Forsaken Dark Ranger/Undead Elf Discussion Megathread

[deviantcultist]

Give Dark Ranger class.

No matter how you look at it, reskining Hunter won't give us Dark Ranger. It isn't random that Legion had talents dedicated to it that got removed after.

[loras]

Give Dark Ranger class.

No matter how you look at it, reskining Hunter won't give us Dark Ranger. It isn't random that Legion had talents dedicated to it that got removed after.

It's also not random that hunter has had many dark ranger abilities over the year.
Just face it - there's not enough meat on the concept to even properly outfit a full class.

[Vaedan]

says that the options presented are fine

He said undead option for blood elves would be best and your options would.work too. There are more posters asking for that option or saying that would be best, so you are not right.

[deviantcultist]

It's also not random that hunter has had many dark ranger abilities over the year.
Just face it - there's not enough meat on the concept to even properly outfit a full class.

We definitely have more than what Demon Hunter had back then before it became a class. Also we don't know how the Dark Ranger concept may evolve before it becomes playable, just like how Arthas changed from his first DK iteration to his Lich King form.

We might not have that much yet, but we have much more than simply reskinning Hunter.

[Garfurion]

A major problem for playable undead high elves is that they can't procreate normally so they need corpes and neither the Horde Blood Elves nor the Alliance High/Void Elves will like it if one of their allies starts resurrecting their family members. That's why you don't see large numbers of non Human Forsaken. If Orcs or Tauren had been ok with Sylvanas resurrecting their dead she would have done it.

The current undead high elves that are members of the Forsaken were probably all resurrected by Arthas as part of the Scourge and later regained their free will.

[shoc]

If you suspend your belief just a tiny bit you could get away with your female Forsaken being a dead High Elf. I am not sure how anyone would be supposed to tell the difference in reality anyways. The visibility of ears or lack thereof doesn't really do anything. At least from spending 5 mins in the Wowhead dressing room tells me Forsaken Dark Ranger is already a reality. Whether its an Elf or not can be up to you, that is the beauty of RP.

[Rhlor]

He said undead option for blood elves would be best and your options would.work too. There are more posters asking for that option or saying that would be best, so you are not right.

Maybe he says he likes that, but he is fine with the other options so it is something positive for this thread

[Phaelia]

I want to talk about this, but there’s literally no point to it because this thread has a bias to it at the start. Dark Ranger options should be Blood Elf customizations. Full stop.

[Nowhere886]

After all, Arthas victims during WC3 were mainly humans and high elves. Forsaken leader was an undead elf till 5 minutes ago. It would make sense. I hope them to become a forsaken themed allied race (maybe lead by Velonara)

[Rhlor]

After all, Arthas victims during WC3 were mainly humans and high elves. Forsaken leader was an undead elf till 5 minutes ago. It would make sense. I hope them to become a forsaken themed allied race (maybe lead by Velonara)

Allied race is a likely choice

[Triceron]

Allied race is a likely choice

The issue I have with an Allied Race out of this is that it's specific to one class; Dark Ranger. There isn't really much nuance to it otherwise. There'd be more flexibility with a more pronounced racial concept like San'layn.

Now granted, Allied Races in general are fairly non-specific to class and some barely have any identity to them at all, I think that this combination is more akin to the Wildhammer situation where it's just easier completely ignoring and leaving as secondary customizations to existing Races. So if you want an Undead Elf, then you can roll an Elven Death Knight. If you want a Dark Ranger, then it'd be best if we had a Dark Ranger class that give all races the DK treatment.

It's the more elegant alternative.

Kinda like if people start asking for playable Fel Orcs, I'd rather just see them open up DH class to the Orcs or give Warlock some unique customization options (I mean, they deserve to be thrown a bone given all the gutting they've done to the class)

[Kaver]

actually dark ranger are high elf undead

Do we need two threads then?

[Vaedan]

The issue I have with an Allied Race out of this is that it's specific to one class; Dark Ranger. There isn't really much nuance to it otherwise. There'd be more flexibility with a more pronounced racial concept like San'layn.

Now granted, Allied Races in general are fairly non-specific to class and some barely have any identity to them at all, I think that this combination is more akin to the Wildhammer situation where it's just easier completely ignoring and leaving as secondary customizations to existing Races. So if you want an Undead Elf, then you can roll an Elven Death Knight. If you want a Dark Ranger, then it'd be best if we had a Dark Ranger class that give all races the DK treatment.

It's the more elegant alternative.

Kinda like if people start asking for playable Fel Orcs, I'd rather just see them open up DH class to the Orcs or give Warlock some unique customization options (I mean, they deserve to be thrown a bone given all the gutting they've done to the class)

It depends on what you actually want. Do you want to play specificaly Dark Ranger? Good, then a new class is the answer. Do you want to play undead elf? Allied race/new customizations is the answer. One does not really exclude the other. I agree that if we are talking about new race or racial customizations for either blood elves or forsaken, we should not call it dark ranger, since these options would be available to all classes that race have.

The question is if there should be new class in WoW. DH already have only two specs and they can fullfil two roles in the party. Dark Rangers could really be only DPS, so design space is even more limited for them. Sure, there is no stealthed ranged spec atm, but that's the only unique thing I can come with. While I'm not opposed to the idea of new class, I think we already have enough of them and I'd be actually more interested in class skins for existing classes/specs, like Purifier/Inquisitor for shadow priests, Priestess of the Moon, troll headhunter or Dark Rangers. That is a feature with potential, if handled well.

[Alanar]

I see many feastable options, so there isnt one awsner for this. Ithink its fair to say its been a topic that keep returning every time and to also have its own thread.

I think as customination option it would work, but I rather see blizzard expand on the dark ranger fantasy.. its been 15 years of sylvanas and her dark rangers and I feel there is enough to pull from. They did this with demon hunters, who were a rogue/lock combination as argument for years, dark ranger imo are on the same boat and could potentially be more then just a skin.

I think it would be cool to vibe on the banshee part and add in a.couple of Sylvanas and Nathanos abillities.

Ideas:
* smokey teleport like sylvanss ( build in fade spriest talent for a shorter period) this would feel like the sylvanas teleport in the bolvar cinematic where she was still able to dodge the massive rock)
* summon blight hound/spider ( think about dreadstalker type of skill)
*banshee form
( become a banshee for a short period of time)
Adds a couple of new abillities on your bar.
* inhabbit- mc type of skill ( but without the part your own character stand still to cast it) you actually dissapear into your target becoming him/her for a short period of time.
*banshee scream- short knockback/splash damage
* feint death could also have a diffent take where you leave your body for example.

I though the death magic was interesting and idk if this unknown magic will work for every dark ranger, but these chains you see sylvanas and mawsworn use could also be something the rest of the dark ranger can learn at the end of shsdowlands for example as a type of cc.

Potential races for a dark ranger class would be:
Blood elves
Forsaken
Night elves
Humans

I am also open to use the blood elf model in forsaken if we are talking sbout that.

[Vaedan]

I think as customination option it would work, but I rather see blizzard expand on the dark ranger fantasy.. its been 15 years of sylvanas and her dark rangers and I feel there is enough to pull from. They did this with demon hunters, who were a rogue/lock combination as argument for years, dark ranger imo are on the same boat and could potentially be more then just a skin.

I think the Dark Ranger concept actually have potential. Alongside Tinkers, it's actually the only class I can imagine to be added to the game. The problem is that Shadowlands seem to be the most perfect time to add this class to the game. Thanks to BfA, Dark Rangers could be opened to the Alliance as well thanks to night elves or perhaps even humans (in the same logic human DKs stick with the Alliance and not Forsaken) and whole class could have motivation to work more closely with both factions to redeem themselves in their eyes after Sylvanas' betrayal. Unfortunately, Blizz missed this opportunity.

I think it would be cool to vibe on the banshee part and add in a.couple of Sylvanas and Nathanos abillities.

I would also add Sylvanas toolkit from Heroes of the Storm. It could bring some ideas to the game as well, like her Banshee teleport ability, Cursed Dagger splash aoe ability, Withering Fire...

Ideas:
* smokey teleport like sylvanss ( build in fade spriest talent for a shorter period) this would feel like the sylvanas teleport in the bolvar cinematic where she was still able to dodge the massive rock)
* summon blight hound/spider ( think about dreadstalker type of skill)
*banshee form
( become a banshee for a short period of time)
Adds a couple of new abillities on your bar.
* inhabbit- mc type of skill ( but without the part your own character stand still to cast it) you actually dissapear into your target becoming him/her for a short period of time.
*banshee scream- short knockback/splash damage
* feint death could also have a diffent take where you leave your body for example.

I though the death magic was interesting and idk if this unknown magic will work for every dark ranger, but these chains you see sylvanas and mawsworn use could also be something the rest of the dark ranger can learn at the end of shsdowlands for example as a type of cc.

I can certainly imagine Dark Rangers as highly mobile ranged DPS class with CC in form of disorients (Charm spell? Different flavor of Mind Control), slows, silences/interrupts. It would definitely make use of stealth - stealthed ranged class is something we don't really have now, given hunters and mages can stay stay in their stealth/invisibility only for a limited time. Mobility through teleports, increased movement speed could work too. I'd perhaps stay away from pets to differentiate them from hunters and tbh, Sylvanas and most notable Dark Rangers did not have pets too. Maybe have time limited pets summoned by their spells for short time, like skeletons from Dark Arrow kills in WC3?

The question is if that is enough to make a class with 2 or 3 distinctive specs and unique gameplay. I can also potentialy imagine Dark Rangers having melee dual wield spec - maybe even tank spec based on avoidance and self heals (Dark Ranger had Drain Life skill in WC3). That's what I fear is the main downside of adding any new spec to the game.

Potential races for a dark ranger class would be:
Blood elves
Forsaken
Night elves
Humans

I am also open to use the blood elf model in forsaken if we are talking sbout that.

I might add void elves to the list too, since they used to be blood elves and we've seen void and death magic does not exclude each other.

[Alanar]

I think the Dark Ranger concept actually have potential. Alongside Tinkers, it's actually the only class I can imagine to be added to the game. The problem is that Shadowlands seem to be the most perfect time to add this class to the game. Thanks to BfA, Dark Rangers could be opened to the Alliance as well thanks to night elves or perhaps even humans (in the same logic human DKs stick with the Alliance and not Forsaken) and whole class could have motivation to work more closely with both factions to redeem themselves in their eyes after Sylvanas' betrayal. Unfortunately, Blizz missed this opportunity.


I would also add Sylvanas toolkit from Heroes of the Storm. It could bring some ideas to the game as well, like her Banshee teleport ability, Cursed Dagger splash aoe ability, Withering Fire...



I can certainly imagine Dark Rangers as highly mobile ranged DPS class with CC in form of disorients (Charm spell? Different flavor of Mind Control), slows, silences/interrupts. It would definitely make use of stealth - stealthed ranged class is something we don't really have now, given hunters and mages can stay stay in their stealth/invisibility only for a limited time. Mobility through teleports, increased movement speed could work too. I'd perhaps stay away from pets to differentiate them from hunters and tbh, Sylvanas and most notable Dark Rangers did not have pets too. Maybe have time limited pets summoned by their spells for short time, like skeletons from Dark Arrow kills in WC3?

The question is if that is enough to make a class with 2 or 3 distinctive specs and unique gameplay. I can also potentialy imagine Dark Rangers having melee dual wield spec - maybe even tank spec based on avoidance and self heals (Dark Ranger had Drain Life skill in WC3). That's what I fear is the main downside of adding any new spec to the game.



I might add void elves to the list too, since they used to be blood elves and we've seen void and death magic does not exclude each other.

Cool, thanks for the reply.

I agree they should stay away from permanent pets, it wouldnt fit their style as much. I was also thinking like 15 sec duration pets, maybe add a short duration buff to the dark ranger in the form of utillity for example or short burst idk could be anything.

The pets came from 2 ingame momemts, one are those dark rangers in southshore who walk with spiders and secondly was Nathanos using the blight hounds.

In terms of specs.. hard one. It could have 2 specs, but This would need more research.. I forgot about the drain life skill. Good point tho. I tried to do it 50/50 in horde/alliance races. I am still not sure what void does with death and vice versa, I thought those two didnt go hand in hand. Void elves for some reason feel like a forced pick and I wouldnt see them as dark rangers realy. They almost feel like the opposite, but maybe Iam missing something here. Night elves are interesting indeed, afther darkshore many are unemployed.. need new goals.. in makes sense.


Edit: missed the HotS bit, I am unfamiliar with her toolkit. But yes any source that include dark ranger with wow are potential sources for unique abillities. Sounds cool tho.

I would be quite content if they managed to realy fewl like a banshee for a short period and take over a body. Animation wise this would look super cool.

[Vaedan]

Cool, thanks for the reply.

I agree they should stay away from permanent pets, it wouldnt fit their style as much. I was also thinking like 15 sec duration pets, maybe add a short duration buff to the dark ranger in the form of utillity for example or short burst idk could be anything.

The pets came from 2 ingame momemts, one are those dark rangers in southshore who walk with spiders and secondly was Nathanos using the blight hounds.

Yes, short timed summons can fit several niches, like taunting enemies (similar to boomkin treants), reduce income damage (like reworked mirror images on mage).

In terms of specs.. hard one. It could have 2 specs, but This would need more research.. I forgot about the drain life skill. Good point tho. I tried to do it 50/50 in horde/alliance races. I am still not sure what void does with death and vice versa, I thought those two didnt go hand in hand. Void elves for some reason feel like a forced pick and I wouldnt see them as dark rangers realy. They almost feel like the opposite, but maybr nI am missing something here.

Well, void elf death knights showed that void and death combination is actually viable. Right now, void seem to have violent interaction only with Light, which is logical. As for me, I'd find void elves dark rangers more fitting then humans (Nathanos is actually one of the kind non elf dark ranger), but I guess both could work. TBH, there are people who are angry void elves don't have paladins, I can't really imagine the rage if void elves would not get dark rangers

[Alanar]

Yes, short timed summons can fit several niches, like taunting enemies (similar to boomkin treants), reduce income damage (like reworked mirror images on mage).



Well, void elf death knights showed that void and death combination is actually viable. Right now, void seem to have violent interaction only with Light, which is logical. As for me, I'd find void elves dark rangers more fitting then humans (Nathanos is actually one of the kind non elf dark ranger), but I guess both could work. TBH, there are people who are angry void elves don't have paladins, I can't really imagine the rage if void elves would not get dark rangers

Ouch hehe ye, if they will exclude them again the rage will not be contained!

True, I guess its because we are all so used to Nathanos being arround that we forget hes the only human dark ranger. Also weird considering the undead we can play used to be humans as well if we include forsaken then it wouldnt be so off. As for regular humans lets skip that and replace those with void elves.

Problem is.. it will be another elf heavy class which we had with demon hunters. Forsaken/ blood elves and night elves and humans kinda break that. I played it safe there

I think we are on the same line with pets luckily tho, I realy hate permanent pets in general so I want to try to stay away from that hunter niche as much as possible.

Another option would be to follow darkshore storyline and be it night elves and forsaken, but then we would still ask for undead elves with red eyes..

[paxen]

A Dark Ranger class would be very close to Death Knights conceptually, a dead hero resurrected as a banshee. Nearly all Dark Rangers would then be Blood Elves, but could be extended to all elves (void, night, nightborne) to give some options. But that would be the second hero class that's elf specific, so perhaps open it even more (humans+forsaken).

My preference would be an allied race, classes available: Hunter, Rogue, Priest.

[Alanar]

A Dark Ranger class would be very close to Death Knights conceptually, a dead hero resurrected as a banshee. Nearly all Dark Rangers would then be Blood Elves, but could be extended to all elves (void, night, nightborne) to give some options. But that would be the second hero class that's elf specific, so perhaps open it even more (humans+forsaken).

My preference would be an allied race, classes available: Hunter, Rogue, Priest.

The big difference between the two is that a dark ranger is a banshee who got back in their body and a death knight is directly risen as your race( could be anything now)

They are knights and a dark ranger doesnt have the same powers as a death knight. If you would say necromancer and death knight then I would agree with feeling the same in a way.

But since darkshore that line is even thinner since we saw Valkyr ress night elves instantly and become a dark ranger and not a death knight. They were also mind controlled for some reason.. so its quite vague atm.