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  1. #21
    Bloodsail Admiral Skylarking's Avatar
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    I somewhat recall before with corruptions that people would just be declined from groups if they didn't have certain types of corruption. Instead what happened was the usual, higher item level > anything else lol.

    You can be rest assured that as long as you have higher item level over the others you will get into groups.

  2. #22
    Step 1.

    Find a guild of people you like to raid with and whom conform to the same ideas you have

    step 2.

    Profit???

    I raid with a guild who raids once a week and clears heroic pretty fast. We have a few friend guilds who we then often "pug" mythic with and often get it done before the next raid is out. The people we play with know what buttons to press and generally dont stand too much in fire. On the other hand noone gives a shit if you play firemage or survival hunter as long as you pull your own weight. We already agreed at the blizzcon where they announced covenants that people should play whatever covenant they want to play as long as they can pull their own weight as per usual.

    Yes - these guilds exist. And i bet we arent the only one.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Skylarking View Post
    I somewhat recall before with corruptions that people would just be declined from groups if they didn't have certain types of corruption. Instead what happened was the usual, higher item level > anything else lol.

    You can be rest assured that as long as you have higher item level over the others you will get into groups.
    Granted i havent been doing 20+ dungeons i have done mostly 15-19'. I've never seen anyone get dropped because he didnt have the right corruptions.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by ymirsson View Post
    Because you can't possibly do challenging content unless you choose all the supposed best choices?
    People in singleplayer games : "I will gimp myself to find a challenge! "
    People in multiplayer games : "I will optimize myself to find a challenge. "

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    That list fails to mention how very minor the differences are.

    For DK as example: kyrian, venthyr and night fae are super close.
    Yeah like if it's a minimal difference it really only impacts world first raiders.

  5. #25
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantazma View Post
    I don't want to see my rogue rejected in all raids because I didn't choose a covenant that only matches the paladins ..!
    To me this is just hyperbole. And I am not attacking you - I am attacking this statement that I see over an over again.

    Not saying that it doesn't happen, but how does it work when half the people here in polls and class forums say they will chose based on lore and aesthetics? Are we saying those folks don't raid?

    Are you saying everyone is in a guild that put such immense pressure on them that they can't play their character freely? If that is so, they forced you to grind AP and play the specc they want you to play, not the specc you want to play. Hell...if your guild forces you into a covenant, they probably even force you into a CLASS?

    And you are okay with that? Letting others dictate how you enjoy WoW?

    This narrative creates a world where apparently 4 out of 5 people in every given 5 man are optimal and you are the one guy who isn't so they chose somebody else.

    So before covenants, I guess we got

    "I have the wrong class, nobody takes me to raids"
    "I have the wrong specc, nobody takes me to raids"
    "I have the wrong talents, nobody takes me to raids"
    "I don't have enough AP, nobody takes me to raids"
    "I rode a shop mount, nobody takes me to raids"

    and now you can force yourself into the "right" covenant - but still be "the wrong class" or "the wrong specc" and "nobody will take you to raids"

    But hey...you can always create your OWN raids and take all the people who are in the same boat. Because judging by posts here, there are TONS of people who are afraid to not be taken to raids AND want to play the specc, class, covenant that they like.

    As I said, yes...I think this happens..but at what level? The top 100 chasing world First? The folks pushing +20 keys? PvP teams that shoot for 2400+? Or your average guild that takes 3 weeks to clear normal raids, then 8 weeks for heroics and never gets a mythic boss down?

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    This list is nice, but what I would really like to see is what the difference is between each covenant regarding output on the same spec.

    It's nice that someone says "The best for Fury is Venthyr", it might even be the case.
    But best by how much?
    2%? 5%? 10%?
    This is what really matters. I don't think Blizzard would allow one class to be basically unplayable in anything but one covenant.
    The article in question was made for people whose thinking isn't that in depth.

    To those people, anything less than the statistical best isn't viable. Even when the statistical best is only so if you're extraordinarily lucky or being allowed to ignore every mechanic.

  7. #27
    From what I heard Kyrian is better than the rest because of one Soulbind(Pelagos I think). Expect it to be nerfed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skylarking View Post
    I somewhat recall before with corruptions that people would just be declined from groups if they didn't have certain types of corruption. Instead what happened was the usual, higher item level > anything else lol.

    You can be rest assured that as long as you have higher item level over the others you will get into groups.
    Yep, always been the criteria. Class/ilvl/achievement has always been the thing group leaders have been looking for. I've yet to see one leader in Legion/BfA that has had bis stuff as requirement to get into the group.

    No one asked if we had bis essence, bis corruption, max traits in Artifact Weapon or BiS leggos. And I do pug a lot.
    Last edited by Doffen; 2020-11-04 at 07:47 AM.
    Lying about being a CE raider and claim the 10 last Cutting Edge's while buying all of them must be the saddest thing on these forums.

    Apparently exposing liars is NOT okay.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    As I said, yes...I think this happens..but at what level? The top 100 chasing world First? The folks pushing +20 keys? PvP teams that shoot for 2400+? Or your average guild that takes 3 weeks to clear normal raids, then 8 weeks for heroics and never gets a mythic boss down?
    I've been saying for years that the meta only matters to a grand total of about 5000 people. Everyone else could be better served by putting in more effort.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaetha View Post
    I've been saying for years that the meta only matters to a grand total of about 5000 people. Everyone else could be better served by putting in more effort.
    True to an extent, but you can't undervalue optimization too much. If someone can get 5-10% extra out of their character by honing their rotation then that's great, but leaving 5-10% on the table from suboptimal choices is basically free damage.

  10. #30
    Bloodsail Admiral Skylarking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    From what I heard Kyrian is better than the rest because of one Soulbind(Pelagos I think). Expect it to be nerfed.


    Yep, always been the criteria. Class/ilvl/achievement has always been the thing group leaders have been looking for. I've yet to see one leader in Legion/BfA that has had bis stuff as requirement to get into the group.

    No one asked if we had bis essence, bis corruption, max traits in Artifact Weapon or BiS leggos. And I do pug a lot.
    Right pretty much. As usual forums and websites make it seem like its the end of the world as they thought with corruptions but in the end no one gave a shit. I had alts with better corruption allocation and capable of higher dps than the ones with higher item level, and still i get invited into groups every time with higher item level, even with legion when legendary items were the doom and gloom.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Toybox View Post
    True to an extent, but you can't undervalue optimization too much. If someone can get 5-10% extra out of their character by honing their rotation then that's great, but leaving 5-10% on the table from suboptimal choices is basically free damage.
    Yes, but you're almost always leaving much more on the table by playing something you don't like. People that don't like something usually aren't going to perform as well for multiple reasons.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    So before covenants, I guess we got

    "I have the wrong class, nobody takes me to raids"
    "I have the wrong specc, nobody takes me to raids"
    "I have the wrong talents, nobody takes me to raids"
    "I don't have enough AP, nobody takes me to raids"
    "I rode a shop mount, nobody takes me to raids"
    As much as I hate the whole "Minmax your covenant or else you won't get invited anywhere" debacle, this is just true. It is nothing we haven't had before.
    Same shit different day I guess.

  13. #33
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaetha View Post
    I've been saying for years that the meta only matters to a grand total of about 5000 people. Everyone else could be better served by putting in more effort.
    Yeah...unless I see an unbiased video or essay on the complexity of covenants and soulbinds and how one just stands out and shines in a gamebreaking OP way, I believe you are right.

    Don't get me wrong, I am sure Limit or Method or so will find crazy ways to push themselves - there always were people who did insane stuff. And just because there is that one guy who can solo a +22 mythic does not prove his covenant choice is what made it possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Mommy View Post
    As much as I hate the whole "Minmax your covenant or else you won't get invited anywhere" debacle, this is just true. It is nothing we haven't had before.
    Same shit different day I guess.
    Well...used to be "Don't slack if you want to have your raid spot" - now it seems to have become "I am forced to by Blizzard".

    And no..I don't think "Minmax your covenant or else you won't get invited anywhere" is completely and absolutely true at all times. Not on the level of "anywhere" and definitely not for everyone. This is just what a few people want us to believe who think 300 regular posters and their own experience or behaviour represent a million raiders, pvpers and dungeon runners.

    Yes...as I said before - I am sure it happens in pre-made, listed, high mythic, high rated groups. But some groups had ridiculous requirements BEFORE covenants (and ppl complained here). Have AotC, have +15 cleared to get invited in a +5 etc.

    And again...if that annoys you so much...form your own group. But I guess I will then be confronted with how some people are just shy and timid and introvert and don't dare etc etc. So at some point I will just be "tough titties - sounds like a you-problem"

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaetha View Post
    Yes, but you're almost always leaving much more on the table by playing something you don't like. People that don't like something usually aren't going to perform as well for multiple reasons.
    This is an important and foten overlooked example.

    Obviously this does not go for world first raiders, but if you are a world first raider this isnt even a discussion for you.

    For everyone contemplating if they should choose the fotm covenant or the one they really want to play - choose the one you want to play

  15. #35
    Herald of the Titans msdos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunslayer View Post
    I play with friends Ive known for over 13 years in WoW. Those friends expect me to maximize my character as I also expect that from them. Instead of saying "play with friends" change that to "play with friends that dont do challenging content, or just dont care".
    There is no evidence that you even need to min/max to do challenging content. You're just blindly following high end Mythic raiders. If someone shows you a video of nothing but meme specs clearing Mythic Nyalotha and you don't change your point of view, something is wrong with you, not the other way around.

  16. #36
    Unless you're in a race to clear mythic fast who gives a shit tbh, just play what you want

  17. #37
    The thing many people are missing, is that this game isn't only raw theoretical dps. If you look into the comments by the guide writers, oftentimes they say covenants are rather close in power and it's the soulbinds that tip the scale. But they look at raw dps numbers. It's classic theorycrafting when a lot of the covenants powers is in their unquantifiable benefits.

    And for those classes/specs where the balance isn't close, there is still going to be big balance changes in the 6 weeks until mythic raid opens.

  18. #38
    Don't worry about the covenant, worry about the spec!
    Spec. always come first.
    Sorry for all feral druids, survivals and MM hunters, arcane mages, holy priests and so on... I do not regret discriminating you and I will continue to discriminate any other specs which just does not work in the content I do to the standard of which most of the specs can reach.

    So no, your covenant won't be deciding factor or "next AotC".

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Trend View Post
    It's not a lobby game, it's an MMO. Since 2004 you have had the same 3 options:
    So - I've got 0 options still, nothing really changes.

    WoW is primarily a solo game for me ... not much I can do about it.

    Going Arcane Mage Kyrian here, as a solo game - only me to please

    Due to COVID-19, Germany is running out of sausages and cheese.
    The government considers this to be the Wurst Käse scenario

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    So - I've got 0 options still, nothing really changes.

    WoW is primarily a solo game for me ... not much I can do about it.

    Going Arcane Mage Kyrian here, as a solo game - only me to please
    There's plenty you can do about it.

    Step one, find a guild.

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