The intent of Sylvanas revealed today?

[Soon-TM]

Saurfang was the only good thing about BfA! Of course I don't expect Sylvanas to understand what honor means, because honor to her just means "get on her, and stay on her!"

The only good thing about BfA was Bwonsamdi, especially when he trolls (pun not really intended) the everliving $#&@ out of you.

I might have liked Saurfang if he had challenged Sylvanas immediately after Teldrassil. He would have probably been killed anyway, but the death of such a major figure could have easily prompted the Horde to rebel. However, the way things eventually happened, he remained pitifully passive - something quite jarring for a guy of action who loved to blather about MUH HONORZ. He didn't lift a finger until he received the God King (and personal psychoanalyst) 's green light, because there cannot be any positive actions that the Golden Boi isn't involved in, somehow.

In short, he was nothing but a cheerleader to Anduin Sue, and that's my biggest grip with the way he was written in BfA.

[rogueMatthias]

Apparently life and death are not fair and with the jailer this can all be controlled?

So that's been the intent this whole time? If jailer is a good boi I'd be down.

Surely the fact you can die permanently in the Shadowlands makes this entirely moot.

She's controlling "life and death" until she gets to the Shadowlands, then she has the same problem as she had in the first place.

[bagina]

The only good thing about BfA was Bwonsamdi, especially when he trolls (pun not really intended) the everliving $#&@ out of you.

I might have liked Saurfang if he had challenged Sylvanas immediately after Teldrassil. He would have probably been killed anyway, but the death of such a major figure could have easily prompted the Horde to rebel. However, the way things eventually happened, he remained pitifully passive - something quite jarring for a guy of action who loved to blather about MUH HONORZ. He didn't lift a finger until he received the God King (and personal psychoanalyst) 's green light, because there cannot be any positive actions that the Golden Boi isn't involved in, somehow.

In short, he was nothing but a cheerleader to Anduin Sue, and that's my biggest grip with the way he was written in BfA.

This. Also Baine. That whole shit was painful. They had no balls whatsoever. Add Lorthemar to the mix as well. Now I just realized, the members of the Horde council are slowly becoming one person. Soon there will be no difference between their personalities at all.

[Soon-TM]

This. Also Baine. That whole shit was painful. They had no balls whatsoever. Add Lorthemar to the mix as well. Now I just realized, the members of the Horde council are slowly becoming one person. Soon there will be no difference between their personalities at all.

I think it was @Super Dickmann who aptly described this process as "anduinisation".

[Jujudrood]

This is Blizz, so knowing what they are planning is a toss up, but maybe they try to pull an M Night Shyamalamalamala twist, calling back to stories they've already written because, well, that's what they do.

Sylvanas's intent is to take the power of the Jailer herself and become basically a god.

We go to Shadowlands and we are fed stories about how the Jailer is evil and bad and wants to destroy and consume everything, so we work to weaken his hold and eventually defeat him.
Then it turns out he was the only thing holding the balance of life and death together, so with his defeat, Sylvanas absorbs his power and becomes the REAL end boss threat, using his power to actually be the all-consuming evil (see: Garrosh).
That's when Arthas, riding a silver stallion of death, comes in and helps the players defeat her, then Arthas takes up the mantle of The Jailer as his eternal redemption as he holds life and death in balance (see: Illidan).

Happy-ish ending, redemption of a past evil, conquering the multi-expansion threat that is Sylvanas (see: Gul'Dan), and everyone who survives (because some lore characters have to bite it for realz) get to leave, only to see that while they spent months campaigning in SL, YEARS have passed in the land of the living and we get our time skip, world revamp, new lore characters, etc etc.

[Aggressive]

Apparently life and death are not fair and with the jailer this can all be controlled?

So that's been the intent this whole time? If jailer is a good boi I'd be down.

The Jailer is a crazy Bitch just like Sylvanas. They belong together. Hopefully we will get a chance to kill them both in Shadowlands

[rowaasr13]

So, how does Halls of Valor play in all this? Because Bastion looks literally like HoV 2.0 and HoV themselves are like some titanic beta version knockoff, where Odyn steals souls for himself against SL order.

- - - Updated - - -

come on, saying sylvanas is whining about not getting her way is completely inaccurate and egregiously oversimplifying things. when you get pulled from the peace of death with horrific pain and turned into a banshee, forced to work for the guy who killed you and is now holding you in captivity, all while having to murder your own former comrades...that's a fate worse than death.

...so it's only natural for her to pull others from the peace of death with horrific pain and turned into a undead, forced to work for the lichbitch who killed them and is now holding them in captivity, all while having to murder your own former comrades..

[Super Dickmann]

I think it was @Super Dickmann who aptly described this process as "anduinisation".

We are all one in the God-King. There's been a rare Schadenfreude in watching people realizing this as they look at the Shadowlands launch content, from our whole objective being freeing Anduin to Bolvar calling him his king and promising to bring the Maw closer to reality if only he could find Anduin.

[rowaasr13]

No, the latter would be even more fucked up. As was Devos' perspective. Death follows life, that's just how it is. Every living being moves on a trajectory of from the cradle to the grave and end that trajectory is a god complex at best and pure unbridled malignant narcissism and utter stupidity at worst.

People dying is a good thing for progress as it means that their ideas and ways of doing things will be replaced by the ideas and ways of doing things by the next generation. It's how a society progresses and evolves. The longer you live the more conservative you are since you wish to cling to the things being as you remember them instead of letting them change because change is scary.

So deep. Guess we need to murdershit the hell out of all those progress impeding Draenei, Night Elves, remaining dragons and other ancient beings. For good and progress of Azeroth!

[Feanoro]

So deep. Guess we need to murdershit the hell out of all those progress impeding Draenei, Night Elves, remaining dragons and other ancient beings. For good and progress of Azeroth!

Take comfort in knowing you're not alone in thinking what you quoted is completely fucked in the head.

[msmollymillions]

Illidan

Illidan went from a final boss to our best buddy anti-hero.

Kerrigan also went from super evil to bestest buddy in SC2.

So deep. Guess we need to murdershit the hell out of all those progress impeding Draenei, Night Elves, remaining dragons and other ancient beings. For good and progress of Azeroth!

we've been murdershitting our way through every storyline to date? you expect it to go any different? Have we ever had a quest where we could decided to take the non violent route?! "No I'm not going to kill these kobolds, but instead reason with them!"

Once a murderhobo, always a murderhobo.

[Soon-TM]

So deep. Guess we need to murdershit the hell out of all those progress impeding Draenei, Night Elves, remaining dragons and other ancient beings. For good and progress of Azeroth!

Tbh there were a few hints during Vanilla about NEs being impeded by their strongly conservative and militaristic society, ditto in BC about Draenei. However, there never was really any followup in the case of NEs - and in the case of Draenei, all of a sudden they had developed a brand interdimensional, laser armed, Starcraft-like battlecruiser.

[Varodoc]

Illidan

Illidan went from a final boss to our best buddy anti-hero.

Kerrigan also went from super evil to bestest buddy in SC2.



we've been murdershitting our way through every storyline to date? you expect it to go any different? Have we ever had a quest where we could decided to take the non violent route?! "No I'm not going to kill these kobolds, but instead reason with them!"

Once a murderhobo, always a murderhobo.

Kerrigan was never evil, she was influenced by Amon.

[Wazooty]

Kerrigan was never evil, she was influenced by Amon.

No sufficiently cool villain is ever responsible for their own actions in Blizzard lore. They were always influenced by a far more generic and final mission/raid boss friendly baddie.

[Elestia]

Speculation about the Jailer's motives or intentions literally don't apply (because they're absurdly obvious / 50iq required to contemplate) and at this point Sylvannas' intentions and motives literally have ceased to actually matter. She is aligned with the evil, regardless of her attempts to subvert or control the Jailer, the outcome is ultimately pointless other than telling the story of how she's going to ultimately fail.

There's literally nothing interesting or nuanced or profound to read into. There are no'aha!s'.

And if there are, Blizz will have created the most unsatisfying endings in gaming period.

[Aresk]

we've been murdershitting our way through every storyline to date? you expect it to go any different? Have we ever had a quest where we could decided to take the non violent route?! "No I'm not going to kill these kobolds, but instead reason with them!"

There's the Horde's Battle for Lordaeron stage where they can elect to fight people or save people. There are several quests (mostly world quests) where filling the % progress bar can be done by interacting with objects instead of fighting mobs. Numerous quests require no violence at all, but it's not in lieu of a non-violent route (gather these things, deliver this item, etc.). Ultimately of course the decisions don't change the outcome, because the state of the world doesn't generally differ player to player (aside from things like phasing where one person is simply behind progress compared to another).

[Varodoc]

No sufficiently cool villain is ever responsible for their own actions in Blizzard lore. They were always influenced by a far more generic and final mission/raid boss friendly baddie.

She does feel responsible for what she's done, and she decides to take up the burden of Xel'naga precisely to atone for her crimes, but at the same time it's important to remember that she wasn't really herself as the Queen of Blades. She was being influenced by her Zerg mutagen.

The problem here is that some people think becoming Xel'naga was a reward for Kerrigan. It wasn't. It was the actual redemption arc. Kerrigan did NOT want that power, but she took it up anyway to atone for the trillions of people she murdered (even though she was being influenced).

[HitRefresh]

But, doesn't that mean that neither Ner'zhul or Arthas were responsible for their actions? If so, then why did Arthas go to the Maw(no clue about Ner'zhul)? He shouldn't be held responsible for something someone else made him do.

I think that's a big plot point. Uther damned Arthas to the Maw. The Arbiter never got to judge him.

[Soon-TM]

I think that's a big plot point. Uther damned Arthas to the Maw. The Arbiter never got to judge him.

And possibly Uther and his BFF Devos (sp?) !@#$ed it up big time by doing so. But Uther has already the perfect alibi, i.e. his soul was torn in two so he wasn't really responsible for his actions

[Feanoro]

Given that the rules change with every new piece of SL lore, Uther won't be responsible one minute and will be the next.