Mandatory covenat is the new AOTC ??

[schwarzkopf]

Stop making feeble excuses.

I'm not making the feeble excuses, just can't find an autistic friendly guild ... they just want normal people in the guild.

I'm in a guild, and I'm the only one not in the raid group or invited to many things, it is the nature of things. I accept the crumbs I can get and move on - it is this way in real life, and this way in game.

[Fantazma]

Pre-release
It's only 3/5/7%
Just play with friends
I'm picking for RP reasons
It only matters to the 0.00000000000000001%

Post-release
WTF bros I just got kicked from a 10 for having the wrong covenant why is the community so toxic *emoji*

The most powerful truth I read in this entire topic.
TY.

[Tesshin83]

First. You would see this list even if the difference between percieved worst and best is 0.5%.

Secondly, as a raider myself in mythic raiding so many people think dps and hps is everthing. 90% of the time you fail to kill a boss in mythic environment is something to do with execution of boss mechanics and strategy. Not because someone failed to optimize their character.

You have gearcheck bosses but there is an expection for many mythic guilds to be able to kill those bosses undergeared.

In my guild that only requirement regards to covenant is to have a covenant. I could be in a mythic guild which require me to be a specific covenant I don't like. But why would I put myself into that position?

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The most powerful truth I read in this entire topic.
TY.

Well if you get kicked from a 10 because of a covenant choice then those that kicked you don't even understand how the game works.

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I'm not making the feeble excuses, just can't find an autistic friendly guild ... they just want normal people in the guild.

I'm in a guild, and I'm the only one not in the raid group or invited to many things, it is the nature of things. I accept the crumbs I can get and move on - it is this way in real life, and this way in game.

I am also autistic and I have a guild. I hope you find a permanent raid spot. Its not impossible. ������

[exochaft]

First. You would see this list even if the difference between percieved worst and best is 0.5%.

Secondly, as a raider myself in mythic raiding so many people think dps and hps is everthing. 90% of the time you fail to kill a boss in mythic environment is something to do with execution of boss mechanics and strategy. Not because someone failed to optimize their character.

You have gearcheck bosses but there is an expection for many mythic guilds to be able to kill those bosses undergeared.

In my guild that only requirement regards to covenant is to have a covenant. I could be in a mythic guild which require me to be a specific covenant I don't like. But why would I put myself into that position?

All the commotion about the power of covenant abilities from the viewpoint of this thread are those of the people who trap themselves in the 'meta' trends. These types of people always think the perceived meta is the one and only solution to content, all while not creating the meta nor understanding why the top tier players used the meta. The reality is that the meta tends to evolve from a comp/person specific environment where people's skill and preferences come into play to tackle content under the group's unique challenges. The simple version of what I just said is that the meta not only is uniquely tailored for the people who make it, but also that it doesn't necessarily mean it's the best for everyone.

Does this mean that the Covenants couldn't still be balanced better? No, there's still room for improvement. However, the difference generally will not matter as much as other factors, such as the skill/coordination of your group and adherence to mechanics and the raid strategy. Everyone's had that one person in their guild/raid that can pump out the numbers, but has a poor survival rate and/or constantly fails to do mechanics. They're the people who generally will not change a talent or sacrifice their personal damage output for the sake of the raid, worried about their maximum DPS output at the cost of defeating the encounter. Even the top tier guilds experience this, you can see some of the beta mythic raid testing where you have those individuals who constantly fail mechanics. When it comes to the world first race, more often than not if a healing/DPS check isn't the reason for the wipe, it's someone screwing up or not obeying mechanics. The difference between the top guilds and everyone else is that the collective skill and (more importantly) time investment is superior. The top guilds could probably beat the mythic end-bosses with any Covenant before the vast majority of players due to the amount of front-loaded time and skill, all while being undergeared.

So what does this mean for everyone else? The reality is that you could clear the most difficult content of the game with any covenant, and it'll come down to your preference in the end. While one choice may give you a slight edge over another in various content, the choice will likely pale in comparison to many other factors in determining your success in the game.

FYI, this is coming from someone whose preferred Covenant choice is likely the weakest of them all and hoping Blizz finally stops being stubborn and buff the ability to be good.

[Hinastorm]

Why can't they list the difference between them? Like this one is 1.2% better etc.

Most people won't really care about a 1-3% difference if it lets them pick what they want to pick.

This is my biggest problem with min-max culture. They do this all the time. Option 2 can be really really close, but they'll just leave that information out.

Because apparently everyone is a world first mythic racer. Sigh.

[Doffen]

From what I heard Kyrian is better than the rest because of one Soulbind(Pelagos I think). Expect it to be nerfed.

And it just got nerfed down to 4% vers instead of 5%. Lets see if thats enough. I like that they just don't nerf it with like 50% at once.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

Why can't they list the difference between them? Like this one is 1.2% better etc.

Most people won't really care about a 1-3% difference if it lets them pick what they want to pick.

This is my biggest problem with min-max culture. They do this all the time. Option 2 can be really really close, but they'll just leave that information out.

Because apparently everyone is a world first mythic racer. Sigh.

Because we don't know. The data isn't there yet, because there's too many variables and they change every week.

[callipygoustp]

I hear its going to replace Raider.io as well.

[schwarzkopf]

I am also autistic and I have a guild. I hope you find a permanent raid spot. Its not impossible. ������

Well - been trying for 15 years, and no luck so far. I figure that's a solid enough sample size to call it impossible.

[Hinastorm]

Because we don't know. The data isn't there yet, because there's too many variables and they change every week.

Are you saying that they're just guessing which ones are best? I'm confused.

I assumed they mathed it out, but decided to only list whats best.

[Swnem]

What i think is funny is how Kyrian was the worst covenant and they went around nerfing all others and now Kirian is BiS for almost everyone...

[AwkwardSquirtle]

Are you saying that they're just guessing which ones are best? I'm confused.

I assumed they mathed it out, but decided to only list whats best.

There's some data, but it's not a full analysis. There's too many variables. Some have obvious synergy and do a lot of damage, but soulbinds or legendaries or conduits may end up favouring one covenant in some environments.

[Swnem]

Why can't they list the difference between them? Like this one is 1.2% better etc.

Most people won't really care about a 1-3% difference if it lets them pick what they want to pick.

This is my biggest problem with min-max culture. They do this all the time. Option 2 can be really really close, but they'll just leave that information out.

Because apparently everyone is a world first mythic racer. Sigh.

Any respectable guide writer will show you the sims for all 4.
This is just a quick "cheat list", not full shadowlands guides.

[razorpax]

First. You would see this list even if the difference between percieved worst and best is 0.5%.

Secondly, as a raider myself in mythic raiding so many people think dps and hps is everthing. 90% of the time you fail to kill a boss in mythic environment is something to do with execution of boss mechanics and strategy. Not because someone failed to optimize their character.

You have gearcheck bosses but there is an expection for many mythic guilds to be able to kill those bosses undergeared.

In my guild that only requirement regards to covenant is to have a covenant. I could be in a mythic guild which require me to be a specific covenant I don't like. But why would I put myself into that position?

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Well if you get kicked from a 10 because of a covenant choice then those that kicked you don't even understand how the game works.

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I am also autistic and I have a guild. I hope you find a permanent raid spot. Its not impossible. ������

The only guilds that need to require specific ones are maybe top 100

The getting denied might be because of the covenant bonuses in dungeons

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Why can't they list the difference between them? Like this one is 1.2% better etc.

Most people won't really care about a 1-3% difference if it lets them pick what they want to pick.

This is my biggest problem with min-max culture. They do this all the time. Option 2 can be really really close, but they'll just leave that information out.

Because apparently everyone is a world first mythic racer. Sigh.

If you read the notes on the lists you will see some aren’t based on numbers but rather how it plays

For example in WW monk the mastery amp and damage boost is amazing with Pelagos leading to an extra 50% mastery which is 50% more damage on everything and it can line up with the other CDs

Venthyr is rng
NecroLord is short duration rng
Night fae got nerfed and is clunky to work in while not breaking mastery rotation

Now little jimmy will look at it and choose only the best based on that list while ignoring the giant disclaimer saying tuning isn’t done

[Xjan]

Well - been trying for 15 years, and no luck so far. I figure that's a solid enough sample size to call it impossible.

What are you major challenges in this context?

My guild is always recruiting - if you'd like to chat:

https://discord.gg/BDYR8H2 (Guild Discord)

or

Ivankov#2559 (discord)

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The most powerful truth I read in this entire topic.
TY.

That's not truth, that's a scenario that hasn't even occurred yet.

[T-34]

People have the right to demand what the hell they want when they make their groups.

If you can't fulfil their demands then you can either change your covenant/get better so you can get in such groups or you can make your own group where you can make your own demands.

It has always been like this, and not only in wow.
I mean my kid understood that when he was 8:
Either I get better at playing football, so I can play with the cool players or I have to play with the 2nd team.
Yes, many kids on the 2nd team are nice and loveable, but they can't kick, dribble, pass or anything at all.

In WoW like in real life you either do your best to be one that others will pick or you become your own alpha and pick others or accept that you are 2nd rate.

[Trend]

I play with friends Ive known for over 13 years in WoW. Those friends expect me to maximize my character as I also expect that from them. Instead of saying "play with friends" change that to "play with friends that dont do challenging content, or just dont care".

#1. Does not sound so much like you have friends as you have contractual relationships. If you're truly friends either they won't care or you will naturally gravitate towards the choices that contribute to shared objectives. Very different than the whiney nature of this thread in either case.

#2. So you're doing challenging content now? Last I heard you haven't been playing the game in years. Maybe you chose a group poorly when you started back up? Do your "friends" also demand that you play a certain race for the 0.5% gain? Would be surprised if you're an early CE guy because those types of players don't tend to skip whole expansions.

I stand by what I said. Thanks for the advice though.

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I'm not making the feeble excuses, just can't find an autistic friendly guild ... they just want normal people in the guild.

I'm in a guild, and I'm the only one not in the raid group or invited to many things, it is the nature of things. I accept the crumbs I can get and move on - it is this way in real life, and this way in game.

Truly sorry you have had that experience and you feel that way. There are cool groups out there which are very open and accepting. Finding the right fit is hard for almost anyone, and it may be even harder for you, but I would encourage you not to give up.

[schwarzkopf]

What are you major challenges in this context?

Generally using discord is a challenge as I speak literally not socially, generally someone will get offended at some point.
I can't tank or heal, and there are one or two raid mechanics I cannot do (generally vehicle type stuff).

Oh - and I need Oceanic guild for latency.

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but I would encourage you not to give up.

I have given up, I'm not really welcome in my current guild - but they let me stay and feed on the scraps, which is better than nothing.

[Oneirophobia]

While this is one issue, the next one will be when people unlock higher levels of renown and their bis covenant changes. So at that point in order to maximize your dps/performance you will have to ditch your entire progress with your original covenant to switch to another from scratch.

Not to mention balance changes on a per-patch, even per-hotfix occasion. What's "infinite stars!" today may be "infinite stars..?" tomorrow.

[Wadrak]

Unless the result effectivness is huge like 5% difference Im going to choose covenant which
suits my gamestyle the most.

I like to min max but If I dont like something Im not gonna choose it. So I will make compromise.

For example character race. I like to play humans and similar characters like void elves, blood elves, trolls etc ..
I couldnt play dwarves, goblins, gnomes etc even if they offer some better effectivness.

I just cant spend hundreds of hours doing something if I dont like it.

Not to mention that choosing number two conevant might be the best choice because number one may get nerfed anyway.