Corbyn Suspended by Labour Over Discrimination Report

[sandstill]

From my recollection the scandal started when alleged Corbyn supporters kept tweeting anti-Semitic abuse at then MP Luciana Berger and he failed to do anything about it.

The only verifiable abuse of Luciana Berger was from neo-nazis.

To state the blindingly obvious, it isn't possible to identify individual twitter accounts. Any one can create them. It also isn't possible to detect their actual political affiliation. If they bother to hide their IP address, you can't detect their location, assuming twitter would give you that in the first place (they wouldn't). You have nothing.


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I am not in anyway denying that Corbyn wasn't betrayed by elements of his own party but that has very little to do with the problem of anti-Semitism in the Labour Party. It was within his power to take the easy W and make some obvious decisions but he chose not to and inturn make himself even more vulnerable to a hostile establishment.

And what would these actions be? Let me be frank. I don't think there were any actions he could have taken, but it would be very entertaining to hear you try and justify that statement. The media were out to smear him and, in the absence of any actual dirt they made some shit up, and people like you went along with it. You either badly misunderstood how these things work, or you are using some kind of post hoc rationalization to justify an arbitrary dislike of the man (despite you claiming to like him).

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Blair's disciples should have been very easy for him to counter, given how horrible the Iraq war has been and the long lasting consequences we've been suffering since.

I'd really like to see some of Corbyn's critics do better. Corbyn won two leadership elections, trebled the party membership, and wiped out the government's majority in 2017. The entire political establishment was against him including most of his own party. Do you really think it is that easy to overcome billions of pounds worth of corporate power?

Realistically most of the people who are saying "he should have done this" would have been removed from office in two months. I mean, prove me wrong, enter politics and show us all how easy it is. I'd be happy to be proved wrong if we could get an even vaguely competent social democratic government.

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Attacking people for being "zionists" is grade A anti-semitism, dude.

For the benefit of the spectacularly ignorant:

Zionism is a term used to describe an Israeli nationalist ideology. It is NOT an anti-semitic slur, nor is it perjorative: many call themselves Zionists.

All nationalist ideologies by definition are repudiated by the far left which focuses on the class, rather than the nationality, of the individual. Criticism of wahhabism (Saudi Islamic Extremism), American exceptionalism, Nazism or whig ideology (British nationalism) is not by definition racist or sectarian, and it would be ludicrous to suggest otherwise. Most left-wing British people who criticize Zionism oppose the conservative, warmongering ideology of their own state, that does not make them anglophobes. Indeed there are many actual Jews amongst the ranks of anti-Zionists including some holocaust survivors.

But thanks for blundering into this thread with your own ignorant opinion and giving further support to an unsubstantiated smear campaign. In other news we have 50,000 dead here because the public elected a fucking idiot, mainly due to this type of disinformation.

[Endus]

For the benefit of the spectacularly ignorant:

Zionism is a term used to describe an Israeli nationalist ideology. It is NOT an anti-semitic slur, nor is it perjorative: many call themselves Zionists.

All nationalist ideologies by definition are repudiated by the far left which focuses on the class, rather than the nationality, of the individual. Criticism of wahhabism (Saudi Islamic Extremism), American exceptionalism, Nazism or whig ideology (British nationalism) is not by definition racist or sectarian, and it would be ludicrous to suggest otherwise. Most left-wing British people who criticize Zionism oppose the conservative, warmongering ideology of their own state, that does not make them anglophobes. Indeed there are many actual Jews amongst the ranks of anti-Zionists including some holocaust survivors.

But thanks for blundering into this thread with your own ignorant opinion and giving further support to an unsubstantiated smear campaign. In other news we have 50,000 dead here because the public elected a fucking idiot, mainly due to this type of disinformation.

And when you use that term to describe someone, solely because they're Jewish, it becomes an anti-semitic slur. Literally all you're doing here is supporting and defending anti-semitism.

[sandstill]

And when you use that term to describe someone, solely because they're Jewish, it becomes an anti-semitic slur. Literally all you're doing here is supporting and defending anti-semitism.

Well done for completely missing the point, again.

He wasn't insulting her because she was Jewish. She's a well-known supporter of Israel and its policies.

[Endus]

Well done for completely missing the point, again.

He wasn't insulting her because she was Jewish. She's a well-known supporter of Israel and its policies.

I'm not gonna keep going back and forth on this.

You're engaging in willful historical ignorance about the use of "zionism" and "zionist" as a slur. It's been used to target Jewish people for persecution and, indeed, slaughter, for decades. That the label was used against her as a condemnation and insult is what makes it inherently anti-semitic. So yes; he was targeting her because she was Jewish.

https://www.ajc.org/anti-zionism-as-...f-antisemitism
https://torontosun.com/opinion/colum...-about-zionism

Context matters, and you're flatly trying to ignore it for some reason.

[Gestopft]

It's mostly because the population of staunch socialists in the US completely lack self awareness, and lack a lot of realization about US politics...

Oh, I get all that. I could nitpick a few things you said, but yes to the general point. The poster I was quoting has a LOOOONG history of taking a dump on the left whenever possible, instead of making the point like you have.

[sandstill]

I'm not gonna keep going back and forth on this.

You're engaging in willful historical ignorance about the use of "zionism" and "zionist" as a slur. It's been used to target Jewish people for persecution and, indeed, slaughter, for decades. That the label was used against her as a condemnation and insult is what makes it inherently anti-semitic. So yes; he was targeting her because she was Jewish.

Context matters, and you're flatly trying to ignore it for some reason.

Maybe that is because I actually live here, and am familiar with the British left, and you are not.

I find it quite astonishing you post a link from a Toronto newspaper and lecture me about context.

The fact that a term may be used to insult people does not mean that is a slur, especially when that is how Zionists, including the current leader of the British labour party, continue to describe themselves. It is a very simple logical point you are failing to grasp.

I don't really care about the Middle East either way and I suspect most labour activists don't either. However what are you supporting is extremely dangerous: the arbitrary censorship of any criticism of any nation's foreign policy. Oppose Iraq you must be an anti-British or anti-american racist. That's a great excuse for locking people up. That almost happened here. And you as a supposed leftist are supporting that extremely dangerous authoritarian solution. You yourself would be in jail were that logic applied to you.

[Endus]

Maybe that is because I actually live here, and am familiar with the British left, and you are not.

I find it quite astonishing you post a link from a Toronto newspaper and lecture me about context.

The fact that a term may be used to insult people does not mean that is a slur, especially when that is how Zionists, including the current leader of the British labour party, continue to describe themselves. It is a very simple logical point you are failing to grasp.

The context, here, is that "zionist", internally, only means that you support the survival of Israel as a Jewish state (though not necessarily exclusively so). If you're self-describing as "zionist", that's all it means.

If you have an issue with that, you're an anti-semite whose implicit goal is global Jewish genocide.

If you don't, you wouldn't use "zionist" as an accusation or insult.

I don't really care about the Middle East either way and I suspect most labour activists don't either. However what are you supporting is extremely dangerous: the arbitrary censorship of any criticism of any nation's foreign policy. Oppose Iraq you must be an anti-British or anti-american racist. That's a great excuse for locking people up. That almost happened here. And you as a supposed leftist are supporting that extremely dangerous authoritarian solution. You yourself would be in jail were that logic applied to you.

Oh, stuff it. I've spoken out multiple times before this about accusations of zionism. I've been highly critical of Israel myself; I think they regularly commit war crimes and are not held to sufficient global account for doing so. You're pissing into the wind, here.

[Orby]

The labour party as it stands is so broken, they are conservatives in labour cloths, labour hasn't been labour in years. I am not sure what happened but this country is fucked whatever way you screw it. :P

We need either a new major party or Labour needs to sort its shit out. I will not be voting Labour next time around and the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats can fuck off too.

[Saltysquidoon]

The problem is left-wing parties (or rather centre-left as labour parties tend to be) is they actually have ideological positions and so scandals like this actually open them up to attack by murdoch rags that actually damage their reputation. So it becomes politically expedient to take safer and safer (and evermore centre) positions to defend themselves.

Whereas rightwing parties (from my AU/NZ/UK experience) no matter what conservative position they pay lipservice to essentially only believe "muny gud, corporations gud, gubmit BAD" and are therefore not harmed by being openly infiltrated by hard-right elements (of whatever form).

That's why you have to be super careful with shit like this on both ends, you can't let these elements fester in your party. Equally, you can't let murdoch led witch hunts* turn public perception into any criticism of Israel = antisemitism.

*And let me say in no uncertain terms a couple of rando party nobodies and people on social media making antisemetic posts being allowed to become the media narrative of Jeremy Corbin supports antisemitism is the same tier of blatant witchhunt as "Jeremy Corbyn rides a bike so he's basically chairmen Mao".

[Milchshake]

Interesting!

Looks like Labor is cleaning up, suspending antisemites left, right and centre.



In the Red Wall, Boris Johnson has a negative rating of –3%, while Keir Starmer is on +18%.
But Conservatives still fare better on certain issues, like the economy and defence.

[sandstill]

Interesting!

Interesting!

Looks like Labor is cleaning up, suspending antisemites left, right and centre.



In the Red Wall, Boris Johnson has a negative rating of –3%, while Keir Starmer is on +18%.
But Conservatives still fare better on certain issues, like the economy and defence.

Oh dear.

I'll try to be nice here because it is unusual for americans to take an interest in anything outside their country. But when they do, as in the case, it is usually a pathetic attempt to transplant some domestic agenda onto a foreign country (I'm reminded of the non-existent muslim caliphate of Birmingham Republicans began frothing at the mouth about).

First, the numbers in the above picture *ONLY* concern red wall seats. Those are a relatively small number of seats in the north of England that traditionally vote Labour. They are important but they DO NOT decide who wins a general election, any more than Georgia or Pennsylvania decide presidential elections.

Improvement in the red wall seats would be encouraging for Labour...were Labour not losing hundreds of thousands members and voters elsewhere. Which they are.

The notion that red wall northern voters give a flying toss about anti-semitism is palpably ridiculous. Insofar as they do care, which they generally don't, 5% or so view Jews with extreme suspicion if not outright anti-semitism.

Now, the government HAS become significantly less popular. This is because they let more people die from covid relative to the population than in the US. Yes that is how bad our conservatives are, they make Trump look good. However, it is a testament to the utter uselessness of the current Labour leadership that they still trail in most national polls despite this. It is an astonishing feat of the modern center-left in the US and the UK that it struggled to defeat Donald Trump and trails behind Boris Johnson AFTER he let 50,000 people die.

To address what your subtext actual point here is, Biden's vapid neo-liberalism is not vindicated by events abroad any more than his dire showing against an almost literally incontinent incumbent in the US.

[Theodarzna]

Improvement in the red wall seats would be encouraging for Labour...were Labour not losing hundreds of thousands members and voters elsewhere. Which they are.

The notion that red wall northern voters give a flying toss about anti-semitism is palpably ridiculous. Insofar as they do care, which they generally don't, 5% or so view Jews with extreme suspicion if not outright anti-semitism.

Now, the government HAS become significantly less popular. This is because they let more people die from covid relative to the population than in the US. Yes that is how bad our conservatives are, they make Trump look good. However, it is a testament to the utter uselessness of the current Labour leadership that they still trail in most national polls despite this. It is an astonishing feat of the modern center-left in the US and the UK that it struggled to defeat Donald Trump and trails behind Boris Johnson AFTER he let 50,000 people die.

To address what your subtext actual point here is, Biden's vapid neo-liberalism is not vindicated by events abroad any more than his dire showing against an almost literally incontinent incumbent in the US.

Labours entire defeat can be traced entirely to having a muddled view on Brexit. Given Starmer is purging Jews critical of Israeli policy, this whole claim about "Anti-Semitism" is completely fraudulent. This is nothing short of a Blairite coup to drive the Left out of the party.

[JohnBrown1917]

Oh dear.

I'll try to be nice here because it is unusual for americans to take an interest in anything outside their country. But when they do, as in the case, it is usually a pathetic attempt to transplant some domestic agenda onto a foreign country (I'm reminded of the non-existent muslim caliphate of Birmingham Republicans began frothing at the mouth about).

First, the numbers in the above picture *ONLY* concern red wall seats. Those are a relatively small number of seats in the north of England that traditionally vote Labour. They are important but they DO NOT decide who wins a general election, any more than Georgia or Pennsylvania decide presidential elections.

Improvement in the red wall seats would be encouraging for Labour...were Labour not losing hundreds of thousands members and voters elsewhere. Which they are.

The notion that red wall northern voters give a flying toss about anti-semitism is palpably ridiculous. Insofar as they do care, which they generally don't, 5% or so view Jews with extreme suspicion if not outright anti-semitism.

Now, the government HAS become significantly less popular. This is because they let more people die from covid relative to the population than in the US. Yes that is how bad our conservatives are, they make Trump look good. However, it is a testament to the utter uselessness of the current Labour leadership that they still trail in most national polls despite this. It is an astonishing feat of the modern center-left in the US and the UK that it struggled to defeat Donald Trump and trails behind Boris Johnson AFTER he let 50,000 people die.

To address what your subtext actual point here is, Biden's vapid neo-liberalism is not vindicated by events abroad any more than his dire showing against an almost literally incontinent incumbent in the US.

Its onestly a waste of time to try and convince him of anything, he will believe all the left-leaning labour members where anti-semitic to his death.

...and probably something about Corbyn drinking the blood of baby jews before bed.

[sandstill]

Its onestly a waste of time to try and convince him of anything, he will believe all the left-leaning labour members where anti-semitic to his death.

...and probably something about Corbyn drinking the blood of baby jews before bed.

Yeah exactly...the irony is that Corbyn probably has done more to combat anti-semitism than most politicians, even the Jewish ones criticizing him.

Here's a small, non-comprehensive list of things Corbyn did to combat anti-semitism:


Corbyn organised the Apr. 1977 defence of Jewish populated Wood Green from a Neo-Nazi march
EDM3933 7 Nov. 1990: Corbyn signs motion condemning the rise of antisemitism
EDM634, 11 Apr. 2000: Jeremy Corbyn signs motion condemning David Irving for being a Holocaust Denier
EDM1124, 6 Nov. 2000: Jeremy Corbyn praised the ‘British Schindler’, Bill Barazetti, for his WW2 kindertransport
EDM742, 28 Jan. 2002: Jeremy Corbyn signs motion praising football clubs for commemorating Holocaust Day
EDM1233 30 Apr. 2002: Corbyn was a primary sponsor on a motion condemning antisemitism
11 May 2002: Jeremy led a clean up of Finsbury Park Synagogue after an anti-Semitic attack
EDM1691, 23 July 2002: Corbyn condemned attacks on a synagogue in Swansea
EDM123 26 Nov. 2003: Corbyn officially condemns attacks on 2 Istanbul synagogues
EDM298, 16 Dec. 2003: Jeremy Corbyn signs motion commemorating International Holocaust Day
2004: Jeremy condemned news that anti-Semitic hate crimes had risen for yet another year
EDM461, 21 Jan. 2004: Jeremy Corbyn condemned the French government’s moves to ban the Jewish Kippah in French Schools
EDM717, 26 Feb. 2004: Jeremy signed a motion praising Simon Wiesenthal for bringing Nazi perpetrators of the Holocaust to justice
EDM1613, 8 Sept. 2004: Corbyn co-sponsored a bill expressing fears for the future of the United Synagogue Pension Scheme
EDM1699, 11 Oct. 2004: Jeremy Corbyn condemned arbitrary attacks on civilians in Israel and Palestine
EDM482, 12 Jan. 2005: Jeremy Corbyn signs a motion commemorating International Holocaust Day
EDM343, 16 June 2005: Jeremy condemned the desecration of a Jewish cemetery in east London
EDM1343, 11 Jan. 2006: Jeremy Corbyn signs a motion commemorating International Holocaust Day
EDM1774, 8 Mar. 2006: Jeremy Corbyn led condemnations of an Iranian Magazine soliciting cartoons about the Holocaust
EDM1267, 16 Apr. 2006: Jeremy Corbyn condemned Bryan Ferry for anti-Semitic remarks
EDM2414, 26 June 2006: Jeremy Corbyn praised British war veterans for their efforts to combat the Holocaust
EDM2705, 10 Oct. 2006: Jeremy signed a motion marking the 70th anniversary of Cable Street
EDM271, 14 Nov. 2007: Jeremy co-sponsored a motion lamenting the poverty and social exclusion East London Jews suffered
EDM153, 12 May 2008: Corbyn praised the efforts of the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto during the uprising of 1944
EDM2350, 27 Oct 2008: Jeremy Corbyn signs a motion marking the 70th anniversary of the horrors of the holocaust
EDM173, 8 Dec. 2008: Jeremy condemned the Press Complaints Commission for refusing to sanction The Times for antisemitism
EDM461, 14 Jan. 2009: Jeremy Corbyn condemned a wave of recent anti-Semitic incidents targeted
EDM605, 27 Jan. 2009: Corbyn signed John Mann’s motion condemning antisemitism on university campuses
EDM917 26 Feb. 2009: Jeremy signs a motion condemning antisemitism on the internet
EDM1175 24 Mar. 2009: Corbyn signs a motion praising the heroism of British Jews during Holocaust
EDM337, 2 Dec. 2009: Jeremy Condemned Iran’s treatment of Jewish minorities in Iran
EDM850 9 Feb. 2010: Jeremy joins in calls for Facebook to do more to fight antisemitism
EDM891: 22 Feb 2010: Corbyn co-sponsors a motion calling for Yemen’s Jews to be given refugee status to the UK
EDM908 27 Oct. 2010: Corbyn praises work of late Israeli PM in his pursuit of a 2 state solution
EDM1360, 27 Jan. 2011: Corbyn co-sponsored a motion praising the ‘never again for anyone initiative’
EDM1527, 3 Mar. 2011: Corbyn backed Ian Paisley’s motion condemning the anti-Semitic remarks of Dior’s lead fashion designer
EDM2870, 14 Mar. 2012: Jeremy Corbyn condemned the sale of Nazi memorabilia at an auction in Bristol
EDM2866, 14 Mar 2012: Jeremy Corbyn co-sponsored a bill condemning the rise of antisemitism in Lithuania
EDM2899, 20 Mar. 2012, Jeremy Corbyn condemned a terrorist attack on a Jewish school in Toulouse
EDM168, 12 June 2012, Jeremy co-sponsored a motion condemning anti-Semitic attacks during EURO 2012 in Poland
EDM 195 13 June 2012: Jeremy attacks BBC for cutting Jewish programmes from Its schedule
EDM 1133 1 Mar 2013: Corbyn joins a chorus of calls condemning antisemitism In sport
1 Oct. 2013: Corbyn was one of the few MPs who defended Ralph Miliband from Daily Mail antisemitism
EDM 932 9 Jan 2014: Jeremy praises Holocaust Memorial’s work on antisemitism education
EDM 165 22 June 2015: Jeremy condemns a Neo-Nazi rally planned for a Jewish area of London
Sat 4 July 2015: Jeremy co-planned a counter-fascist demo in defence of Jewish residents at Golders Green. The march was re-routed
18 Nov. 2015, Corbyn used one of his first PMQs to challenge Cameron to do more on antisemitism
9 Oct 2016: Corbyn, close to tears, leads commemoration of the Battle of Cable Street
3 Dec. 2016: Corbyn visits Terezin Concentration Camp to commemorate Holocaust victims
In 2017-19 Jeremy introduced 20 new measures to combat antisemitism in the Labour Party

I wonder what people like Milchshake have done to combat anti-semitism? I strongly suspect, nothing.

[Theodarzna]

Its onestly a waste of time to try and convince him of anything, he will believe all the left-leaning labour members where anti-semitic to his death.

...and probably something about Corbyn drinking the blood of baby jews before bed.

The fact that Starmer is expelling Jewish Socialists from the party confirms how utterly BS all of this is.

[JohnBrown1917]

Left wing parties throughout the west are taking a big step to the right arent they. Good use of a pandemic I guess.

In europe that mostly happend in the '90s(Labour, Dutch Labour, French Socialist party and the German SPD etc..). Its just that Corbyn managed to take away the power the blairites held and return Labour to its roots.. and you saw what the reaction was.

[sandstill]

This just gets worse and worse. Now Labour has suspended a Jewish activist....for anti-semitism....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HXW8MeJ8YU