming the accusations are "smears" is also anti-semitic, since that seems like begging the question. But if it's a case where they said something like the above, and are trying to claim it's not antisemitic, well, yeah. It was. Not understanding that is why we know you're an anti-semite.

  2. #22
    I suggest that those you feel hard done-by by the EHRC report listen to Luciana Berger - who suffered anti-Semitic abuse within the Labour party - has to say.

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1321801117928402946

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Skipping through the general stuff, this is the best summation of what character of things they considered "anti-semitic" in nature;



    If that's the kind of stuff we're talking about, yeah, that's all antisemitic horse crap, save for the bit in red which I have a problem with. Israel should not be given a free pass to commit genocide and war crimes just because they're a Jewish ethnostate. Such policies should be condemned and opposed no matter what country is enacting them, or what their ethnicity may be. Is it racist against Chinese people to condemn their putting Uighurs in re-education camps? Or is that strictly about national policy and conduct, completely irrespective of the race or ethnicity of those perpetrating the policy? The key difference, to me, is whether you're comparing Israeli politicians or policies to Nazis, or if you're suggesting it's somehow integral to their ethnicity and only emerges in Israel because of how it's controlled by its Jewish population. The latter, obviously, being antisemitic as fuuuuck.

    To put it another way, is it racist against Germanic peoples to point out that Hitler and Goebbels and the like were Nazis, and pushing Nazi policies? Or are we talking about those individual people and their individual choices and political record, independent of their ethnicity? It's entirely possible to level criticisms against Israeli politicians and policies that have nothing at all to do with their Jewishness. Though I think any such comments risk being interpreted that way unless you take pains to explain the distinction, as I'm trying to do here.

    The distinction between attacking something that happens to be Israeli, or attacking something for being Israeli, to put it in a third way.

    I also have a bit of an issue with the idea that claiming the accusations are "smears" is also anti-semitic, since that seems like begging the question. But if it's a case where they said something like the above, and are trying to claim it's not antisemitic, well, yeah. It was. Not understanding that is why we know you're an anti-semite.
    I feel like this idea that criticizing israel is anti semitic really throws the jewish people who are against the imperialism of Israel under the bus. Kinda seems a bit...

    This is clearly a politically motivated criteria, but are they going to be investigating the conservative party along these same lines? Because that could be fun.

  4. #24
    Merely a Setback JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Skipping through the general stuff, this is the best summation of what character of things they considered "anti-semitic" in nature;



    If that's the kind of stuff we're talking about, yeah, that's all antisemitic horse crap, save for the bit in red which I have a problem with. Israel should not be given a free pass to commit genocide and war crimes just because they're a Jewish ethnostate. Such policies should be condemned and opposed no matter what country is enacting them, or what their ethnicity may be. Is it racist against Chinese people to condemn their putting Uighurs in re-education camps? Or is that strictly about national policy and conduct, completely irrespective of the race or ethnicity of those perpetrating the policy? The key difference, to me, is whether you're comparing Israeli politicians or policies to Nazis, or if you're suggesting it's somehow integral to their ethnicity and only emerges in Israel because of how it's controlled by its Jewish population. The latter, obviously, being antisemitic as fuuuuck.

    To put it another way, is it racist against Germanic peoples to point out that Hitler and Goebbels and the like were Nazis, and pushing Nazi policies? Or are we talking about those individual people and their individual choices and political record, independent of their ethnicity? It's entirely possible to level criticisms against Israeli politicians and policies that have nothing at all to do with their Jewishness. Though I think any such comments risk being interpreted that way unless you take pains to explain the distinction, as I'm trying to do here.

    The distinction between attacking something that happens to be Israeli, or attacking something for being Israeli, to put it in a third way.

    I also have a bit of an issue with the idea that claiming the accusations are "smears" is also anti-semitic, since that seems like begging the question. But if it's a case where they said something like the above, and are trying to claim it's not antisemitic, well, yeah. It was. Not understanding that is why we know you're an anti-semite.
    Corbyn did not do anything listed in those bulletpoints. Although its true this was pretty much a witch hunt against him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Milchshake View Post
    it’s mostly a syndicalist fantasy that “the workers” are going to rise up, which is disconnected from the fact that “the workers” are your racist uncle and jerk co-workers who you don’t like.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    The election has passed and 58 million working class Americans stood up and proved that they are in fact your racist uncle and jerk co-workers.
    They really can't help but show disdain for the working class.

  5. #25
    Scarab Lord downnola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    Corbyn did not do anything listed in those bulletpoints. Although its true this was pretty much a witch hunt against him.
    Corbyn's reaction to members of his party doing the things that were listed is why they suspended him. He basically acted like it was all a fabrication or exaggerated. I don't think the guy is anti semitic and think he's facing disingenuous concern trolling from right-wingers, but his failure to make an example out of anti-semites in his own party shows that he's not a good leader.
    There is a limit to the success of conservative populism and the exploitation of "little guy" or "silent majority" rhetoric, and it is very often reached because of the emaciated, corrupted personalities of the demagogues themselves.
    - Christopher Hitchens

  6. #26
    Merely a Setback JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by downnola View Post
    Corbyn's reaction to members of his party doing the things that were listed is why they suspended him. He basically acted like it was all a fabrication or exaggerated. I don't think the guy is anti semitic and think he's facing disingenuous concern trolling from right-wingers, but his failure to make an example out of anti-semites in his own party shows that he's not a good leader.
    Because it was all bullshit. His reaction was justified. It was obvious to anybody who is not a blairite that they wanted to get rid of him at all cost.
    Quote Originally Posted by Milchshake View Post
    it’s mostly a syndicalist fantasy that “the workers” are going to rise up, which is disconnected from the fact that “the workers” are your racist uncle and jerk co-workers who you don’t like.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    The election has passed and 58 million working class Americans stood up and proved that they are in fact your racist uncle and jerk co-workers.
    They really can't help but show disdain for the working class.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by downnola View Post
    Corbyn's reaction to members of his party doing the things that were listed is why they suspended him. He basically acted like it was all a fabrication or exaggerated. I don't think the guy is anti semitic and think he's facing disingenuous concern trolling from right-wingers, but his failure to make an example out of anti-semites in his own party shows that he's not a good leader.
    And that, is the issue. He didn't do enough. Because he's not a good leader for the Labour Party. Because the Labour Party has been fragmented for years. That said, he went off and created a Socialist Party that was entirely united, things would be probably quite different from a leadership perspective.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    Because it was all bullshit. His reaction was justified. It was obvious to anybody who is not a blairite that they wanted to get rid of him at all cost.
    Man, and here I thought you hated bigots even if they shared your world view.

    The horseshoe continues.

  9. #29
    Merely a Setback JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Man, and here I thought you hated bigots even if they shared your world view.

    The horseshoe continues.
    The horseshoe is bullshit because Corbyn is not a bigot. But somehow these sort of smears are okay if they are aimed at anybody left of centre, strange how that works.

    Is it so hard to oppose left wing policies without coming with lies, or do you hate coming up with excuses to keep the poor poor
    Last edited by JohnBrown1917; 2020-10-29 at 03:46 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Milchshake View Post
    it’s mostly a syndicalist fantasy that “the workers” are going to rise up, which is disconnected from the fact that “the workers” are your racist uncle and jerk co-workers who you don’t like.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    The election has passed and 58 million working class Americans stood up and proved that they are in fact your racist uncle and jerk co-workers.
    They really can't help but show disdain for the working class.

  10. #30
    neoliberalism is the only feasible pathway for liberals to win
    moving left always hurts us., i actually agree wtih corbyn on alot of the woke stuff, but his problematic stances on israel and foreign policy, not so woke, clear loser.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    And that, is the issue. He didn't do enough. Because he's not a good leader for the Labour Party. Because the Labour Party has been fragmented for years. That said, he went off and created a Socialist Party that was entirely united, things would be probably quite different from a leadership perspective.
    I see it as Corbyn and his generation being stuck on a worldview from their heydays. Leftism needs to stop romanticising Castro or Arafat.

    La Revolution needed to combat colonial or monarchist powers just doesnt fucking apply modern multiethnic democracies.

  12. #32
    Merely a Setback JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milchshake View Post
    I see it as Corbyn and his generation being stuck on a worldview from their heydays. Leftism needs to stop romanticising Castro or Arafat.

    La Revolution needed to combat colonial or monarchist powers just doesnt fucking apply modern multiethnic democracies.
    Can you actually name any problems that are not made up bullshit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Milchshake View Post
    it’s mostly a syndicalist fantasy that “the workers” are going to rise up, which is disconnected from the fact that “the workers” are your racist uncle and jerk co-workers who you don’t like.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    The election has passed and 58 million working class Americans stood up and proved that they are in fact your racist uncle and jerk co-workers.
    They really can't help but show disdain for the working class.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    Can you actually name any problems that are not made up bullshit.
    That was already provided in the report.

  14. #34
    Merely a Setback JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arandomuser View Post
    neoliberalism is the only feasible pathway for liberals to win
    moving left always hurts us., i actually agree wtih corbyn on alot of the woke stuff, but his problematic stances on israel and foreign policy, not so woke, clear loser.
    That is because labour is not supposed to be a liberal party, but a leftwing one. You got the lib dems, why do you insist on changing labour parties across the world into rightwing, elite supporting,piles of crap
    Quote Originally Posted by Milchshake View Post
    it’s mostly a syndicalist fantasy that “the workers” are going to rise up, which is disconnected from the fact that “the workers” are your racist uncle and jerk co-workers who you don’t like.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    The election has passed and 58 million working class Americans stood up and proved that they are in fact your racist uncle and jerk co-workers.
    They really can't help but show disdain for the working class.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Milchshake View Post
    La Revolution needed to combat colonial or monarchist powers just doesnt fucking apply modern multiethnic democracies.
    im not sure what this means because its quite reductionist but its the same anti-capitalist struggle.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by arandomuser View Post
    neoliberalism is the only feasible pathway for liberals to win
    whats the point of running on the same platform as tories?

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    im not sure what this means because its quite reductionist but its the same anti-capitalist struggle.

    - - - Updated - - -



    whats the point of running on the same platform as tories?
    Well it would help the tories

  17. #37
    this is just a reaction to the guy who gave a speech in HP against Israel. So disgusting they support this country. I don't care what religion they are they are political criminals!

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Milchshake View Post
    I see it as Corbyn and his generation being stuck on a worldview from their heydays. Leftism needs to stop romanticising Castro or Arafat.

    La Revolution needed to combat colonial or monarchist powers just doesnt fucking apply modern multiethnic democracies.
    I disagree. The biggest issue facing Labour is a lack of any actual substantive policy platform. They’re just ‘the opposition’. Boris isn’t hated enough for that to work.

  19. #39
    Scarab Lord downnola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    I disagree. The biggest issue facing Labour is a lack of any actual substantive policy platform. They’re just ‘the opposition’. Boris isn’t hated enough for that to work.
    All of the piss and vinegar has gone out of the British left, or so I've heard.
    There is a limit to the success of conservative populism and the exploitation of "little guy" or "silent majority" rhetoric, and it is very often reached because of the emaciated, corrupted personalities of the demagogues themselves.
    - Christopher Hitchens

  20. #40
    Case in point, the DSA is basically hung up on romanticising Corbyn.

    Solidarity with Jeremy Corbyn. Thank you for always being a champion for the international working class.

    They wont endorse anyone for president. But they will take the time to stan some dude that's out.

    It's edgelord chic over policy.

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