1. #1
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Role of DOJ: Trump rape accuser 'stunned' at DOJ no-show at court hearing

    Here is the length the justice department has gone under Trump. In politics, should DOJ be this involved? Is this going too far?

    Role of DOJ: Trump rape accuser 'stunned' at DOJ no-show at court hearing
    https://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment...ments-73737961
    A woman who has accused President Donald Trump of raping her in the 1990s said she was stunned and speechless after the Justice Department on Wednesday turned down an opportunity to make oral arguments on whether Trump can substitute the United States for himself as the defendant in her defamation lawsuit.

    E. Jean Carroll watched from a seat in the top row of a jury box as U.S. District Judge Lewis A. Kaplan gave a government lawyer a chance to argue by phone, after the lawyer who was supposed to argue in person was banned from the courthouse because he traveled from Virginia. New York requires visitors from Virginia to quarantine for 14 days.

    William Lane, a Department of Justice civil division attorney, told the judge the government would rest on its papers, meaning it would rely solely on already submitted written arguments.

    “I’m stunned, stunned, and actually speechless, which is unusual,” Carroll told reporters outside the courthouse.

    Attorney Roberta Kaplan, an attorney for Carroll, said it was a “shocking scenario for the government to just, essentially surrender, and not even try to argue the case.”

    Carroll’s lawyers offered to answer any questions the judge might have, but he did not ask any.

    “Frankly, I’m astonished at what happened today. In decades of litigating in courtrooms throughout the country, I’ve never seen the Department of Justice decline to make an oral argument when all that it meant here would be having to argue by phone,” she told reporters.
    MODS: This is a thread about the role DOJ plays in the federal government, using Trump’s case as an example. This is not a Trump thread.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Here is a Fox News article from just February, detailing why Bill Clinton running into the last head of DOJ on a tarmac was a problem:

    New book reveals explosive details about Loretta Lynch-Bill Clinton tarmac meeting
    https://www.foxnews.com/media/lorett...eting-new-book

    Where is the line?
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  2. #2
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    To answer your first question: the DOJ is not supposed to be the presidents personal lawyer. Especially when it comes to defending the president against accusations that came from before he was even president.

    As far as the case at hand... as far as I understand from this it seems the DOJ is all but throwing in the towel. Maybe Barr, of all people, has seen the writing on the wall or perhaps gotten sick of Trump throwing him under the bus?
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
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    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  3. #3
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    To answer your first question: the DOJ is not supposed to be the presidents personal lawyer. Especially when it comes to defending the president against accusations that came from before he was even president.

    As far as the case at hand... as far as I understand from this it seems the DOJ is all but throwing in the towel. Maybe Barr, of all people, has seen the writing on the wall or perhaps gotten sick of Trump throwing him under the bus?
    Yeah, the judge shut them down, because this is ludicrous. But, it highlights the shift in the role DOJ is serving.

    It’s why I wanted to create a juxtaposition with the Loretta Lynch tarmac story, which Fox saw as relevant as late as February of this year. It feels like this is the remnant of the role DOJ played, before its current iteration. It’s going to be interesting if it’s current role will be a precedent or if we return to asserting conspiracy when DOJ and those around the executive branch, appear too close.
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    That which is Below corresponds to that which is Above, and that which is Above corresponds to that which is Below, to accomplish the miracle of the One Thing.

  4. #4
    "said she was stunned and speechless after the Justice Department on Wednesday turned down an opportunity to make oral arguments on whether Trump can substitute the United States for himself as the defendant in her defamation lawsuit."

    I'm stunned and speechless too. Am I really hearing that correctly that Trump wants to have The United States as the defendant she is accusing of rape? As in, rather that Donald Trump, the man, raping her, making the court case about how The United States raped her? How in the friggity-frack does that worK?

    Even if he was the president at the time of the accusation there is no logic in that.
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    So this is how far the Lore forum has fallen? Eesh.
    I take it back, BfA is not the lowest the games lore could have gone, this thread proves that.
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    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    I'm stunned and speechless too. Am I really hearing that correctly that Trump wants to have The United States as the defendant she is accusing of rape? As in, rather that Donald Trump, the man, raping her, making the court case about how The United States raped her? How in the friggity-frack does that worK?
    The DoJ's argument was that he defamed her during his duties as president (answering questions from reporters during a press briefing IIRC). The judge rejected that argument saying something akin to, "Defaming people isn't part of the presidents duties."
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  6. #6
    Merely a Setback Breccia's Avatar
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    I thought this was already settled?

    Judge says Justice Department cannot defend Trump in E. Jean Carroll rape defamation suit

    That's from 3 days ago, what changed?

    (checks OP)

    Oh, your article predates that.

  7. #7
    High Overlord Gerron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    The DoJ's argument was that he defamed her during his duties as president (answering questions from reporters during a press briefing IIRC). The judge rejected that argument saying something akin to, "Defaming people isn't part of the presidents duties."
    Yep, the DOJ is trying to get the trial over as quickly as possible because they're just going to appeal it on the basis of their calm and as with every other Trump lawsuit it'll be pushed up to the SC.

    Also no the DOJ shouldn't be acting as the personal lawyers for the President. A President can and often does have personal lawyers (Trump has many) and if they do something that is outside of their duties (personally attacking a person on twitter) then they should be held accountable like any other citizen would be.
    Last edited by Gerron; 2020-11-01 at 05:27 PM.

  8. #8
    Merely a Setback Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerron View Post
    Also no the DOJ shouldn't be acting as the personal lawyers for the President.
    Two things.
    1) I thought we'd already decided they couldn't.
    2) if the case isn't over by the time Biden takes office, he'll yank them off the case anyhow.

  9. #9
    High Overlord Gerron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Two things.
    1) I thought we'd already decided they couldn't.
    2) if the case isn't over by the time Biden takes office, he'll yank them off the case anyhow.
    I thought it was already decided too but here we are and yeah I would hope that the DOJ under Biden would force Trump to represent himself in that case. He's got until January to stall though.

  10. #10
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Two things.
    1) I thought we'd already decided they couldn't.
    2) if the case isn't over by the time Biden takes office, he'll yank them off the case anyhow.
    If Biden wins the doj won't wait until he takes office too abandon Trump's legal woes. I would imagine most of the career professionals are embarrassed to even be a part of those shenanigans.
    #TRE45ON - Trump's idiocy is refreshing its duration, but it doesn't stack.
    Edit: I think it's stacking now.

  11. #11
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Here is something posted in another thread that relates to this:

    Quote Originally Posted by arandomuser View Post
    https://www.newsweek.com/protesters-...-biden-1543842
    lollol
    no one has done as much as barr to protect trump from criminal liability and impeachment, but his supporters think hes part of the deep state because they wanted a comey weiner laptop moment and he actually ended up being less of a hack than comey, so they are dissapointed
    Is this a bigger issue of the role of DOJ simply be misunderstood by the public?
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    That which is Below corresponds to that which is Above, and that which is Above corresponds to that which is Below, to accomplish the miracle of the One Thing.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    If Biden wins the doj won't wait until he takes office too abandon Trump's legal woes. I would imagine most of the career professionals are embarrassed to even be a part of those shenanigans.
    When the election is over and decided the accuser will probably just disappear like all the ones that happened the last time around the election. I have no idea of the validity of the accusation, but I do find it funny that they all seem to come in the election years only.

  13. #13
    Merely a Setback Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silveth View Post
    I do find it funny that they all seem to come in the election years only.
    You mean like Hunter Biden's laptop?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    "said she was stunned and speechless after the Justice Department on Wednesday turned down an opportunity to make oral arguments on whether Trump can substitute the United States for himself as the defendant in her defamation lawsuit."

    I'm stunned and speechless too. Am I really hearing that correctly that Trump wants to have The United States as the defendant she is accusing of rape? As in, rather that Donald Trump, the man, raping her, making the court case about how The United States raped her? How in the friggity-frack does that worK?

    Even if he was the president at the time of the accusation there is no logic in that.
    No, Trump wanted to make the United States the defendant in the Defamation Lawsuit she filed against him. That way he could use the full resources of the DOJ to make the case against her. Also it would make it look like she was suing the country instead of him personally. And, if he lost, it would the be US that foots the bill instead of him.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by silveth View Post
    When the election is over and decided the accuser will probably just disappear like all the ones that happened the last time around the election. I have no idea of the validity of the accusation, but I do find it funny that they all seem to come in the election years only.
    Hmm, if trump had just given the sample, this would have been over long before the election. The case started 10 months ago. The claim happened in 2019, not an election year. Dishonest deflection just makes your character more apparent.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by silveth View Post
    When the election is over and decided the accuser will probably just disappear like all the ones that happened the last time around the election. I have no idea of the validity of the accusation, but I do find it funny that they all seem to come in the election years only.
    Her accusation actually came out in 2019.

  17. #17
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silveth View Post
    When the election is over and decided the accuser will probably just disappear like all the ones that happened the last time around the election. I have no idea of the validity of the accusation, but I do find it funny that they all seem to come in the election years only.
    They don't. The accusers (all 30+ now - all rape accusations btw) "disappear" because they and their families are threatened with violence and death. When the election is over, Trump will be properly prosecuted for his crimes and misdeeds. Unless he flees the country.

    Question for you: how many "false" accusations have other people endured where it turned out all of them were "just making it up"? Trump is well over 30 individual accusations, in case you haven't kept track.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    Her accusation actually came out in 2019.
    Whoops. @silveth - do facts matter to you any more?
    #TRE45ON - Trump's idiocy is refreshing its duration, but it doesn't stack.
    Edit: I think it's stacking now.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    They don't. The accusers (all 30+ now - all rape accusations btw) "disappear" because they and their families are threatened with violence and death. When the election is over, Trump will be properly prosecuted for his crimes and misdeeds. Unless he flees the country.

    Question for you: how many "false" accusations have other people endured where it turned out all of them were "just making it up"? Trump is well over 30 individual accusations, in case you haven't kept track.
    If we're talking about all accusations, the first rape accusation against trump was in the 90s even before his first attempt at running for president.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  19. #19
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    If we're talking about all accusations, the first rape accusation against trump was in the 90s even before his first attempt at running for president.
    Exactly. And considering all his other illegal activity, his affiliation with pedophiles, and the multiple accusations, it would be disingenuous not to take them seriously.
    #TRE45ON - Trump's idiocy is refreshing its duration, but it doesn't stack.
    Edit: I think it's stacking now.

  20. #20
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silveth View Post
    When the election is over and decided the accuser will probably just disappear like all the ones that happened the last time around the election. I have no idea of the validity of the accusation, but I do find it funny that they all seem to come in the election years only.
    Uhm... This is an accuser from decades ago. Trump brought it up, breaking his own NDA a couple of years ago. The recent development and the point of the thread, is the role DOJ played in defending Trump. The US should not be made liable for crimes of any president. That’s just fucked up...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Whoops. @silveth - do facts matter to you any more?
    They don’t even know he had 26 accusers before ever running for president and two since then. Including one of his campaign staff accusing him. Both of them dropped their case, due to Trump supporters death threats against them. This case wasn’t dropped and Trump attempted to hold US liable. It failed... but, will DOJ be asked to step in when debt is up in 2022?
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    That which is Below corresponds to that which is Above, and that which is Above corresponds to that which is Below, to accomplish the miracle of the One Thing.

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